Drama Mamas: The case of the gold-selling guildie

I received the gift of massive drama for the holidays, which is why we went on an unscheduled hiatus. But that hiatus ends now. The promised roundup post will be next week, which means there is still time to get us the results of a letter we answered should you wish to be included. Just drop us an email at DramaMamas@wowinsider.com.
In the meantime, we have what this week's letter writer calls a "dilly of a pickle."
Dear Drama Mamas,
I have a situation in my guild that I could use your advice on. I am a senior officer in my guild, and some troubling news came to my attention a few days ago. It seems that one of my guild members is selling gold in real life. He's been using guildies' cool downs and the other guildies' professions to make items to sell on the AH. Originally, I thought it was to make items for himself, but that turned out to be false. The dilemma is that he's been in the guild for a while. He was an original member, then left, and came back about 4 months back. The other thing is that he's not selling the gold on a website. He's selling it to his real life friends because he's on work disability and his disability money will not allow him to play WoW, so he supplements his income by selling his WoW gold.
Thank you.
There are plenty of reasons this situation stinks:
- It sounds as if the guildies whose cooldowns and crafting time are being used may be in the dark about what their efforts are actually funding.
- It wouldn't be hard to raise $15/month. Where's the extra money going, and how does your disabled guildie rationalize that part of the equation?
- You have a guild to run, and encouraging anything sheisty is extremely counterproductive to the health of the guild.
- How long is this gonna go on, anyway?
Taking advantage of your guildmates for profit is downright sleazy. Even if they're aware and willing, selling gold is against the game's Terms of Service. And then you have the feelings of anyone who's participating but perhaps reluctantly, or anyone who's heard about it and disapproves. Don't condone this; it's a time bomb of anger waiting to blow up in your face.
Game time's cheap. If this guy's earned the kind of real-life guild rep and loyalty you seem to feel is there, why not just make an effort to round up some game cards for the guy?
- My first reaction: Eep! He's disabled! Does that make this okay?
- My second reaction: "Work disability" = short-term disability = he's recovering from an injury or illness and most likely has his job and a return to prosperity to look forward to in the very near future.
- My next reaction: It's only 15 bucks a month.
- My final reaction: Even if he is disabled for life, it still doesn't make it right to abandon ethics and morals.
Of course, if we misinterpreted the letter and the guildies are consenting to have their cooldowns used for his profit, it does change things a bit. If he's been up front about that, he's not really harming the guild with his abuse of the Terms of Service. I'm not saying you should condone the gold selling, but if he's just selling it to friends and not supporting the hacking sites -- well, he's really only causing his account potential harm. I would still ask him to stop or leave the guild, but you're not really going to be able to prove he stopped if he stays. It really doesn't sound like he has the guildies' consent, however.
Justice is really the best way to prevent drama in a guild. And injustice (perceived or real) is the best way to cause it. I'm all for taking a collection for the guy (in game cards as Lisa suggests, not cash). But separately, I think he has to be given the ultimatum to stop both the exploiting and the goldselling, or he will need to leave the guild.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 7)
Tim Jan 15th 2011 1:47AM
I think a virtual INTERVENTION is in order.
Cataca Jan 14th 2011 3:17PM
I have to say that if a friend of mine offered to pay wow for me at the cost of 1.5k gold a month or so, I'd do it. But I do think that using guild resources to acquire that gold is taking it too far and should be put to a stop.
I don't care if two friends work out a deal to pay for wow but use your own resources.
Noyou Jan 14th 2011 3:52PM
I have to say this issue is a bit in the grey area. I don't see it as black and white. Yes selling gold is not good. But- if he's not hacking or scamming other people then I don't have a problem with it. However- taking from the guild to profit for himself- that I have a problem with. Even if it's just bothering guildies for CD's that's taking from their own time to benefit himself. I would say tell it to him like this- what you do with your own gold is up to you- but I would restrict what he can take from the guild and make sure he doesn't nag people for mats/CD's. If he can't comply with that, or get's pissy about it- Bon voyage MF. Hope that helps. Good luck.
Kylenne Jan 14th 2011 3:57PM
This, pretty much. That's sort of in the same category to me as taking epics/pricey mats that are meant for people to use from the gbank and selling them for personal gain. Lying and taking advantage of guildie generosity is a shitty thing to do, and that's where I have to draw the line.
Stories like this are when I'm reminded of why I score Chaotic Good on so many of those "what alignment are you?" quizzes, though.
kutterr88 Jan 14th 2011 4:42PM
@Noyou
You hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
Nessie Jan 15th 2011 10:51AM
This exactly. The only problem I see in this situation is using his guildies CD's if they aren't aware that they're being used to make gold and not for his own stuff. This should be addressed, otherwise, I say leave it alone.
CyberNigma Jan 14th 2011 3:21PM
Point him/her to EVE Online. You can actually play EVE full time and earn game time within the game. This may be a good choice to keep him occupied until his disability ends or he finds another means of income. That's really the best option. There he wouldn't be breaking the ToS and would have a means in-game to earn playtime. Maybe he has enough surplus for the initial game and playtime or maybe someone could help him.
The current option isn't that great as he's breaking the ToS as well as causing him to do something unethical like abusing guild mates (in a game where that is not expected to be the norm).
In fact, other options may be things like Second Life where he can use his available skills to actually bring in some extra cash without breaking the rules and without cheating friends. I know there are others out there. WoW isn't really built like that, though, so it may not be a good idea to stay - as he risks losing everything in-game, including the game account.
Cataca Jan 14th 2011 3:29PM
Anytime I think of EVE and their game time system I think of this http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/08/08/eve-player-destroys-over-1000-worth-of-game-time/
CyberNigma Jan 14th 2011 3:43PM
@Cataca
lol, yeah I know what you mean. However, keep in mind the results of stupidity only escalate the less a game protects you. In EVE, stupidity like that player exhibited can only mean one thing - Really Bad Things(tm)...
Tim Jan 15th 2011 1:54AM
You know, with the whole cooldowns thing. I saw lots of folks in Dalaran selling their cooldowns for gold. I didn't hear or see a post saying anything about it. Maybe the guildmates were selling the CD's to the guy and he was taking the items made and selling them?
JT Jan 15th 2011 10:47AM
I'd totally support WoW moving to an EVE-like pay-as-you-play system.
JorritMarcus Jan 14th 2011 3:31PM
Whoa, pretty hard to take a side on this one. Still I'd go with the health of the Guild and at least talk to him about it. Know that if Blizzard finds out the whole Guild might be temporary banned for investigation, it happened once to a friend of mine.
Still, awesome post on how to handle this. Kudo's :)
~Arphalas
llaw_grimm Jan 14th 2011 3:21PM
End of the Day, its against the ToS. As a Officer of a Guild in Said World of Warcraft, You would be considered Guilty by assosciation. No excuse to Sit on disability AND goldsell. Being on disability your not supposed to be making profit... so One RL illegal and 1 Ingame Illegal. Go Figure....
If you cant afford to pay for you expenses in real life, warcraft should REALLLY take the back burner, no?
Gimmlette Jan 14th 2011 3:56PM
I agree with the last statement. If he's selling gold for real cash so he can play wow because his disability doesn't cover his costs, he probably needs to take a look at what he spends his money on. WOW isn't a need, although those of us who are ardent players can feel it is. Unlike food, you don't HAVE to pay for it and your quality of life doesn't go down. (Really, it doesn't, although it can feel like it.) But, it's not really your place to tell him on what to spend his money.
I also agree that if you wouldn't tolerate this from a toon whom you don't know in real life, you shouldn't tolerate it from someone you do know. Guild members will sniff out favoritism before the pain dries and you'll lose their respect and maybe their toons if they leave the guild because of this.
Maybe you need to gather those who know him and of this scheme, or even if they don't, and have a talk with him. What's the problem? Why doesn't his money cover expenses? Tell him you can't tolerate this within the guild and he will have to stop or leave. If he promises to stop or if he leaves, your guild needs to make a statement saying they will not tolerate gold sellers or some other generally worded comment. Then, it's clear that anyone, not just your friend, can be kicked if they violate this.
I think reporting him to Blizzard should be part of your bargaining chip. Realize that you'll probably lose his friendship if you report him, but what's worse, a friend who thinks Terms of Service don't apply to him because he has 'extenuating circumstances' or your conscience of tolerating this? Only you can answer that.
I had a close friend decide to quit the game. Before he left, he told me he was going to eBay his toons. I told him that was against the ToS. He laughed and said Blizzard wouldn't catch him. I told him that if his toon showed up and I determined that it wasn't him, I would report the toon as being sold. He was furious with me and said I had no right to tell him how to dispose of his toons. I stood my ground and we are no longer friends.
Who cares? Well, I do. Each time someone sells gold or a toon or violates the ToS or EULA, it takes a chink out of the armor. I feel that, down the road, if enough people are selling gold or toons, we could see changes to how we are allowed to access this game. Was it worth it? Actually, I guess we weren't that close to break our friendship over a game. And now, almost 2 years after he left, I haven't missed him in game. I miss the conversations outside of game, but not in game. Would I do it again? Yes. I just feel strongly that if I play this game, I abide by the ToS and if I know you're breaking that, I will report you. That's me.
adamjgp Jan 14th 2011 4:20PM
"Unlike food, you don't HAVE to pay for it and your quality of life doesn't go down."
Sounds like you're saying that not playing WoW will not cause your quality of life to drop (Playing WoW does not increase your quality of life).
To generalize your quote here, let's replace WoW with hobby/passtime. Are you saying that not having access to a hobby/passtime does not impact your quality of life? The natural extension is to say that any hobby/passtime does not impact the quality of your life, therefor only necessities impact your quality of life.
Following this argument to its conclusion, we find that most humans have an equal quality of life, because we have food, water, and shelter, the necessities for survival. That means that you're claiming that Americans and Mexicans have the same quality of life, because both groups of people have food, water, and shelter. The access to higher quality cars, electronics, etc. is moot because they do not improve your quality of life.
Is this what you meant?
JKWood Jan 14th 2011 4:55PM
@adamjgb: You're violating Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs there.
If someone were to spend food money on things that were qualitatively not food (beer, cigarettes, drugs, WoW game cards, gasoline, lottery tickets, model cars, football tickets, video games, rare stamps, etc), they would be acting against their own self-interest. Do all those things have value and add to our quality of life? With the exception of lottery tickets, cigarettes, and drugs (and the beer, depending on who you ask), yes, they do. Would that make it okay to spend food money on them? No, it wouldn't. If you don't eat, you die. If you don't buy gas, you ride the bus to work or walk.
This is all a matter of simple economics - opportunity cost, to be specific. With limited amounts of a resource (money), we have to carefully decide what we will use that resource for. If you make just enough money to put food on the table, keep a roof over your head, and keep your water and lights on, then you can survive and even have a decent quality of life (books and videos from the public library, free concerts at local churches or schools, ultimate frisbee at the park.) Any money beyond that is discretionary - you choose what you want to buy. If you don't have enough money for those basic things, you cut back on consumption, change your spending habits within those categories, and/or deliver pizzas at night.
restodr00d Jan 14th 2011 6:35PM
If you cant afford to pay for you expenses in real life, warcraft should REALLLY take the back burner, no?
As a WoW addict I approve this, really I do, I lost my job but i had enough money to keep playing and living however it seems that reality finally struck me and I just can't keep playing anymore, I will miss Azeroth and the people I have meet in the fantastic world Blizzard created, but now that I can't actually pay it, I will put it aside get my act together and when everything gets better I'll paly again but beginning on Sunday my connection with Azeroth will be alive thru't this amazing Blog.
PD
Sorry typos or grammar, english is not my first language.
Guy Jan 14th 2011 3:28PM
This is why I think it would be nice if Blizz offered some sort of ingame purchase of game time. Make it something only the most dedicated crafters, gatherers would accomplish. Maybe 15k or something.
Matthew Jan 14th 2011 4:02PM
I think the reason they wont do that is because they can't make money from it - though it is a good idea for the cameraderie of it.
Noyou Jan 14th 2011 4:05PM
Blizzard isn't going to allow anyone to play for free unless they are getting something back. I don't think any amount of WoW gold will change that. Now if you bring in 1-2 new subscriptions a month, that would allow you to play for free. If creating money just to play wow was the issue i'm sure there would be something he or anyone can do IRL to raise the money to play wow. I'm thinking- and I don't want to read too much into this here- this guy is making a little more than $15-30 a month selling gold. And that's where things get murky.