Jane McGonigal on why gamers will change the world, page 2
We asked psychologist and games researcher John Hopson where designers should draw the line when designing a game that players want to play by "tricking" players into becoming "hooked". According to Hopson, he thinks the line comes when the reward mechanisms are unrelated to the game design. "Every game has something players find rewarding, otherwise you wouldn't play it," he said. "There's no way to make a fun game that doesn't have a reward mechanism of some kind. The point of my work is to help designers understand the impact of their design choices so that they can choose mechanisms that are consistent with their overall vision for the game. If the game is intended as a deep, immersive experience, the designer needs to choose reward mechanisms that encourage that style of play. If it's a casual game played in short bursts, the rewards should reflect that. Think of it like cooking. It's perfectly ethical for a chef to tweak the levels of various ingredients in their recipe to make it taste better. It's not ethical to add in some other chemical purely to cause cravings."
Do you think that WoW and other popular MMOs are hitting that balance? Do you think that they're hitting the best combination of motivations, the deep-seated ones that cause players to respond to the game and each other in positive rather than negative ways?
What I'm seeing now -- we're calling it a "secret world headquarters for world-changing game developers" – is called Gameful. The whole point of Gameful is can you make something that has a positive impact either on someone's real life or on a real problem that we're trying to solve. We define "positive impact" in four different ways:
- One is you're just increasing positive emotions. Does somebody feel better after they've engaged with what you've made? And do those feeling sort of trickle into their everyday life, kind of lifting them up?
- Does the game improve some kind of a relationship? A relationship with a family member or a neighbor or a coworker? That's something we can measure.
- Does the game give you a sense of accomplishment that matters -- not just that we got you to work hard and earn some totally vacuous, meaningless achievement badge, but that it matters to you? It was a goal that you set for yourself and that has some intrinsic meaning to you.
- And then also, are you being of service to a larger cause? Some project that matters beyond our individual lives or even our individual communities -- hopefully at a planetary scale.
So whatever you're making should be trying to have a positive impact on at least one of those four levels, and ideally, all four. To me, that's how you know you're being really "Gameful," by going for those four criteria and having a positive impact.
There are really cynical people who could exploit games to get people to do really trivial, Mechanical Turk-style work or to buy stuff or to look at ads; that's kind of cynical and exploitative. You should start with a positive impact and work your way back from that to see how game mechanics can support you. And I think gamers are smart enough to not get tricked, because they can always play a real game, you know? They don't have to play your game-ified game; they can play a game that was made just for entertainment. And that will give them all of those positive emotions and sense of accomplishment and relationships and meaning. So unless your game-ified project has all of that plus the added benefit of doing something real, then you will lose.
So are games like World of Warcraft helping people becoming more open to being guided in a positive way?
I think one of the big things that's different, especially for a generation that grew up with MMOs, is this sense of being ready to rise to the occasion, of having a kind of radar for heroic opportunity. There's still too big a gap between being of real heroic service in a lot of cases and being of heroic service in a virtual world -- one is vastly easier with lower risk.
But we're starting to see networks and projects that bridge that gap. I love the Ushahidi project, in which during a crisis like the Haiti earthquake, you can have people online working through text messages from people who were trapped or people who were out of water or needed medical attention, and you could help translate them, help put them on maps, help verify them, help get them connected to first responders on the scene ... And you could do that online, from anywhere in the world. And it was relatively low-risk, but really freaking important. I mean, you could save a life, right?
And I know that the developers of Ushahidi are very interested in working with games like World of Warcraft to say, "The next time there's a disaster somewhere, let's put some Ushahidi missions in the game. Let's get WoW players on Ushahidi and connect it somehow to what they're doing. Let it be in game with in-game rewards. But give them a chance to do something that has that added bonus of really saving a life, right?
My hope for the future is we're going to see that gamers are trained to rise to the occasion.
One of the other great examples: seeing the investigate your MP expenses, in the U.K., and gamers rise to the occasion of investigating political corruption. You know, a lot of that work was very Mechanical Turk-style. You had to transcribe text that was in an image form, you had to verify numbers, adding up, very kind of boring, tedious work.
But because it had a real purpose -- you know, trying to ferret out political investigation, and you could actually investigate the MP who was from your district -- it was totally inspiring and had a real purpose. Gamers were able to do that and effectively bring attention to corrupt politicians who had to resign, and they got new legislation put in place as a result of these investigations. That's a big deal.
And you're seeing gamers work in games like Fold It and this new game, Eterna. You're actually working to cure cancer in a non-trivial way, where scientists are going to synthesize in a lab real RNA that you've designed in the game in this virtual modeling environment. They're going to make real versions of the RNA to test to see if it could help with curing cancer.
These are real things that I think MMOs are helping gamers feel like they're ready for that, to rise to that occasion, to do that thing online that could actually save the world for real.
Read Part 2 of our interview: McGonigal on why you're as awesome in real life as in WoW







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
nomoremisterniceguy Jan 26th 2011 4:45PM
I stoped the video at the part where she began talking about how we like to work hard as gamers. I don't like it that much, but if I want to keep up with the Joneses on line then i have to work my ass off.
Rakah Jan 26th 2011 4:48PM
Wasn't this posted here ages ago? if not i honestly can't remeber where i saw it.
Saeadame Jan 26th 2011 6:23PM
There was a post about her video on TED a while ago, but not a 15 minutes of fame article.
Rakah Jan 27th 2011 4:27AM
ahh that will be where i saw it.
Deathknighty Jan 26th 2011 5:01PM
This...wasn't quite what I was expecting from the first paragraph, but nevertheless and interesting read. Personally, I think this seems a little bit what I call "optimism for optimism's sake", which, though not inherently bad, tends almost universally to lead to failed ambitions.
But good luck all the same. Looks like a noble goal. ;)
lesicor.caerlon Jan 26th 2011 5:21PM
The fact that she's shown results already with programs she's created seems to me that it's not just "optimism for optimism's sake".
My jaw hits the floor every time I see one of these videos from Ted.com. This "outside of the box" thinking is what has driven the human species for so many years. The fact that Galileo believed that our solar system revolved around the sun, and not the Earth, was met by extreme criticism, but he was correct.
So while there will always be the pessimists and those who search only for answers which reside within their narrow confines of thought, there will also be those people, like Galileo, or now you could even say Jane McGonigal, who search for answers where the general populace haven't cared to look.
I'll definitely be looking forward to seeing how any of this work turns out!
Tim Jan 26th 2011 9:31PM
There are a couple interesting articles about false positives and declining positives effects, especially in relation to medication.
Basically, the first back of testing shows high correlation with the results the studiers want to find. Then, as time passes, the correlation effect switches from a high result to a low result. Why?
Because when a study doesn't show a correlation to what the research team is looking for, it is discarded. Often, not reported at all. It's unimportant because it didn't prove what they wanted. So when a study does show something new, then it becomes groundbreaking and exciting for a while.
Until it becomes established fact.
Then the studies that prove it wrong are published, pushing it the other way. Meanwhile, studies that prove it right during this time are ignored or go unpublished because they don't report anything new.
Or, in other words, a few positive results could mean that it is working. Or it could mean that all the negative results are being ignored. It could mean testing bias, conscious or unconscious. Or a lot of other things :)
Being skeptical is good. Being rude is bad. And not accepting everything someone says *including me* just because they said it, is also good.
StalloneFernandes Jan 26th 2011 5:38PM
Wonderful.
rhorle Jan 26th 2011 5:38PM
After sitting through trade chat, I highly doubt having wow gamers sort through text messages that could mean life or death for some one in the real world. Somehow I don't see the benifit other then "advertisement" for whatever cause.
Yes I don't trust some people that play wow to actually be serious or be mature, shocker isn't it?
lesicor.caerlon Jan 26th 2011 5:55PM
Who ever said that you would only get a listing of text messages to work with and that was all?
What if there was a quest in-game which dynamically changed with the text message list, offering you a random message from it, and that quest was to determine the location that person was at, and then go to X mob and report that location, which was then sent to the local search and rescue workers? By completing the task successfully, you'd be rewarded in-game with something after the location was verified.
It'd be similar to the daily quests we have currently, where they are somewhat random (albeit from a small pool of options), and are verifiable (JC quests to actually cut specific gems while you have the quest, not just buy them off AH or hoard a bunch).
If players report inaccurate information, they would not receive the reward in-game, and therefore, would waste their time. People nowadays in WoW do not go on quests they know with 100% certainty they will fail, right? (such as taking on that level ?? elite mob on your level 1 mage)
In essence, those "immature trade trolls" still do quests to level up, they still work with others to run dungeons to get the loot. They may troll trade chat when they are bored because it gets a rise out of people, but at the end of the day, they will work beside you to knock down some raid bosses.
kunukia Jan 26th 2011 5:46PM
Excellent.
I look forward to next weeks post.
Raventiger Jan 26th 2011 6:17PM
What an amazing lady. I've watched the first two videos, and I have to confess, the first few moments of the first video I thought she was crazy. But the more I listened, read, and watched, the more she made sense. Another thing that impresses me is that she practices what she preaches as demonstrated by the second video. I'm really looking forward to reading next week's article.
Aaron Jan 27th 2011 6:51AM
Gaming will only be an asset if the type of games we see and are playing on a mass scale change to be far more focused on ethical problem solving and personal, transformative development. I see a serious lack of games that combine both extreme action, strategy AND a real world educational value. That is the formula i think we need for games to truly be as effective as she says they can be, and the type of games she mentioned developing are on the right track!
WanderingNomad Jan 27th 2011 9:26AM
Absolutely _excellent_ read....eye opener and brain candy.....thanks! =)
Nathanyel Jan 27th 2011 10:42AM
Not to be a nitpicker, but the essence of these thoughts is "make work/duties feel more interesting/rewarding". I'd see games more as an analogy, a comparison, than propose to try to transport "(virtual) games" into reality.
Also, sorry to say that, but SuperBetter sounds very much like what every child and some grown-ups do anyway: if confronted with a problem they can't solve immediately but have to endure it, which may even be boring stuff they have to do regularily, they make a game out of it, "enhance" it with their fantasy.
That being said, I still think that these studies and experiments can yield positive results, probably not in the way they are expected right now, but in some way that leads to a better understanding of human motivation nevertheless.