The Queue: Stonecore frustrations

Today we skip the flowery intro, because I really want to get straight to answering this first question.
Lipstick asked:
Why does everyone hate heroic Stonecore?
Oh boy! I've been hoping somebody would ask this for weeks. I am so excited I could spit! While I go through why I think everybody hates the Stonecore, please keep in mind that I'm largely discussing this instance in the context of PUGs in which you can't necessarily take the time to sit down and analyze boss data or parse your combat log to find out what happened to you. Also note that many of the things I describe below are being fixed in patch 4.0.6 -- something many players are calling nerfs, but I like to call making Stonecore not broken.
Let me break this down by boss.
First is Corborus. Corborus's burrow/unborrow timer is very strict, to the point that the very narrow area of crumbling dirt is wide enough that you will die if you run the wrong direction out of it. If you're slightly closer to the left than you are to the right, if you do not run left, you will die. Considering the snap decision nature of the ability, that's very unfriendly to people learning the fight. Your reaction is going to be, "I need to get out of this" and not, "I should run left." Doable? Absolutely. It's not impossible at all. But it's unfriendly.
To make things worse, the adds that spawn throughout the fight can daze you. If you get dazed in Corborus's trail, you will die. It is a death sentence, and there is very little avoiding it regardless of how good a player you are. If you haven't died to this boss before, I guarantee you that you will one day, no matter how awesome a player you are.

The person who died did everything right -- he ran behind a spike when the AoE was cast. Because he did everything right, he assumes that the fight must not be LoS-based; it must be something else. The others in the group assume he is a terrible player and wasn't actually behind a spike, even though he was. None of them know that the real reason the person died was because the spikes don't break line of sight when you're inside of the hitbox, even though it's between you and the mob.
Once I explained it to everybody, the reaction from the group was, "Oh, that's really stupid." It is stupid. It's a very poorly designed encounter, one that I would personally describe as broken. Those spikes should not spawn inside of Slabhide's hitbox at all, unless the purpose of this encounter is to teach players that World of Warcraft's LoS mechanics don't work properly. Wrath of the Lich King raiders learned that lesson on Sindragosa, which was the worst raid encounter of that expansion, in my opinion.
Then Ozruk. Ozruk's primary problem is being fixed in patch 4.0.6. The Shatter mechanic is designed in such a way that you will wipe to him when you first encounter him. It isn't negotiable. It isn't a matter of seeing Shatter being cast and then running away from it. If you try to do that you will die, which is different from the normal version of the encounter. You need to turn and start running when the Paralyze ability is cast, including the tank. And then Ozruk will use his ability. There's no way for a tank to know that and adapt to it. There's no picking up the pieces if members of your group don't know how it works, especially the tank. Unless they're clairvoyant, they are going to die learning this fight, and the mechanics are set up in a way that they might not fully understand why they died.
You are hit with Paralyze. If you have a DoT on your character, Paralyze is immediately removed. If you're a tank killing Ozruk for the first time and your Paralyze debuff was removed the moment it went up, you may not have noticed it at all. When you die, your immediate thought is going to be, "Oh, I didn't run out of Shatter fast enough." What is there to indicate that you were supposed to turn and run away? You didn't remove Paralyze intentionally. You didn't plan for its removal. It just happened without your knowledge, and then you died, not actually learning anything about the Shatter mechanic -- a spell that most certainly does not function like other Shatters we have come to know in raiding.
Is the boss possible? Again, yes. Is it counterintuitive and very difficult for players to understand? Absolutely. The mechanics of the fight work against themselves. In patch 4.0.6, the Shatter cast time is being increased so this problem should be resolved.

Personally, I think Stonecore is one step of difficulty above all of the other heroics. In the normals first, heroics second, raids third progression, I think it sits more in the raid level of difficulty and understanding how the game works. In fact, I would say Ozruk is more difficult than the normal mode of every single boss in the current tier of raiding except for Cho'gall, Nefarian and Al'Akir. Once you learn him, it's not a problem, but he certainly takes more work to learn than any other heroic boss. Other heroic bosses are hard, but how many of them make you sit down and really pick the game's mechanics apart?
... and that was about a thousand words, so I'm going to keep these next questions extremely short. This Stonecore thing very likely should have been its own post, but what can you do?
Brock asked:
My guild downed Halfus this past week. Should we stay in Twilight Bastion, or should we try and do the first boss in each of the raids or something entirely different?
This is always a tough question when raiding isn't strictly linear, because people are all going to have their own opinions of what's harder and what's easier. If you want the cop-out answer, I think you'll be fine doing the bosses in any order you'd like, as long as you save Cho'gall, Nefarian and Al'Akir for last. If you want a little more direction than that, my raid's first six boss kills, in order, were:
- Magmaw
- Omnotron Defense System
- Halfus Wyrmbreaker
- Valiona and Theralion
- Maloriak
- Conclave of Wind
Ishammel asked:
I was doing the Thunder Falls fishing daily a few days ago and at one stage, four non-targetable female dwarves spawned next to the stream, then proceeded to do a dance in a circle. There was no emote, music, or any other script I've seen running. It lasted for about 15 seconds and then they disappeared. Have you ever seen this or any idea what its purpose might be? My internet search skills have failed me.
That was someone using the Chalice of the Mountain Kings, an archaeology item. It's a purely cosmetic item that does nothing other than what you just described.
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Reader Comments (Page 11 of 14)
Boobah Jan 26th 2011 4:13PM
Grim Batol has it's own share of frustrating and one-shot mechanics. The first boss, between the malignant trogg (and to a lesser extent his pals) and one-shotting (well... almost) ranged with Blitz, the annoying amount of AoE healing required for Throngus's shield phase, trying to run away from Drahga's exploding elementals through Valiona's dragon poop while staying in position to avoid her breath weapon, and trying to find the eye of the Shadow Gale while Erudax covers your entire screen.
As I said yesterday, just about every boss has something incredibly annoying for the party as a whole (if not you in particular) to deal with. Again, excepting Earthrager Ptah who is pretty much a cakewalk (although his achievement is annoying if you're a pet class.)
Jaena Vashj Jan 26th 2011 2:32PM
Something thats been on my mind for a while. I'm a bit or a lore nerd, so I like picking classes for the backstory they provide, within my own head though since I don't like roleplaying.
However in the novels and even in game we see npc's with unique models due to their prowess in their class. Example being druids with bright golden eyes and antlers, paladins/priests with halos, warlocks with fiery red eyes or demonic appendages and so on. We already have it with Death Knights with their cold blue eyes.
What I want to know is, has Blizzard made any mention or this, or has anyone for that matter? and is it doable?
Ata Jan 26th 2011 2:43PM
Why don't the max level healing and mana potions drop in the wild? I've been 85 for a month, and I -just today- found my first mythical healing potion, out of a crate I fished up in Tol Barad.
...I know they're called 'mythical', Blizzard, but I didn't think that it was literal!
Pyromelter Jan 26th 2011 7:42PM
Alchemists gotta make money somehow, brah.
(and yeah, that's a snarky type answer, but it's the truth, blizz wants you to use your friendly neighborhood Apothecary for all of your health and mana needs)
Webwolf Jan 26th 2011 2:54PM
Hey Alex. You didn't even begin to mention the tunnel with the stone giants where people don't comprehend what "jump when quake is about to land" and the endlessly respawning stone spiders that aggro the Flayers. Or the walls around Slabhide's fight area that sometimes fail to despawn to let you back in after a wipe. Or the Sentries which will wreck a group if nobody kills them fast enough. Or the touchy pulls before Ozruk, all of them. Or the Rift Conjurers that will wreck a group with their summoned imps if not CCed or interrupted. Or the Bruisers that will wreck a group if the healer isn't on the ball. Or the Flayers, which will wreck a group if the tank isn't on the ball and steps out of their frontal cone. Or the Twilight Followers that will wreck a group if the tank decides to pull a Leeroy Jenkins on the last three groups.
What, me? Bitter? Oh, that's preposterous. Whatever gave you that idea? It's not like I've been using my hybrid Feral spec to save groups from anything and everything every time I run it. And I don't know where you'd get the idea that I've had to pick up and tank Ozruk after the tank bites it after the first Ground Slam. Really, you must be seeing things.
Boobah Jan 26th 2011 4:23PM
Bah! That's just trash. I don't find it any more annoying than the exploding air elementals in Pinnacle that WILL knock you off the edge, or the Azureborne Warlords who summon a swarm of little adds, or the Neferset Torturer's fear poison, or the Temple Swiftstalker that likes to Charged Shot the healer with his buddy the Runecaster and his channeled AoE, or the piles of gilblin hunters and aquamages six mobs deep, or the pulls of casting elementals and twilight outside Beauty's room with those patrols of meteor-dropping elementals going by.
richardconeal Jan 26th 2011 2:54PM
Am I the only one sick of people replying to the first comment over and over again fighting?
ZeroDesu Jan 26th 2011 2:55PM
Ooh! Question for the Queue:
I haven't actually been able to find this info anywhere, but, does Armor mitigate ANY damage in PvP, or is Resilience all that does? Or perhaps does it mitigate less damage in PvP than it does in PvE?
I'm just wondering, because my main is a Rogue, and it's going to make a difference whether I spec Assassination or Combat for PvP (Assassination because I love that spec, or Combat because it has that talent that increases armor by 50%).
Somebody had put in a reply to this last time I posted it, but I think they were thinking of Resistance, not Resilience, which are two different creatures entirely...
Lemons Jan 26th 2011 3:32PM
Yes it most certainly does. By simple observation you should be able to determine that you're doing less physical damage when fighting a plate-wearer as opposed to a cloth-wearer. Armor functions exactly the same in both pvp and pve...it reduces physical damage by a percentage, but it doesn't reduce the damage of spells or bleeds, making it worthless against many classes/specs that you'll face. Additionally, many of the melee classes in the game use a combination of physical damage and spell damage/bleeds so you're not really going to have a huge advantage over them either.
Rogues wear leather...our armor is fairly low. Even a 50% increase isn't going to amount to much. Yes, Reinforced Leather will help you, but it's not going to help you much against the majority of classes. It's not universal enough. If you're going to spec combat pvp anyways then pick it up, but I wouldn't spec combat pvp specifically for the talent. It's not that great.
ZeroDesu Jan 26th 2011 4:20PM
I just always noticed myself dying VERY quickly when I was doing Assassination PvP, so I tried switching to Combat, and it seemed to me like I was surviving more. (Could have just been a mental trick, though.) Plus, Combat doesn't rely as much on Stealth, and Stealthing in battlegrounds makes me feel horribly sluggish. The only time you can really catch up with people while in stealth is while Sprinting, but since Sprint doesn't last nearly as long now... I prefer just running around sans-Stealth with Combat spec because openers aren't quite as important for them.
Drakkenfyre Jan 26th 2011 4:47PM
I answered you last time.
I said armor mitigates PHYSICAL damage.
Resistances mitigates SPELL damage.
Pretty clear there.
Armor helps in PVP if you are being hit by physical damage. If you are being hit by spell damage, it does nothing.
nsmith_80 Jan 26th 2011 2:56PM
BREAK YOURSELF UPON MY BODY!
Nawaf Jan 26th 2011 2:56PM
Ello
Samual Barshow Jan 26th 2011 3:20PM
Just logged in to be kicked out for an eight meg patch. What was that about?
Riari Jan 26th 2011 3:49PM
14MBs on my end. Tools patch I was guessing.
Avan Jan 26th 2011 3:32PM
I've never, ever had a problem with Corborus on heroic. My groups always skip it. Just hang a left along the wall after he comes out and you don't have to bother with it.
You might also be able to skip Slabhide by hanging a right along his encounter space, but every group I've been in has managed to kill him somehow.
Ozruk isn't fun to skip, and requires that you have a shaman, warlock, or druid w/ someone else who can rez. Everyone runs passed Ozruk and then dies, and then whoever can rez pops back up and you're on your merry way to the last boss.
I hereby pronounce heroic Stonecore to be called heroic Skipcore.
Migo Jan 26th 2011 3:48PM
Why does the clearcasting proc from Omen of Clarity in Bear form not work for Pulverize and Thrash? It works for everything else in bear form that would be considered an 'offensive ability', even charge.
WoWie Zowie Jan 26th 2011 4:12PM
i apologize if this has been asked/answered before. but speaking about stonecore, why is millhouse manastorm suddenly evil anyway? i mean we rescued him from the arcatraz a couple years ago; in fact it was a quest from A'dal himself to save millhouse as part of the trial of the naaru. and then we quest in deepholme and see him hanging out with the twilight cultists. and he has the title "forgemaster" now too. explain that one to me. i used to think he was a cool guy and now i have to kill him =(
Boobah Jan 26th 2011 4:29PM
Well, he claims that he thinks Deathwing's team is the winning side. It's also true that he spent who-knows-how-long trapped in a naaru prison next to a mind-controlling servant of the Old Gods. And we have no idea why the naaru locked him up in the first place; there's probably a reason he was in the heart of the place.
Drakkenfyre Jan 26th 2011 4:47PM
He wasn't locked up. He was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and was imprisoned aciddently.
The quest to go get him tells you this. That's why you go free him.