The Queue: Stonecore frustrations

Today we skip the flowery intro, because I really want to get straight to answering this first question.
Lipstick asked:
Why does everyone hate heroic Stonecore?
Oh boy! I've been hoping somebody would ask this for weeks. I am so excited I could spit! While I go through why I think everybody hates the Stonecore, please keep in mind that I'm largely discussing this instance in the context of PUGs in which you can't necessarily take the time to sit down and analyze boss data or parse your combat log to find out what happened to you. Also note that many of the things I describe below are being fixed in patch 4.0.6 -- something many players are calling nerfs, but I like to call making Stonecore not broken.
Let me break this down by boss.
First is Corborus. Corborus's burrow/unborrow timer is very strict, to the point that the very narrow area of crumbling dirt is wide enough that you will die if you run the wrong direction out of it. If you're slightly closer to the left than you are to the right, if you do not run left, you will die. Considering the snap decision nature of the ability, that's very unfriendly to people learning the fight. Your reaction is going to be, "I need to get out of this" and not, "I should run left." Doable? Absolutely. It's not impossible at all. But it's unfriendly.
To make things worse, the adds that spawn throughout the fight can daze you. If you get dazed in Corborus's trail, you will die. It is a death sentence, and there is very little avoiding it regardless of how good a player you are. If you haven't died to this boss before, I guarantee you that you will one day, no matter how awesome a player you are.

The person who died did everything right -- he ran behind a spike when the AoE was cast. Because he did everything right, he assumes that the fight must not be LoS-based; it must be something else. The others in the group assume he is a terrible player and wasn't actually behind a spike, even though he was. None of them know that the real reason the person died was because the spikes don't break line of sight when you're inside of the hitbox, even though it's between you and the mob.
Once I explained it to everybody, the reaction from the group was, "Oh, that's really stupid." It is stupid. It's a very poorly designed encounter, one that I would personally describe as broken. Those spikes should not spawn inside of Slabhide's hitbox at all, unless the purpose of this encounter is to teach players that World of Warcraft's LoS mechanics don't work properly. Wrath of the Lich King raiders learned that lesson on Sindragosa, which was the worst raid encounter of that expansion, in my opinion.
Then Ozruk. Ozruk's primary problem is being fixed in patch 4.0.6. The Shatter mechanic is designed in such a way that you will wipe to him when you first encounter him. It isn't negotiable. It isn't a matter of seeing Shatter being cast and then running away from it. If you try to do that you will die, which is different from the normal version of the encounter. You need to turn and start running when the Paralyze ability is cast, including the tank. And then Ozruk will use his ability. There's no way for a tank to know that and adapt to it. There's no picking up the pieces if members of your group don't know how it works, especially the tank. Unless they're clairvoyant, they are going to die learning this fight, and the mechanics are set up in a way that they might not fully understand why they died.
You are hit with Paralyze. If you have a DoT on your character, Paralyze is immediately removed. If you're a tank killing Ozruk for the first time and your Paralyze debuff was removed the moment it went up, you may not have noticed it at all. When you die, your immediate thought is going to be, "Oh, I didn't run out of Shatter fast enough." What is there to indicate that you were supposed to turn and run away? You didn't remove Paralyze intentionally. You didn't plan for its removal. It just happened without your knowledge, and then you died, not actually learning anything about the Shatter mechanic -- a spell that most certainly does not function like other Shatters we have come to know in raiding.
Is the boss possible? Again, yes. Is it counterintuitive and very difficult for players to understand? Absolutely. The mechanics of the fight work against themselves. In patch 4.0.6, the Shatter cast time is being increased so this problem should be resolved.

Personally, I think Stonecore is one step of difficulty above all of the other heroics. In the normals first, heroics second, raids third progression, I think it sits more in the raid level of difficulty and understanding how the game works. In fact, I would say Ozruk is more difficult than the normal mode of every single boss in the current tier of raiding except for Cho'gall, Nefarian and Al'Akir. Once you learn him, it's not a problem, but he certainly takes more work to learn than any other heroic boss. Other heroic bosses are hard, but how many of them make you sit down and really pick the game's mechanics apart?
... and that was about a thousand words, so I'm going to keep these next questions extremely short. This Stonecore thing very likely should have been its own post, but what can you do?
Brock asked:
My guild downed Halfus this past week. Should we stay in Twilight Bastion, or should we try and do the first boss in each of the raids or something entirely different?
This is always a tough question when raiding isn't strictly linear, because people are all going to have their own opinions of what's harder and what's easier. If you want the cop-out answer, I think you'll be fine doing the bosses in any order you'd like, as long as you save Cho'gall, Nefarian and Al'Akir for last. If you want a little more direction than that, my raid's first six boss kills, in order, were:
- Magmaw
- Omnotron Defense System
- Halfus Wyrmbreaker
- Valiona and Theralion
- Maloriak
- Conclave of Wind
Ishammel asked:
I was doing the Thunder Falls fishing daily a few days ago and at one stage, four non-targetable female dwarves spawned next to the stream, then proceeded to do a dance in a circle. There was no emote, music, or any other script I've seen running. It lasted for about 15 seconds and then they disappeared. Have you ever seen this or any idea what its purpose might be? My internet search skills have failed me.
That was someone using the Chalice of the Mountain Kings, an archaeology item. It's a purely cosmetic item that does nothing other than what you just described.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, The Queue, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 14)
Mr. Tastix Jan 26th 2011 1:13PM
Except they're not bigger than you. They get scaled down and are proportionate to a gnomes body as they would be to a Tauren or Draenei's.
vocenoctum Jan 26th 2011 1:25PM
Female gnomes say:
# "I apologize profusely for any inconvenience my murderous rampage may have caused."
# "I've discovered that getting pummeled by a blunt weapon can be quite painful."
So yeah, that's Warrior Talk there!
Draelan Jan 26th 2011 2:45PM
Gnome Warrior's are awesome, especially with specific fight mechanics. Why, I remember one particular attempt on the Lich King where we brought in a friend's gnome warrior, since one of our normal tanks couldn't make it. I was on orb duty, and just before the first transition phase ended, one last orb spawned just beyond the Lich King, well out of my range. I had it targeted and was running off the crumbling platform towards it when I notice this tiny little ball of plate-covered fury blur towards the Lich King. Our gnome warrior tank had charged in to pick up the boss and she hit the orb when she got there. This resulted in her being immediately punted back and over the edge. It was like the Lich King was made of rubber and she just bounced right off! It was HILARIOUS!
Heimdallw32 Jan 26th 2011 2:53PM
@ Hal
1/1 Punch Deathwing In The Face
Hangk Jan 26th 2011 3:26PM
Gnome or go home. You haven't lived until you've tanked some ridiculously enormous raid boss on your Gnome.
Gozzix Goldgear Jan 27th 2011 9:03PM
I say gnome, but that may be biased by the fact I am myself a gnome, heh.
Nick Jan 26th 2011 11:09AM
I love my chalice and smiled at the possibility it was my shadow priest that you encountered. It's unlikely, but possible.
Darkdust Jan 26th 2011 11:10AM
I saw some discussion in comments the other day that Blizzard somehow doesn't "let" players treat heroics as end-game content, or something along those lines. How is that? If players enjoy the heroic challenges without wanting to deal with 'raid culture', what prevents them from focusing on heroic dungeons?
Brett Porter Jan 26th 2011 11:33AM
I haven't seen that to be the case, but must have missed that discussion, not sure where it was. For the longest time I was not a raider, and even now it's not a highly progressive raid team I'm on, which is perfect for me. Up until about 3 months ago the end game for me was chain heroics. I had the best gear you could get without going into raids.
I think it is very viable for someone who enjoys grouping with folks (whether PUGs or guildies) but doesn't have the time commitment or schedule to allow for any type of raiding. Before I joined my current raid team I would do the weekly with an essentially PUGed alliance of guilds, it was farm content from Ulduar, so a very nice way to stick my toes in the water.
Noyou Jan 26th 2011 11:38AM
That's ridiculous. If you want to stay at lvl 60 or lvl 70 and run endgame stuff for your lvl you can. If you want to stick with Cata heroics when you ding 85 that's fine too. Hell, it's actually optimal to learn every Cata heroic well before ever (if at all) stepping into a Cata raid. Don't let anyone tell you what you can't or shouldn't do in game or IRL. :)
Saeadame Jan 26th 2011 12:11PM
It is true that you can just stick to heroics, but pretty soon it starts to feel a little stagnant. I currently don't have time to raid, so I'm doing my heroics every day, sometimes a few of them with different guild groups. Anyway, I'm decked out in ilvl 346 gear now (all of which is well-itemized), so I don't need any more gear from heroics or the JP vendor, so doing heroics (gear-wise, anyway) is pointless except for the first one to get my VP. Sure, heroics are fun, but unless I'm in a guild group chatting with them on vent, it's just not that fun.
Certainly, raids become stagnant too (waaay too many months in ICC, anyone?), but it seems to take them a lot longer. If I have just one character that I play and I'm unable to raid, heroics probably won't keep me interested very long, and I'll have to find other things to do. Now, I have alts, so that's what I do, but not everyone likes having multiple characters, or PvP, or farming BC reps or whatever.
SamLowry Jan 26th 2011 10:41PM
If the devs don't want players to see heroics as endgame content, then they need to come up with a raid finder.
Simple.
I'm still bummed that my smith was all set to start crafting ICC gear, yet it's kinda hard to craft that gear if you never get invited inside so you can actually visit the vendors, who are useless to you until you've killed a whole lotta skeletons and maybe a few bosses, too, which is kinda difficult if you never get invited inside.
And don't start that business about joining a raiding guild--I'm perfectly happy with my friends-n-family guild, tiny as it is (nearly at level 3!).
kaosgrace Jan 28th 2011 8:50AM
@SamLowry: Raid finder? Cata raids? omg. Oh, the horror. Please make the nightmares stop!
Aikou Jan 26th 2011 11:12AM
Has there been any mention of a new legendary weapon for cata. Or specific dungeon. Kinda like how u had the healing mace in ulduar.
olzer Jan 26th 2011 11:30AM
Not sure if it was at BlizzCon or on the forums after, but Blizzard said something about a Legendary Caster DPS weapon in Cata...
Task Jan 26th 2011 11:37AM
@Aikou
As of yet no. Putting my TFH on, I'm guessing it'll come at 4.1 at the earliest or mid way through when more of the expansion is told after Sinestra's death.
Sunaseni Jan 26th 2011 11:50AM
The first legendary was decided on a whim at Blizzcon, and it'll be a caster DPS staff. Blizz has stated that they don't want legendaries in the first tier because we are still upgrading from greens and blues.
Sorro Jan 26th 2011 1:28PM
So, still no legendary that a feral would want, eh? :P
Tim Jan 26th 2011 11:14AM
I was about to do normal Stonecore with a guildy doing heroics. Kinda glad I didn't. I need to go to bed. Maybe I'll tackle that beotch tomorrow.
loop_not_defined Jan 26th 2011 12:22PM
Normal Stonecore isn't too bad, really. Groups tend to just push through Corborus and Slabhide. Ozruk still requires paying attention, but it's mostly limited to melee running out of Shatter and the tank running out of Shatter and Ground Slam. There's nothing magical about those abilities on Normal, though. When you see him casting, you move.
The High Priestess is a unique fight that'll require some explaining, though, if anybody is new to the dungeon.