The Queue: Stonecore frustrations

Today we skip the flowery intro, because I really want to get straight to answering this first question.
Lipstick asked:
Why does everyone hate heroic Stonecore?
Oh boy! I've been hoping somebody would ask this for weeks. I am so excited I could spit! While I go through why I think everybody hates the Stonecore, please keep in mind that I'm largely discussing this instance in the context of PUGs in which you can't necessarily take the time to sit down and analyze boss data or parse your combat log to find out what happened to you. Also note that many of the things I describe below are being fixed in patch 4.0.6 -- something many players are calling nerfs, but I like to call making Stonecore not broken.
Let me break this down by boss.
First is Corborus. Corborus's burrow/unborrow timer is very strict, to the point that the very narrow area of crumbling dirt is wide enough that you will die if you run the wrong direction out of it. If you're slightly closer to the left than you are to the right, if you do not run left, you will die. Considering the snap decision nature of the ability, that's very unfriendly to people learning the fight. Your reaction is going to be, "I need to get out of this" and not, "I should run left." Doable? Absolutely. It's not impossible at all. But it's unfriendly.
To make things worse, the adds that spawn throughout the fight can daze you. If you get dazed in Corborus's trail, you will die. It is a death sentence, and there is very little avoiding it regardless of how good a player you are. If you haven't died to this boss before, I guarantee you that you will one day, no matter how awesome a player you are.

The person who died did everything right -- he ran behind a spike when the AoE was cast. Because he did everything right, he assumes that the fight must not be LoS-based; it must be something else. The others in the group assume he is a terrible player and wasn't actually behind a spike, even though he was. None of them know that the real reason the person died was because the spikes don't break line of sight when you're inside of the hitbox, even though it's between you and the mob.
Once I explained it to everybody, the reaction from the group was, "Oh, that's really stupid." It is stupid. It's a very poorly designed encounter, one that I would personally describe as broken. Those spikes should not spawn inside of Slabhide's hitbox at all, unless the purpose of this encounter is to teach players that World of Warcraft's LoS mechanics don't work properly. Wrath of the Lich King raiders learned that lesson on Sindragosa, which was the worst raid encounter of that expansion, in my opinion.
Then Ozruk. Ozruk's primary problem is being fixed in patch 4.0.6. The Shatter mechanic is designed in such a way that you will wipe to him when you first encounter him. It isn't negotiable. It isn't a matter of seeing Shatter being cast and then running away from it. If you try to do that you will die, which is different from the normal version of the encounter. You need to turn and start running when the Paralyze ability is cast, including the tank. And then Ozruk will use his ability. There's no way for a tank to know that and adapt to it. There's no picking up the pieces if members of your group don't know how it works, especially the tank. Unless they're clairvoyant, they are going to die learning this fight, and the mechanics are set up in a way that they might not fully understand why they died.
You are hit with Paralyze. If you have a DoT on your character, Paralyze is immediately removed. If you're a tank killing Ozruk for the first time and your Paralyze debuff was removed the moment it went up, you may not have noticed it at all. When you die, your immediate thought is going to be, "Oh, I didn't run out of Shatter fast enough." What is there to indicate that you were supposed to turn and run away? You didn't remove Paralyze intentionally. You didn't plan for its removal. It just happened without your knowledge, and then you died, not actually learning anything about the Shatter mechanic -- a spell that most certainly does not function like other Shatters we have come to know in raiding.
Is the boss possible? Again, yes. Is it counterintuitive and very difficult for players to understand? Absolutely. The mechanics of the fight work against themselves. In patch 4.0.6, the Shatter cast time is being increased so this problem should be resolved.

Personally, I think Stonecore is one step of difficulty above all of the other heroics. In the normals first, heroics second, raids third progression, I think it sits more in the raid level of difficulty and understanding how the game works. In fact, I would say Ozruk is more difficult than the normal mode of every single boss in the current tier of raiding except for Cho'gall, Nefarian and Al'Akir. Once you learn him, it's not a problem, but he certainly takes more work to learn than any other heroic boss. Other heroic bosses are hard, but how many of them make you sit down and really pick the game's mechanics apart?
... and that was about a thousand words, so I'm going to keep these next questions extremely short. This Stonecore thing very likely should have been its own post, but what can you do?
Brock asked:
My guild downed Halfus this past week. Should we stay in Twilight Bastion, or should we try and do the first boss in each of the raids or something entirely different?
This is always a tough question when raiding isn't strictly linear, because people are all going to have their own opinions of what's harder and what's easier. If you want the cop-out answer, I think you'll be fine doing the bosses in any order you'd like, as long as you save Cho'gall, Nefarian and Al'Akir for last. If you want a little more direction than that, my raid's first six boss kills, in order, were:
- Magmaw
- Omnotron Defense System
- Halfus Wyrmbreaker
- Valiona and Theralion
- Maloriak
- Conclave of Wind
Ishammel asked:
I was doing the Thunder Falls fishing daily a few days ago and at one stage, four non-targetable female dwarves spawned next to the stream, then proceeded to do a dance in a circle. There was no emote, music, or any other script I've seen running. It lasted for about 15 seconds and then they disappeared. Have you ever seen this or any idea what its purpose might be? My internet search skills have failed me.
That was someone using the Chalice of the Mountain Kings, an archaeology item. It's a purely cosmetic item that does nothing other than what you just described.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, The Queue, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 9 of 14)
sandlwalters Jan 26th 2011 2:32PM
What's up with the baby murlocs that spawn when doing the Org clam meat collecting daily? At first I thought I was going crazy when I saw them, until I realized they were coming from opening the clams.
VioletArrows Jan 26th 2011 5:19PM
They don't do anything. It's just a cute little easter egg. Albeit a weird one since there aren't any murlocs villages on that part of the coast.
Lithette Jan 26th 2011 12:15PM
Tanks have been reporting since 4.0.1 that taunts can no longer miss. Has this been reported and verified? Perhaps I missed it? It makes a significant difference to gearing hit rating vs. survivability, but I haven't seen this issue mentioned in Rossi's columns.
Monion Jan 26th 2011 12:18PM
I've had numerous LFD groups finish Stonecore, some with more trouble than others, but I challenge your assertion that its as hard as raid content. My team has downed Halfus, and was much harder, and here's why: I'm a healer. In Stonecore, there are so many instadeath mechanics I can rarely be blamed for them. The second things like Corborus' burrow becomes survivable, I know people will expect me to heal them through it. The idea of a PUG having the finesse to down Halfus is laughable, but having to dodge burrow 4 times in a fight is doable, even if unforgiving. Though, I am pretty happy with making all these mechanics more visible. Nothing feels worse than telling your healer to stop putting AoE heals on the ground because no one can see the meteor through it.
Silverbolt Jan 26th 2011 12:16PM
So I went and bought an Arcanum of the Wildhammer for my DK alt, failing to notice that despite being BoA it still requires Revered rep with Wildhammer. I was greatly dismayed when I tried to use it on my DK to no avail. Is this a bug? If not, why make the helm enchants BoA in the first place?
Telwar Jan 26th 2011 12:29PM
Honestly, I think it's a cruel joke.
Lipstick Jan 26th 2011 1:22PM
My guess is that at some point the revered requirement will be dropped. I think right now, they don't want people taking too many shortcuts with their alts while the content is still somewhat new and fresh. To prevent certain raids from having an unfair advantage.
What I mean is -- it's not uncommon for top of the line guilds to play round robin with their raid rosters -- changing them up on an encounter by encounter basis based on what raid makeup they think is best for the fight. They don't want to make it easier for them to gear their alts up in order to do this. As many of these guilds also waste attempts on bosses who have an attempt lock on them with alts so that the alts learn the fight.
Once we're further down the raiding spectrum in terms of progression I believe that this requirement will be removed.
kreizyzerg Jan 26th 2011 12:23PM
Honestly I don't find tanking Ozruk difficult at all. You just keep him running back and forth and you don't get hit with his stuff, the melee dps might hate it a little, but they can deal with it. None of the bosses in Stonecore heroic are as hard as you are saying they are, I've had maybe one or two mess ups in PUG groups and after that we explained the fight and they were like oh ok and tada everything went well. Stop crying about heroics I like em hard and challenging, if they down their challenge it's just going to turn into Lich King jokes. Learn your class and learn the mechanics of the game, standing in stuff is bad, being near a mob when you know an aoe is coming is bad, just learn the encounter and a few mistakes is fine, you die run back. Honestly I have more issues with trash than I do any bosses in any heroic.
namethe Jan 26th 2011 12:38PM
I disagree with the assessment of Stonecore...is it hard? Yes. Placing it leaps and bounds over the other heroics though isn't really accurate, even if you are basing it off of running it with pugs.
Ozruk fight = Business as usual, range stay at max range. Melee, don't stand in front of him when he casts ground slam and run from him as soon as your paralyze breaks to avoid his shatter. Thats really it.
Also, to suggest that the raid bosses are less difficult than that is ridiculous. Unless your point is that downing a raid boss with your guild when you are coordinated and clear on the strategy is easier than downing Ozruk with pugs who don't take direction...but is that really a point worth making?
There are plenty of people like me who have cleared the heroic content numerous times and have moved on to downing raid bosses, if that can be said than how can something really be broken? Its fair punishment IMO in a game where you have hunters queuing for Heroic dungeons in cloth in order to try and bypass the minimum item level.
Thanks for reading this rant. :D
BlackTiger™ Jan 26th 2011 12:33PM
Stonecore?! Never had a problem running Stonecore(H).
But I hate Blackrock, even "normal"!!! with it's ridiculous bossed and their stupid bug.... mechanics.
Taedran Jan 26th 2011 12:54PM
So I have a question. Tabard collectors get a fancy tabard for having 25 tabards. Pet collectors get two fancy pets for getting a set number of pets. Mount collectors as well, they get two mounts for 50 and 100 mounts. So what about titles? Why don't title collectors get a title for having 25 or such titles? (Personally, I think 25 titles is too easy, make it like 40 or something)
There used to be a mod I had that switched between choice titles every 10 seconds, so I didn't have to pick between Kingslayer, Loremaster, and other such titles, but Blizzard negated this mod, so I assumed they were just going to finally give us title collectors a title for titles.
Why do you think Blizz hasn't implemented any love for title collectors?
Drakkenfyre Jan 26th 2011 1:30PM
You want to get a title, for collecting titles?
Unlike mounts, or pets, which can be easy and cheap to buy (5g at level 20, 50s for a pet in Elwynn Forest) titles aren't exactly easy to get. Some are easier than others, and there are a couple that a level 1 can get, but it requires serious work (for those two). But most titles require a Heroic run, a raid, or a holiday achievement, or a bunch of holiday achievements. I don't think they would be interested in placing in a title for gaining 40 titles. Because that would probably just annoy people.
Altho, (half-jokingly) I guess your title could be The Entitled, or Of Many Titles.
Pyromelter Jan 26th 2011 7:37PM
I have no idea if there is a title called "The Renowned" but that would be a great vanity title for someone that has collected 25 or 50 titles.
Taedran Jan 28th 2011 12:41PM
So, Drakkenfyre... what you're saying is... you don't think Blizz will do this because of casual QQ? Titles aren't hard to get at all. Some are, yes, but so are some pets and some mounts. Getting 75 pets and 100 mounts are no small feat (though it's getting easier and easier...) so Titles can be in that same game, they just have to tweak the numbers. Do 2 tiers or something. 25 titles you get "Lord/Lady Name" and at 40 or 50 titles (not sure if there are 50 available titles...) you get "The Entitled" or something.
Pam Jan 26th 2011 1:08PM
Ozruk - I really think he's buggy as heck....I sat there, watched everyone have their dots up as paralyze went out, and we still all got stuck (you can tell, cause the reflected spell shows up on Decursive...).
What's even worse is if a mage brings out Mirror images, and they attack the packs of mobs around the room, instead of the boss we are on. At first we thought it was just someone stepped too close, so the next round, we turned our camera angle, and sure enough, MI was grabbing all the wrong dudes.
BlackTiger Jan 27th 2011 4:31AM
I think it's because of bug... mechanics. Personal "avoidance", to be precise.
You own dot simply can't hit you, because of it. Stupid mechanics...
Doc Jan 26th 2011 1:03PM
Ozruk has been bugged on Aegwynn for the last 2 days making it impossible for ranged dps to stay out of range of Ozruk. You can run as far as you want but all ranged will die just adding to the further frustration to an already frustrating encounter. Also, am I the only one who thinks Blizzard should revisit their definition of the word "done" regarding the statement "We won't release Cataclysm until it's done".
JT Jan 26th 2011 1:21PM
Honestly, we've all been paying to play the beta since Dec. 7 as the massive changes and bug fixes coming in 4.0.6 prove.
At least Square Enix had the decency to give out free playtime when it became clear they'd released an unfinished game.
Talexei Jan 26th 2011 1:11PM
One thing that I learned in the Orzuk fight is that ranged and healers do not need to be on the ground at all. How do you do this? Simple! Clear out all of the mobs on the right hand side of the room before getting to Orzuk. There is a wagon there as well as the tents that you can get on top of. All Ranged and Healers go up there and just let yourself get paralyzed if you have no DOT to use. When the Ground Slam comes you are not on the ground and will not take much if any damage. This is how a group of Guildies and I did it last night and we got him down (after a couple of wipes where we did not use this strat first).
Tank pulls Orzuk into the adds room and as long as he stays away from any remaining adds they will not enter the fight
Will Jan 26th 2011 5:34PM
As far as the off-the-ground avoidance strat goes, can a priest's Levitate work for this also?