corruption =/= evil

Implying Sylvanas is not evil is like trying to convince people the Coco bird isn't coo-coo for Coco Puffs.

There are different kinds of corruption, and many of them DO in fact mean evil. Corruption by temptation/sin/evil and thus BECOMING evil is a classic story element used throughout the ages, and for good reason: It's based in reality. Given that 1) people aren't born evil, and 2) people can become evil, it follows then that 3) something must change (read: corrupt) people to turn them to evil. But that doesn't mean they had no choice in the matter!

And don't tell me that no one is truly "evil." They most definitely CAN be evil enough to earn the label. I don't care if the mass-murdering villain of the story had a horrible childhood. I don't care if somewhere deep down there's some good in his blackened heart. If he's out there committing genocide, he's EVIL. There's something valid to the "shades of gray" thing, but all too often it's just a cop out to avoid labeling evil as what it is.

She is evil. Period.

The semantics are the usual spin by Horde fanboys who play UD characters.

She's dead. She was rez'd by the Lich King. That makes her evil. She hates the living. That's her friggin' battle cry! "Death to the living!" How is that not evil?

I played a UD toon and it's completely the most evil of all WoW toons. I mean, look at the Holocaust-type shit that used to go down in the Apothecary? It's just sick.

I think she's a great character. But you can't really clean up the undead. Every other Horde race, sure, they can just be misunderstood. Taurens for sure, even trolls and Blood Elves--and certainly Goblins--they are shades or gray.

Orcs are bit problematic simply because they practice genocide. But the Undead are--flippin' undead! That's pretty evil.

If she's undead, honestly thinks being undead is really awesome and better than being alive can ever be, and wants everyone to join her in undeath, is that pure evil, or a bizarre and different perspective?
It's certainly not worse than Wrynn who wants all orcs to die. Is he pure evil because of that? He has a troubled past that gives him a somewhat justified hatred of their kind. Seems somewhat similar to Sylvanas' plight.

You know, I realize that zombies are evil and all, but if I was brought back to life against my will, I'd probably try to live. That's the screwed up part of the whole business. They are undead and therefore inherently labeled evil. Creation is not necessarily inherently good or evil. Our decisions define us.

Now I'm not saying Sylvanas isn't evil, she has crossed the line even with me, but she is not so far gone that there is no hope. The Forsaken Curse is not what corrupts. She was raised by the Lich King, but even she understood his evil and fought against it.

What makes her evil is her decision to kill the living regardless of race or allegiance. What makes her evil is her decision to raise them as undead even before the corpse is cold against their will. What makes her evil is whatever she is using to compel loyalty before they have had time to figure out what's going on. Being Forsaken is not evil. Forsaking morality is.

I don't think Sylvannas is evil. I'm sure she just has to make crazy choices to accomplish whatever it is she wants right now. Of course, she does some fucked up things, nobody can deny that, but I love it. I think she lost most of her morality when she was raised and after enduring all she had to go through, so she doesn't mind killing people and raising them back to bolster her armies, but I think it's all part of what she needs to do to be a good leader and now she doesn't have any of the restraints she had when she was alive. I think she is all about getting to her goal, without thinking of the consequences. The whole plague thing is crazy, but it was a really good plan to get rid of Arthas. In the Wrathgate, he was damaged enough to have to retreat. If Putress hadn't done what he did, Sylvannas might've used the plague on Arthas and dealt him the killing blow right there. I can't think of her as evil, I know she suffers deeply for what happened to her and the High Elves and having to live apart from them is even worse. She made Thrall accept the Blood Elves into the Horde and it giving her a necklace from her sister was enough to make her extremely depressed. I'm sure she is resigned to her Undead life and her new people (who she has to protect at all cost), so she uses many unorthodox methods to keep her people alive. She clearly has her own agenda and I'm sure we will learn what it is soon enought, but I don't think she is being controlled or anything. It would suck so bad if they pulled a Kael'thas or Illidan on her.. I really love Sylvannas, she is really tragic.. it's like she was pushed into so much crap and now she has to make the best of it even if she becomes a monster in the process.. I'm hoping for the best, I want her to reunite with her sister, see what they have to tell her :D Maybe she'll soften a little and stop acting all that crazy.

If you're treated as a mindless, brain-eating, life-hating zombie long enough you're bound to become one eventually.

With that said, I'm anti-Sylvanas. Death to the Lich Queen. Or some classical fairy tale redemption plot *_*

I think some of you are missing something here.

Undead being evil is a point of view.

From the undead perspective, killing and raising more undead is their only source of propagation for the species.The undead are not bumping ugly and making undead babies.

Propagating your race in the only possible way can only been seen as evil from the other point of view.

I'm sure a zebra family thinks that lion's are evil.

All I need to do is go to whats left of Southshore to make my mind up over just how evil she is. I'm sure Genn Greymane remembers her sympathetic words over the death of his son quite well also.

Fighting an ongoing war, or winning a battle does not make someone evil.

There are plenty of example of the ally forces attacking and killing Horde as well.

Perhaps you have heard of Camp Taurajo in the Barrens?

Are the Ally leaders Evil for attacking the Horde?

The thing about Sylvanus is that she had a choice... or did she?

I love the character but her actions make me absolutely despise her (and I think that's the point). She proclaims to have been freed of the Lich King but honestly, has she actually been free or is something else still controlling her?

Let's assume she's actually evil, and not working on some secret plan for the forces of good. It's relevant to ask, what kind of evil is she?

Is she evil in a Darth Vader, "yes I'm evil, but only because things didn't turn out the way I expected, and someday I will cast off my shackles and be redeemed" sort of way?

Is she evil in a Senator Palpatine/Darth Sidious, "Mwah-ha-ha I'm so bugnuts evil it doesn't actually make sense except to further the plot" sort of way?

Or is she evil in a Grand Moff Tarkin, "We have an Empire to run and little things like individual rights, and honor, and inhabited planets are either pointless or threatening" sort of way?

Valid questions I think, because the motivation for someone's corruption and subsequent turn toward evil leads to the conclusion of their story. The story I've seen leads me to believe that she started out as a Vader character - evil, but not out of choice, and with the potential for being redeemed. With Arthas dead and redemption not forthcoming, perhaps the Vader-aspect of her personality has grown into a Grand Moff Tarkin sensibility: my hopes and dreams have finally been put to rest forever, but the trains still need to run on time, there are taxes to be collected, enemies have to be fought, and new recruits have to be brought into the fold. Nothing personal, just business.

So who would run the Undercity / Forsaken faction if she were removed? It's possible that Leonid Barthalomew could turn the faction around toward a more peaceful future. Of course, it's also possible (and more likely, IMO) that Varimathras or another dreadlord could take over. I do like the idea of Leonid becoming faction leader ~ it would make for some interesting stories...

I can see Sylvanas taking control of the sunwell to find a redemption to her curse (very much like the night elves and their immortality attached to the well of eternity).

It's possible to name Sylvanas evil and still have sympathy.

And out of sympathy I'd like to help take the weight off her shoulders. Namely: her head.