15 Minutes of Fame: McGonigal on why you're as awesome in real life as in WoW
Last week, we gave you the lengthy part 1 of our interview with game designer and fellow WoW player Jane McGonigal. This week, by way of a re-introduction, we give you her most recent biographical note:
Jane McGonigal is the director of game research and development at the Institute for the Future. Her work has been featured in The Economist, Wired, and The New York Times, and on MTV, CNN, and NPR. In 2009, BusinessWeek called her one of the 10 most important innovators to watch, and Fast Company named her one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business. In 2010, Oprah Magazine chose her as one of the 20 most inspiring women in the world. She has given keynote addresses at TED, South by Southwest Interactive, and the Game Developers Conference and was a featured speaker at The New Yorker Conference. She has a Ph.D. from the University of California at Berkeley in performance studies and games research.
Okay, then – the lady knows her stuff. Pull up a chair and let's wrap up a visit with McGonigal by talking more about her own WoW experience and her take on how other WoW players should view their gaming hobby.
Read Part 1: Jane McGonigal on why gamers will change the world
15 Minutes of Fame: So Jane, let's talk about your own World of Warcraft experience. Did you start playing for work or for pleasure?
Jane McGonigal: I started playing for fun, and I played mostly through the Wrath of the Lich King campaign. I stopped in January of 2009 because my husband and I were having a bit too much fun with it. So we decided to stop for a while so I could write the book. We're sort of eagerly looking forward to coming back. We mention it not infrequently, like, "Oh, we'll come back soon. We'll take a week's vacation and just play." But that time hasn't popped itself out yet.
But it's one of those games that really grabs me. I'm definitely the kind of person who could easily turn into more than 20 hours a week on that game. I mean, you saw in the book the first time I sat down to play, it's like, we sat down at 1 in the afternoon -- and suddenly it's 3 in the morning, all we've had for dinner is like Cheetos and pretzels we ran out to the deli to buy ... It was like, "What?"
I play an undead priest. I'm very healer-type; it feels good. I actually find myself thinking about it sometimes in real life -- like you know, "If there were something I could do right now to have a little healing power, what would that be?"
We've talked about the tie between gaming and real life, and what gamers can learn from playing games. What is WoW teaching its players?Well, I definitely think that there's a sense that the ambient sociability is important. I'm a super-introvert myself. If I'm not in a structured environment like a game, I can find it really intimidating to talk to people. For me, I know that if I'm in a game situation, I'm more likely to be social. And [through playing games like WoW], we can sort of build up our social endurance for being with other people, thinking of things to say ... It just sort of builds up the stamina that introverts naturally don't have.
With introverts, their dopamine systems tend to work more with internal thought than with external, social stimulation. Whereas with extroverts, they have the dopamine receptors going off when someone smiles at them; for them, it's like a hit of candy or crack cocaine, you know? And for introverts, that's not happening.
But when we're in game world, we do get motivated. We do get these dopamine hits from the game itself. When we're getting them around other people, it can kind of shift our neurochemistry. So it's interesting.
I wouldn't necessarily call it "learning" so much as "training." It's not a mental thing, that you're really going to have an "aha" moment. It's like, "Oh, yeah, being with other people, even if it's in a virtual world, is like part of this thing that makes me happy." It seems to have a trickle effect into real life. You're less likely to shy away from a large group or more likely to open your mouth. That's important for lots of reasons. It's important because for success in life, it's important to be able to open your mouth and talk to people you don't know. It's important for health. They say that people who feel like they can talk to strangers or talk to other people and have a positive experience of that live 10 years longer than anyone else, they're more likely to survive accident or injury ... It's kind of like this sort of health power-up, to be comfortable with other people in large groups.
So for me, it can just kinda be training.
Let's go back and talk more about your practical advice for gamers.
Definitely they are guidelines, not hard-and-fast rules. Something I know from my research is that the average WoW player spends between 16 and 21 hours a week. I think that still tends to be the norm. So that totally fits perfectly within the maximum recommended game play, which is 21 hours a week.
I would say that the more the game is integrated with your real life, the more hours you could spend playing. For instance, when I was playing WoW, my husband and I would play in the same room on individual computers. It was a social activity we did together, and it brought our relationship closer in a really positive way to be collaborating in the game together and having this experience together. So that's not taking away from my real life; that's adding to my real life. If you're playing with coworkers and that's strengthening your relationship, or maybe you really feel you're taking the leadership qualities you're developing in your guild and you're applying them to your office or wherever you work ... As long as you feel like the game is a springboard to real life, then don't worry so much about the hours.
I do think bringing in and playing with people you know in real life is really important. I think trying to have face-to-face time with people -- you know, all the science about the positive impact of games shows that it really matters to be in the same room as people, that there are emotions that do not translate as easily online as they do in person, the kind of emotions that bond us to each other. So if you can be in the same room as people playing, that's positive.
WoW is the kind of game that takes more of a commitment than a lot of games like Angry Birds or FarmVille. What most people play is within what the scientists have shown, this great U-curve that shows increasing benefits starting from playing an hour a day and it keeps increasing up to between 21 and 28 hours a week -- the higher end of it if you're in a really stressful situation. If your life is really difficult, even up to 28 hours can be beneficial.
But it's important. You read that advice I gave, that practical advice for gamers? It really works best if you're using the game as a springboard for real life. You can do all sorts of social interaction online that is still really great for you in real life, but if you're not doing face-to-face, it sort of creates a compartmentalized success in virtual life but not in real life, or happiness in virtual life but not so happy in real life.
So I'm really encouraging players to see that springboard, to not see that they're a different version of themselves in games than they are in real life. They're the same person – they're totally the same person. You're that awesome all the time – you just have to have the motivation to be that awesome all the time.
Read Part 1: Jane McGonigal on why gamers will change the world. Learn more about McGonigal's ideas on gaming for a better world on her website, and see her on ongoing book tour at a city near you.
Filed under: 15 Minutes of Fame






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
MattKrotzer Feb 2nd 2011 2:11PM
I was hoping for 15 minutes of Fame with Minerva McGonagall.
Drat.
Allan Feb 2nd 2011 2:14PM
i read it worng when i clicked the title and was disapointed by it not being so - but i still liked the article.
Ed Feb 2nd 2011 2:19PM
McGonagall: Potter! Weasley! What are you doing pugging Blackwing Descent at this hour?
Potter: It's Snape, professor, he's helping Voldemort poach our guild members!
McGonagall: Snape is a trusted member of our guild. Minus 1000 DKP from . Yes, Weasley, from my own guild!
Picadillo Feb 2nd 2011 2:22PM
McGonagall: Potter! Weasley! What are you doing pugging Blackwing Descent at this hour?
Potter: It's Snape, professor, he's helping Voldemort poach our guild members!
McGonagall: Snape is a trusted member of our guild. Minus 1000 DKP from [Gryffindor] . Yes, Weasley, from my own guild!
( Fixed, comment system didn't like the guild name in arrow brackets. D: )
NecDW4 Feb 2nd 2011 2:31PM
HAHA awesome!
kunukia Feb 2nd 2011 3:26PM
Very funny!
Straz Feb 2nd 2011 2:30PM
While I tend to agree with a lot of what she said, online gaming lacks one thing that real life does: accountability for your actions. Anonymity paired with no accountability breeds potential for social disorder to some extent.
That being said, the WoW community isn't terrible, it just suffers from a very vocal and inconsiderate minority.
Rubitard Feb 2nd 2011 6:46PM
That's not true. WoW has taught me much about how to act in RL! The first day of my new job, I was told to go to this office and meet a group of random people I didn't know, I told them how to do their jobs and then informed them that they are all homosexuals. Then, I took a drafting table from the art department, telling them I needed it because I might consider drafting one day. Some fool decided to get all up in my grill about this, so I quit on the spot, but not before making a bunch of calls that would make a lot of work for them after I left. It's not like I'll ever see them again. Plus, my horse was trying to eat the parking meter.
Colonel Kurtz Feb 2nd 2011 7:54PM
Rubitard, that made my day.
Halarious!
Boozard Feb 2nd 2011 9:50PM
i just got images of "world of workcraft" in my head.
Starlin Feb 2nd 2011 2:38PM
It definitely makes sense. I enjoy the game a lot more when I get together with friends to play in the same room.
Dragonrose Feb 2nd 2011 2:50PM
Pretty sound advice, me thinks. Playing with people in the same room as you is awesome, even using a voice chat client to communicate makes it better than just online text chat. I wish it was easier for me to play with people face to face, since my WoW playing friends all live AT LEAST 30 minutes drive from me. I don't have a driver's licence.
MadMac10 Feb 2nd 2011 2:56PM
I've actually been contemplating McGonigal's thesis a lot of late-- since Cataclysm came out anyway. She infers that the virtual world, like WoW, is a kind of "dreamtime"--where the spirit can work out. But I wonder if it has become more of a "nightmare-time"--perhaps even intentionally.
Lately, I've seen negative values and general douchebaggery reinforced strongly in Cataclysm game design. Take Tol Borad, for instance. Even though the spawn rate is monstrously huge, people (on my server, at least) will steal your mob from under you and then laugh about it. When our faction loses control of the Island, then flames erupt in world chat, calling everyone vile names and generally blaming others for failing to accomplish the impossible: wrest control of the zone. It's gotten so that I can barely tolerate the immature, selfish and generally nasty behavior of other players in that zone.
There's much more that seem to be weighing heavily on my spirit as I try and get through Cataclysm these days (prejudice and racism, mainly.) It really makes me wonder if spending time there is helping to make the world a better place. Maybe there is some kind of Jungian reverse-psychology going on here, but I seriously wonder. Is this reinforcing me to treat my fellow man better because I can see the general barbarism raging around me? Do the douchebags that assault my sensibility ventilate their baser impulses, and thus treat others with tolerance and respect? I suppose I will never know.
I would really like to know more about what Dr. McGonigal thinks of all this.
tarvis2 Feb 2nd 2011 3:51PM
I think that the vocal minority of idiots make it seem like that because how Often for example do you notice when someone decides not to take your mob or helps you out with a heal and you will never notice all of the people NOT ranting in trade feeding trolls ect...
tarvis2 Feb 2nd 2011 3:55PM
Also I think a good example is this site
Every so often a person trolls the coments and is negative but for the most part comments are positive and thought out ... Except on patch days
Colonel Kurtz Feb 2nd 2011 8:15PM
I research the Jungian process of Individuation and the balance between the socially affirmed identity and the rejected self-identity.
I think the negative behaviour you see in Warcraft all stems from this personal conflict. Having the opportunity to construct a new and fantastic virtual identity in a relatively anonymous peer group, sees these unfortunate people who suffer from the above imbalance behave horribly to constantly project this virtual image of make-believe awesomeness.
The answer is actively practising humility, with the danger being complete detachment. Becoming indifferent or quitting the game entirely because of this behaviour is letting the terrorists win.
This behaviour has gotten worst in Cataclysm because the game has become more difficult, which makes failing easier, which requires more make-believe awesomeness to combat.
Spankymio Feb 3rd 2011 4:38AM
I know exactly what you mean and instead of read and then ignore the vile name calling I now just /ignore anyone who says anything negative.
Blinkered, Yes. Bothered. No.
MadMac10 Feb 3rd 2011 8:31AM
Thanks so much for the kind words & supportive analysis--I really appreciate it. Good friend in-game, as well as forums such as these, do help me with my dharma. However, what I am wondering the most is if game designers can challenge (and break) McGonigal's thesis. Surely they are aware of her impact, and maybe they don't like it. Can they design a game that breaks the human spirit as much as totalitarianism does, and could Cataclysm be just that?
Teo Feb 2nd 2011 7:35PM
That's because its easier to remember the bad stuff rather than the good stuff. Dunno why it happens, but it applies everywhere:
Omg he just crossed the street when the light was red!.
Do we ever notice when someone crosses it when it's green?
Expand it everywhere.
swcdrumman Feb 3rd 2011 11:58PM
Jane Mcgonigal just did an interview on the Colbert Report ppl might want to check out. It was kind of cool to have read this article and then to see her on the show tonight.