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2-02-2011 @ 12:49PM
The attempt on Thrall was a pretty big screw-up for *someone* in the Alliance, and probably in SI:7. Had they succeeded, Azeroth would probably have been torn apart. Luckily, they were foiled (thanks to my new goblin warrior, Soylentgreen!), but lost a flotilla of ships and men and shoved the Bilgewater Cartel from neutral firmly into the Horde. Ouch.If Shaw was in on it, I question his judgement. If he wasn't, I question how much control he has over the organization. In either scenario, it doesn't look great for him, and suggests some interesting conflict happening behind the scenes in Stormwind. It will be interesting to see how all that plays out.The bigger question for me is whether King Varian was behind the attempt on Thrall. It doesn't really seem like his usual style, but he showed in the Shattering that he can be sneaky if he has to. Still, he can be hotheaded, but isn't usually stupid.
2-02-2011 @ 1:10PM
Yeah he can be sneaky, but he's also WAYYYYY too 'hands on' to just sit back and wait for someone to bring Thrall to him. This is Varian "I wander into my own ALLIES' cities" Wrynn we're talking about :pOf course this is also the same Alliance that has a cultist in the frigging throne room! I suspect (hope?) that at some point it'll be revealed the Twilight Cult has tons of sleeper agents in the Alliance and Horde, causing more and more tension between the two factions (at least that's my hope). I also think Shaw may not have as good a hold on his organization as he thinks he does. But that's just speculation based on the Anduin quests in SW :/
2-02-2011 @ 1:11PM
I infered from everything that it was a simple naval engagement that, when the Alliance won, they realized "HFS Thrall is on this boat!" and took him prisoner. It was not planned. That is what lead to the lack of planning in deciding to shoot up the goblin boat that new goblin PCs are on.
2-02-2011 @ 3:04PM
I highly doubt if it was planned that Mathias had anything to do with it... as we've seen in every bit of lore he's involved in, he plans things extremely carefully and is always thinking way ahead. He would know that kidnapping Thrall would have far more negative effects than positive especially seeing as he was no longer Warchief at that point (which with SI:7s information network Shaw would have no doubt known already) While he's still a major figure to the Horde kidnapping him at that point would accomplish nothing and Shaw is way too smart to not realize that.Personally I'm with the theory that it just kind of happened and wasn't planned. However if it was then it was someone being an idiot and trying to make a name for themselves.
2-02-2011 @ 3:17PM
@SaintsryfeThe problem is that the reason they open fire on the goblins is that they were specifically ordered to leave no witnesses, as we see in the cutscene. So it seems that this was very much an organized mission, not sheer happenstance.WHO gave the orders is the big question, but this was clearly an alliance operation (not to say that someone might not have infiltrated them...but that looks pretty bad for Shaw).
2-02-2011 @ 3:41PM
What everyone's not considering is the incident in Deepholm where the ALLIANCE Was killed by Twilight hammer ad you only find that out because you raise their -ghosts-. And there's twilight hammer swarming the barracks of Stormwind and inside the Cathedral's catacombs AND in the very throne room. Of course we don't know who planned it, or whether it was Deathwing's people or not. It could have been them who started the cannon firing and thus made the other sailors on the ship think it was an attack. The Alliance -never- get a version of the story, despite the rather significant part that they supposedly play in it. If the "Alliance" had succeeded in that mission, Thrall would have been brought to Stormwind (or killed by Deathwing) and before he had a chance to explain the heck was going on.. the world would be broken, the way Deathwing wanted. Honestly, it's Deathwing who has all the motivations to stop Thrall. And it's Deathwing who's proven he wants a PARTICULAR revenge on Stormwind. The title screen even shows him perched on Stormwind's towers. Stormwind was where his daughter was unmasked, where he has the most ties himself. The King of Stormwind, canon wise, is the one who killed Onyxia. Deathwing wants Stormwind to suffer...how better than to infiltrate and let Stormwind's troops look the ones responsible for the very sundering of the world? Remember, only one survivor was left in Deepholm and that was with his insides torn open and you have to tie him to the wheel. Until it's EXPRESSLY stated by Matthias Shaw or the King of Stormwind that THEY gave the order... I don't buy it. It makes no sense. Varian is a hothead, but he's not the type to go "Kill everyone you see, including possible merchant vessels passing by, and kidnap Thrall, who I magically know is in this location." It just doesn't add up. Sure, if it was GARROSH on the boat, I'd think it made more sense. But Thrall when there's already a warchief in charge? No, the pieces don't fit.
2-02-2011 @ 3:48PM
I guess the ultimate question is whether or not someone powerful enough to give orders to entire flotilla is working for the Twighlight Hammer. Or whther this really was an alliance operation.Varian: It doesn't seem like his style, but these are Stormwind ships and sailors, and SI:7 is involved. Could all of it happened behind his back? Is he that much out of the loop? Or did he just make a really, really bad call?Shaw: If he wasn't involved, or even if he was, his competence is surely in question unless he had ulterior motives. Given that he has always seemed utterly competent...is there any chance that he is a cultist himself? It doesn't fit with what we think we know, but it would explain a lot.X: Who else could have organized this operation? The archbishop? We know he was a powerful cultist, but how could he have been giving orders of this scale to the military without Shaw or Wrynn knowing? Is there someone who could?The more I think about it, the more I wonder about Shaw...
2-02-2011 @ 3:51PM
Just to clarify, this incident is not like others in which it is revealed that it was all Twilight Cultists in disguise, etc. This is clearly Alliance military, using Stormwind ships, etc. The only real question is whether they were somehow getting orders from a cultist, or this really was an alliance operation.
2-02-2011 @ 6:13PM
Well, we know that there are other, very senior, people in Stormwind (and Silvermoon) loyal to the Twilight's Hammer, although that revelation isn't yet in-game as far as I know. (Well, it's in game files, but the event itself can't be triggered.)
2-02-2011 @ 6:47PM
"Well, we know that there are other, very senior, people in Stormwind (and Silvermoon) loyal to the Twilight's Hammer, although that revelation isn't yet in-game as far as I know. (Well, it's in game files, but the event itself can't be triggered.)"This event was retconned.
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