Officers' Quarters: Mailbox roundup 3 -- guild leadership

Here at Officers' Quarters, I receive a number of emails every week that don't get featured in the column for various reasons (which I explained the first time I did a roundup). Once again, it's time to examine some of these shorter -- but no less interesting! -- topics. This roundup's theme is guild leaders.
High rank, low numbers
Dear Officers' Quarters,
I'm a relatively new member to an active 10-man raiding guild. Our guild is slowly pushing through Cataclysm raid content, and we are taking a slow and steady approach to progression raiding. We've downed Omnotron Defense System and Magmaw both times during our first two weeks of Blackwing Descent raiding, but now that we're considering switching gears and trying some Bastion of Twilight, we're running in to a bit of a problem: very low DPS out of some core raiders.
When we first began stepping into Cataclysm raiding, I assumed it was gear related and that, after time, our DPS would go up, making the fights much easier. However, with an almost identical core group tackling these encounters, some of the raiders' gear has improved tremendously, while I'm still seeing similar DPS on the meters.
This problem is also compounded by the fact that one of the biggest culprits of low DPS is our guild leader.
Hi, Confused.I've been a min-maxer since I became interested in raiding. I would love to help him work out the kinks in his rotation and bring up his DPS, but it's a touchy subject with anyone, especially the leader of your guild. No one likes to be told that they're doing something wrong. Also, with my current nonofficer status in the guild, I feel like I'd be overstepping my boundaries a bit if I approached him about it.
I really like this guild. However, I'd love to be able to progress past these early bosses to experience more of the content, but I just don't see that happening without people taking a more serious look at shortcomings in their performance. How can I help my guild to address this lack of DPS without coming off as the "know-it-all" new guy?
Thanks for your help,
Confused
Does your guild have a separate raid leader? I'd recommend bringing it up to him or her first. Express your concerns about the DPS as a whole rather than singling out the guild leader.
If things are going to get better, someone at the leadership level must take an interest in the DPS meters. The fact that the guild leader is part of the problem doesn't bode well for the culture of the guild changing any time soon. In that case, you may not be a good fit there, because you're only going to get frustrated when you put in so much more time and effort than most others. Most likely, you'll either have to resign yourself to slow or no progression or find a more focused guild to join.
The only ray of hope I can offer you is that DPS often improves as players master an encounter. It's easier to perform well when you don't have to think about the mechanics and you can react instinctively. Since you're new to the guild, you don't really know what your fellow raiders can do once they know a fight inside and out.
If you want to help out individuals, you might want to check out my two-part column on constructive criticism.
Rudderless
Unfortunately, if you don't want to cause conflict, then there is little you can do. Your guild leader needs to learn for himself what it takes to lead a guild. Letting the guy who puts the charter together become the guild leader by default probably wasn't the best plan, but I can't really say anything on that point, since that's how I first got the job ...Hi, Scott.
One of my coworkers is our guild leader, but mainly in title only as the one who bought the charter. In terms of leadership skill, he at times can lack both tact, wisdom, and patience, in addition to having never led a guild before.
To say the guild lacks direction and structure is an understatement. Throughout Wrath, it was never sat down and established that we need a core of leaders with experience and direction to structure the guild to achieve goals such as successful raiding, if that in fact was the goal of the guild in the first place.
Over the past 10 months, I've voiced my concerns with other guild members and occasionally to our guild leader directly. Any attempt to sit down and discuss where the guild is or what we're trying to accomplish leads to fractured discussions over raiding, raid times, characters, and a spiral of other superfluous things that don't address the real problem: Our guild has no plan. Some of us have outright stated to our guild leader that we need someone else to take over who knows how to manage a successful guild.
How can I, without causing conflict, leverage my own experience as a guild leader to shift the burden of responsibility onto myself so that I can try and steer the ship before it gets so far off course that the only options become to leave and find greener pastures?
Thanks in advance,
Anonymous
For the big issues, you can only offer him advice. Considering the way your guild is structured, it sounds like he is free to accept or reject that advice. Perhaps you could buy him a copy of The Guild Leader's Handbook and hope he reads it!
It sounds like your biggest concern is raiding. If you volunteer to be the raid leader for the expansion, it will shift the vast majority of the responsibility for this problem area onto you and away from your fledgling guild leader. You can then organize those aspects of the guild as you see fit (mostly). Maybe the organization that you bring will bleed over into other areas. That would be the only solution I can see, but the problem is that your guild leader has to agree to it.
Be careful if you are given this power. By instituting policies and structure where none existed before, you could alienate some of the original members and might even lose some players. It's for the best in the long run -- just be prepared for this.
In the end, if the guild leader isn't actively causing problems, then your guild can get by with some motivated and experienced officers doing most of the heavy lifting. The question, I suppose, is whether you and the other officers want to run a guild this way.
The perks of power
As far as the game is concerned, you do not. You get the same perks as everyone else in the guild at the exact same pace. In fact, you don't even get a reputation bonus with your own guild!Hi Scott,
I just have a question about guild leaders in WoW. As a guild leader, do you get any additional perks? Any benefits from being a leader? I've scoured the web but have found little information on this. Thank you.
C
Outside the UI, on the other hand, you get to set guild policy and determine the direction of the guild. You get the satisfaction of seeing your tough decisions and hard work bear the fruit of success. Also, running a guild is a great way to learn leadership skills that can carry over into the real world.
I would encourage anyone who has thought about it to give guild leadership a shot. The rewards are intangible, but they are no less worthy of the effort you put in.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Stormwalker Feb 7th 2011 3:20PM
Thank you for the column. It is always pretty informative in some way.
Recently (a few weeks ago), I decided to start up a 10 man guild with a friend of mine because of a lack of raiding opportunity in my previous guild. What do you (author and readers alike) suggest I do to get this guild 'off the ground'? We're starting fresh, and currently have 0/12 progress on current content in guild, so people are not likely to want to join a guild that has barely started and is still level 1. How do I get reliable people on the boat who are willing to do the hard yards to get this guild going?
I consider myself to a skillful player who has been min-maxing since TBC. I was under no illusion that it would be easy to get started, but it can be disheartening at times not to find people. I have experience with 7/12 of current content and am quite comfortable with raid leading. I have made a thread on our realm forums and we have a fully functional website/forum as well, in case you're wondering.
Jabadabadana Feb 7th 2011 4:14PM
Unless you can walk out of a guild with a functioning raid group(8-10+), and then only have to invite to pad yourself out, the odds of such a start-up guild succeeding are extremely minimal at best.
The best shot at progression is going to be joining an established guild that's farther along, and will take you with them into raids.
People start dozens of these reactionary guilds a year, and most of them fail in a month or two. It is a hard road to hoe, and made harder with little planning.
If all these guilds of 2-3 people (yes, they have more, but this is the core) all found each other before quitting prior, and then jumped and made a guild, this would work. However, amg I can't raid here Ima start my own doesn't work too well.
On the backs of 2 good raiders can no raid be carried, nor can any guild to great success.
I would suggest recruiting with a mission statement, and the experience of what raiders you do have. If you at least sound organized, your odds of getting people increase. The best people however, are already guilded in solid guilds, and you are unlikely to pick them up. It's definitely an uphill battle.
Rob Feb 7th 2011 7:22PM
Wow so negative. And its hard row to hoe. Given that you have never hoed any rows, your confusion is probably understandable.
Anyway, ignore this. Ignore the haters. ANYTIME you start a guild its always hard. It takes time, effort, and sticking with it, through thick and thin
Here are things that help
1) Huge amounts of funding. Startup costs are high. You are going to want to have your fledgling raids come prepared with enchants, gems, etc. But you want may want to provide flasks for those who don't have, and free repairs for the raid team is a good though. I funded several raid teams and the ability to repair after wiping has really been helpful.
2) A solid core. Yes 2 people aren't great. But you have to start somewhere. Great guilds have started from less. Keep plugging away, keep recruiting.
3) A solid, well written plan. This is pretty key. You are going to forget things. 'lol we want to raid' isn't enough. What is the loot policy. What is the invite policy. What is the kick policy. What is the FOCUS of the guild. Are you hell bent for leather for downing content? Or are you "serious guild who raids 5 nights a week for 5 hours straight" (No serious guild that i've ever been in, and i've been in server first guilds, have that kind of schedule. When are you raiding. What content are you raiding. What do you do in the meantime. All very important things to have written down.
4) A solid website and vent/mumble server. People need to form a community, and its alot harder when the community only exists in the game. Have a place to post your kill shots, strategies, and just general bullshitting will go very far. Having a communication server is pretty much essential. If you can't afford the $3 ish dollars a month for it, get a job. (no really - even if you have $20/month in funding that is enough to support your gaming costs)
5) Read Scott's book! Half of the book is designed for this.
Stormwalker Feb 8th 2011 3:32PM
I appreciate everyone's responses, negative or otherwise. But I'm not losing motivation just yet. ;-)
Perhaps I didn't explain the story in enough detail: My premise when starting the guild was that there ARE skillful players out there who want to raid but have not got the opportunity. They may have joined guilds but are now disillusioned by only killing Magmaw and Halfus every reset. I have talked to a number of skillful players like this who I have raided with (in GDKP runs or otherwise) on my server. It seemed the people were there, but there was no leader who was willing to step up to the plate and do something about it. This is what I wanted to do.
To answer people's questions: @winterhawk: Your idea about the PUG situation is spot on, and is something I am already working on to get going. We recently joined forces with 2 other 10 man guilds who were in similar situations as us, struggling to fill their ranks. The current plan is to run 25 man runs (more valor points, more loot, relatively easier encounters in some cases) with free rolls (MS>OS>greed) with characters from all three guilds. I will keep what you mentioned in mind about alts of skillful mains as well.
@mibu.work1: Your last sentence sums it all up pretty well.
@Gimmlette: Your thoughts on the recruitment pitch and action words are noteworthy.
@Rob: I'm still working on 1) and 2). The 25 mans I mentioned should help to identify more quality players. 3) and 4) are already in order, with the appropriate quality, I believe. 5) is something I still need to do :)
Forward progression!
Phelps Feb 7th 2011 3:33PM
It's usually easier to work on things with the guild leader and other officers like DPS. It's a simple argument. "Everyone needs more DPS. We're supposed to be the leaders, and leading by example. That means we need to show improvement ourselves, and then tell the others how we did it. If we can tell them, 'we all increased 10% this way, and (guild leader) got a 100% increase', then we should have no trouble selling it. Nothing sells like success." (You can hand-wave your part away by saying that you've always done these things.)
winterhawk Feb 7th 2011 3:40PM
@Stormwalker: What's the PUG situation on your server? If it's decent, try setting up some PUG raids--put out a call for raiders, vet them carefully (check their Armory info, achievements, etc.) and try them out. If they work out, keep them on (even if they're in other guilds) until your raid gets some bosses under its belt. If you're a good raid leader, some of these PUGs might decide to join your guild, and then you can get the core of a good raid team going which will help you recruit more.
Also, when choosing your raiders at least at first, be careful not to discount alts, even if their achievements don't look great. Some of the best raiders I know have alts that perform very well even undergeared, because their players know what they're doing and can translate that into success in another class. I once watched a guildie's freshly-85 alt (he'd dinged two hours before the raid) top the charts in a 25-man raid where several of the other members were mains (albeit casual raiders or socials) and several others were fellow raider alts.
Bottom line is, sadly, you don't have much to offer right now since your reputation is unknown and you don't have anything to show potential raiders progression-wise. This means you have to get creative! It can be done--I've seen it happen many times. You just have to think outside the box a bit.
Darkdust Feb 7th 2011 3:55PM
I'd like to see more focus on guild types other than raiding / PVE guilds. How about some more tips on PVP guilds, for example? All the World's a Stage deals occasionally with the issues that come up regarding RP guilds, at least to a degree, but I don't really see The Art of War(craft) hitting these issues for PVP guilds.
How about it, Scott?
Rob Feb 7th 2011 7:24PM
Its an issue of numbers and what he knows, I suspect. Scott is a raider, and WoW is primarly a PVE game. Maybe a guest post by a PVP or RP person is in order?
mibu.work1 Feb 7th 2011 4:15PM
@Storm
It's pretty hard to get people at this point. Those who are just starting WoW are less-than-ideal, and those from guilds that collapsed at the end of Wrath, but most of those have been snapped up by established guilds. Honestly, just look around, ask people for duels, help people with quests, and see how they work out. No better method of vetting than observing potential recruits in action. Make a tank or a healer and ask them if they wanna do a random or a heroic, comment that you could use a good tank/healer/dps and they seem to fit the bill, and you wouldn't mind a shorter que time. Essentially: Make yourself appealing and keep your eyes open, and the world will open before you.
Saeadame Feb 7th 2011 4:15PM
@High rank, Low numbers guy - if the guild leader is also the raid leader, you have to consider that he's trying to run the show and DPS at the same time. Maybe he's calling out things, coaching people, keeping an eye on who's where they're supposed to be as well as who isn't. Especially being a DPS, watching raid frames, the room, DBM, talking AND trying to good damage all at the same time is practically an art. Don't rail on your GM too hard if he's not that good at juggling those things - he's doing way more for your raid than some of the top DPSers.
Trynyti Feb 8th 2011 12:11AM
^^ THIS. When I started raid leading for our guild I noticed my DPS drop 2k. Trying to watch where everyone is, figure out why people are dying, keep my rotation up, dodge fire, etc. was just too much for me to handle by myself. I asked a couple of our other veteran raiders to help me out by calling out things in vent, like even timers. Just having 2 other guildies handle this one aspect of raids brought my DPS back up to normal.
All your veteran raiders should be handling something, to take some stress off the raid leader. Having a healing channel with a healing lead can be extremely useful for healers to work out healing assignments without the raid leader spending time on it. One (or two) raiders calling out events (even with DBM it helps to have a human reminding you). All of this help makes for a happy raid leader, and who doesn't like a happy raid leader? :)
No idea if your guild leader is also your raid leader, but even if not, he might be spending too much time focusing on other issues where someone can take the burden off and he can concentrate on his rotations.
Druanna Feb 8th 2011 11:30AM
Saedame had an excellent point.
Also, you don't know the GM's personal situation. He could have a handicap. You're assuming that he is capable of putting out more DPS - he could be playing with just one hand. I'm not joking. One of the healers in our guild is only able to play with one hand due to massive injury. He's got everything bound to mouse buttons and macro'd out the ying-yang and does really well. Still, on nights when the pain is intense and/or he's just had a treatment, his healing just doesn't cut it. We don't berate him for it, his health is much more important to us (he is such a great guy, and keeps us laughing).
It could be something simple like he needs to learn a new rotation, but then again it could be something more serious, like an injury or something that makes it a true challenge to even play, much less play like he's in Paragon. Don't assume. What some folks go through just to play this game and how well they do it despite the challenge they're facing at times flat-out amazes me.
Neirin Feb 7th 2011 4:24PM
If the Confused's guild has its own forums, I would recommend putting up basic primers on various classes/specs. If you're an altoholic like me then you at least glance at the occasional Scattered Shots even if your main is a druid (ok, I actually just like reading Frostheim, so sue me). Even if the info isn't completely accurate, hopefully someone else in the guild will be quick to correct you (in a kind, constructive manner of course) and you may actually spark discussion.
Any time you give advise (whether it be through direct contact or simply making the resources readily available) make sure you provide reasoning for the advise you give. If you don't have any personal experience playing a given spec, use questions like "I read that such-and-such is good, is there a reason you can't do it more?" If you give people a way to save face (no one likes being seen as bad) at least a little they're much less likely to get angry and defensive.
Also, make sure you've done your own research before taking someone on about their dps. If all you can say is that their numbers are too low, you're not going to do anything but cause trouble. If you have suggestions already researched you can at least engage in a real conversation about the proper rotation, etc.
Namy Feb 7th 2011 4:49PM
We have someone in our guild who always does very low dps. He's lower than the tank in most HCs but is better geared than the majority of us. This is because he is up for anything and will always want to join a raid/HC when its called out in /g so more gear opportunities.
I'm not sure what we can do about it though? How do you approach someone and tell them that their dps needs to improve for when we start raiding? There are others of the same class in our guild who would be happy to help but no one wants to say anything for fear of upsetting him. I don't really understand why he doesn't want to do something about it. If I had obviously low dps in good gear but wanted to raid I'd be /w other ppl of my class asking them about their rotation etc. When it comes to setting up our core raiding team he will definitely want to come as he is on almost every night. What to do? I guess I just can't understand why he isn't embarassed to consistently have low dps throughout Wrath and now into Cata.
P.S. I'm not elitist, I don't think everyone should have mad dps or anything but ppl in pugs have even commented on it. They think he's afking :P
Namy Feb 7th 2011 4:54PM
Just saw Neirin's post above and putting some class specific links etc on the guild forums is a very good idea. I'm going to approach my GM about that :)
Gimmlette Feb 7th 2011 5:02PM
@Stormwalker
The bad news. Progression guilds are a dime a dozen. On my server, every week (which is down from every day in December), a new guild starts with the dream of plowing through content. They spam the chat channels looking for members. Unless you're on a high population server with a lot of progression-minded people, getting new members is very tough.
Do you have a mission statement? What is it about your guild that makes you different from every other guild that's working on current endgame content? If the only thing you have to offer people is a spot in a raid, heck, I can do that and my guild isn't heavily into progression. You need to figure out what you do that is enticing to raiders. What do you have that other guilds may not? It could be something so simple as "Raiders are given raiding pots for a small donation to the guild bank." Or it could be "Allied with the number one guild on the server. You'll see endgame content." What is it about you that's special?
Once you have that, you have your recruitment pitch. "Friendly guild"? Every guild is friendly until maybe you get to know them. "Progression-minded"? If you've not downed bosses in heroic, that's progression when you do. Define it. Use action words. "Now downing [insert boss name here]. Looking for more to share the fun" or something like that.
And please, avoid telling me that you have faster leveling, remote bank perks or a guild page. Maybe you do, but until I'm friendly or better with your guild, I don't get that. I've had guild members who are revered get on their alts and not be able to access the remote bank because the alt isn't friendly yet. You'll make people mad if you promise something they have to work to get.
It's hard to get a guild off the ground. It takes work. I've thought about cashing in my chips on a few occasions. But, once you get into content with people wearing your guild tabard and down a boss, it's one of the best feelings in the world.
good luck.
Eleph Feb 7th 2011 5:05PM
As a guild leader, you do get access to extra bag slots via the guild bank. Permissions can be set in such a way where you are the only person who can access the guild bank. Maybe not a huge and exciting perk, but my banker toon is the GM and sole member of a guild.
He was doing his auctioneering in Silvermoon one day and happened upon a wayward warlock who didn't know how to get rid of the guild he ran. It came in handy near the end of Wrath when I started stupidly hoarding mats just so I could sell most of them way below market price after Cata dropped.
The one flipside in my situation is that Martinfury the banker is the GM of "That What She Said." [sic]
:)
Sky Feb 7th 2011 5:25PM
Question 1: I'd rather have a guild/raid leader who can communicate properly and come up with good strategies than someone who pulls amazing dps but can't communicate. The worst thing you could do really is bring up other people's shortcomings as the "new guy". I assure you it will not end well for you or your guild. Instead of looking at what other people is doing you should really just concentrate on what you're doing. If your guild is progressing and having fun why does it matter? If you think progression is too slow you could switch to the "server firsts" raiding guild where everyone is expected to min max.
Question 2: If you think you can do better why not start your own guild? I guarantee you that if you somehow manage to seize control, a lot of people (probably officers) will leave. If your guild has scheduled raids maybe you can ask if you can be the raid leader or if you don't have anything scheduled maybe start inviting people (including your GM, of course)
Question 3: The biggest one I can think of is taking gold from the guild bank. It accumulates pretty fast because of the guild perk but I don't think the trouble of running a guild for a couple thousand gold is worth it.
Billlop Feb 7th 2011 6:00PM
Ive recently got into a problem with my current guild.
We were one of the biggest guilds on the server. We started life as a Social/leveling guild and over time we have progressed towards more raiding and PvP while keeping the social aspect alive.
I wake up this morning to find our guild membership halved. When i ask around it appears the GM has decided to remove everyone whos under level 60 from our guild and to turn the guild into a "Social Raiding Guild" overnight. This after 8 months of being a SOcial Leveling guild.
Now im not happy. Ive been with the guild since day 1 and i know for a fact only the officers raid. Everyone else is an alt-o-holic, mild PvPer or simply enjoys leveling at their pace. To find over half the guild members (many were people i knew and were social) just gone is a horiffic thought.
I have taken it up with the GM and he said that hes "sick of lowbies leeching our perks" and that "they are only leveling so its not a big loss". Im afriad ill have to leave the guild ive been in since its birth as im a massive leveler. I level a toon to 85 then create a new toon and level that one. However, all the officers support the GMs decision (even though they wernt told about it until this morning).
Any advice what to do?
Kay Feb 7th 2011 6:30PM
Unfortunately, i'd say your only option is to leave. If he dropped a large number of people without consulting anyone, then he's a bad leader. If he wanted to change the direction of the guild, he should have discussed it, or at least given warning("We intend to become a raiding guild, you have till dd/mm/2011 to hit 85/start gearing"). It would be dickish but not as dickish as just dropping people.
You can be sure that you're not the only one unhappy about this. I'm sure the refugees will create their own new guild or merge with a friendly one, and hopefully you can slot back in with people you have fun with.
Also, "sick of lowbies leeching our perks" makes him sound like an entitled whiner, if anything he's leeching the many many 5 coppers here and there that get syphoned off into the GB.