When I first started raiding back in the days of Kara, I was happy to be raiding at all. Our raid leader was a dictator. He screamed, yelled, and threw tantrums at people in vent and in chat. Loot mid-fight during trash pulls? Booted from the raid. He held people to one set of rules and lived by a completely different set himself. Most of us sucked it up, as we felt lucky to be raiding at all. There were more than a few who raid quit and /gquit on the spot. I wish I had done the same sooner than I did.

I have since moved on to much greener pastures. I found you can "have fun with your friends" and "legitimately try to kill bosses" at the same time. And it doesn't take a dictator to have both. I just requires the leader to earn your respect, both as a leader and as a person, and to give that respect in return. That way if he messes up, we can call him on it and not expect a diatribe about how it really wasn't his fault. If we mess up, he can call us out and we feel motivated to do better. In Wrath we were bleeding edge as basically a 10-man strict (one raider liked to do 25s on the side). In Cata, we've downed nearly all the current raid bosses. We have a hell of a lot of fun to boot.

"Beatings will continue until morale improves" is not a winning strategy in the real world or in WoW. Leaders are those who make people WANT to succeed, intrinsically, and because they don't want to disappoint the team or their leader. Taking down bosses doesn't require being pushed around, belittled, and screamed at.

A successful raid usually consists of 10 or 25 people working together, under the direction of the raid leader. It does not consist of the raid leader plus 9 or 24 morons that the leader berates, scolds, ridicules, and basically drags along for *his* boss kill. A decent raid leader remembers that there are actual people behind all the toons in the raid. Screaming put downs is not going to accomplish anything.

Instead of telling someone how badly they suck in front of the entire raid, why not take the chance to talk to them after, and explain the problem. Like "You seem to be having a hard time moving out of gross stuff on the ground, is there anything you think we can do to help the situation?" It may be something as simple as making an adjustment in the video settings, to be able to see the ground effects better. Screaming "you suck" at them won't get that fixed, and odds are you will lose what could be one of your top raiders.

TL; DR:
A good leader solves problems and accepts he isn't perfect either. A bad leader screams "you suck" and blames everyone else except himself.

I don't know where in my original response I insinuated that a raid leader should be a raging bastard, nor where I suggested that everyone should ignore the raid leader's mistakes.

In fact, I do believe that I specifically stated, "they need to be able to tell THEMSELVES and the other members that they suck, why they suck, and when they suck". I also said, "they need to be the ones to make decisions, and they need to possess the CHARISMA to compellingly convince their underlings that their word is *the* word".

Note the CAPS. Please don't cherry-pick bits and pieces of what I stated to make it seem like I'm actually saying the complete opposite.

@Razzanor
You speak in absolutes and the tone of your OP certainly suggests a very specific personality type is required for the role. IME, the "dictator" raid leader is quite often a raging bastard. You don't generally get to be a dictator if that's not the case. The only raid groups I've seen which require that kind of leadership are either full of kids or trade chat trolls, and they're not going to be killing too many bosses anyway.

@ Razz,

Not so much what you said as the way you said it. It may seem that "point blank" comments to people is the best way, but some trips are more fun when taking the "scenic" route. ;) I do understand what you are saying but if I may be so bold, you do not seem to have the "charisma" to make your "word" convince people that a leader must be a dictator. Please understand that I am not so much criticizing you as just trying to explain why people down voted you.




p.s. I didn't vote either way. ;)

The point of correction: Reconciliation.

If i have to point out that someone did something wrong, i do it in a way that brings them back into our community of 9/24 other players w/o making them feel less about themselves. Yes they did something that needed to be corrected, but in the end i want them to have a good time with the rest of us. Yes sometimes it is necessary to remove someone for the whole of a community, but generally i try to fix it before wimping out and simply removing them.

I agree with you. Not that the RL should be a raging basterd, but it is hard to make objective choices when there are RL friends/relatives/partners in the raid. So you need a basic structure on how to handle those situations.

Furthermore, the RL should be a bit of a dictator, in respect to the route you'll be taking as a raid. There is one road to follow and the raidleader tells you which road that is. Also in respect to how you handle your class. As long as you are good enough to also see this about yourself.

All in all, you are right, although you could have put it in less harsh words, that it is based on rules which apply to everybody, including the RL. And there is always room for discussion, as long as it is after the raid.

If you read between the lines to what Razz is actually saying, it makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants a raging RL, nobody wants to be belittled, but that is not what Razz is saying.