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2-25-2011 @ 1:54PM
2 things I want to say here:First off, you referred to Divine Gaurdian as a raid-wide Last Stand (when this was the description you used, or could've used, for Rallying Cry).^Nitpick, next is more of an actual post:Second thing, with regards to Jaws of Defeat, I have a few ideas.The text suggests "all spell casts", so this could potentially be stacked up with mana-free spells, (most importantly - 1 pt Word of Glory). I would expect this to be changed to only proc on mana-using spell castsA duration is not specified, but there will be a different way of using this optimally depending on if the buff refreshes it's own duration upon application of a new stack or if the entire effect lasts a limited time.In the case of former possibility then it may even be optimal (for holy paladins) at least to use mana-free WoGs to extend the duration of each stack as long as possible to glean the highest benefit.If the latter possibility is true (more likely) then the best way of using it will be to use the fastest (aka instants whenever possible) cast time spells to trigger and benefit from the effect. This is due to the effect proccing on every spell cast, and due to the effect being a static mana cost reduction, as opposed to a percentage reduction.Rambled on a bit, but I've covered the 3-main possibilities for the mechanics of the trinket and how best to use it in each case - would love to see if anybody has other opinions (maths to back it up would make my day, I'd give it a try with my own napkin maths if I have the brainpower left), but any opinions are nice to see :)Final thing; I'd love to know whether other healers feel using spirit can outweight the throughput and mana pool cost of intellect - I personally find it hard to justify the use of non-int trinkets given the massive value of intellect.Love RaidRX btw, I always get a little flutter of excitement when I see the title, 'cause I know it's going to be on a subject I know about, and they're always well written, informative, and discussion-provoking. Good writing :)
2-25-2011 @ 1:59PM
The duration is specified. It says the next 10 spells cast within 20 seconds. I'm guessing after the 20 seconds is up the buff will fade.And it doesn't proc...it's an on use trinket.
2-25-2011 @ 2:02PM
Also, http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=69198 shows Fiery Quintessence (both versions) as having a 1.5 minute cooldown, as opposed to 1 minute.No idea which information is correct, but a 1.5 minute cooldown would give the uptimes as:Mark of The Firelord - 25.00%Fiery Quintessence - 27.78%Due to the similarity I think it's reasonable to expect the 25sec dur/90sec cd to be correct :)
2-25-2011 @ 2:06PM
@Lemons:Both the proc and duration I'm referring to in my post are of the mana cost reduction buff itself (it seems possible to me that it could last longer than the 20 seconds it can be applied for - maybe I'm being silly), as opposed to the window in which the buff can be applied (for 20 seconds after the use of the trinket). As for misusing the word proc, I used it to mean the application of that buff, despite it not being random.Sorry for any confusion :)
2-25-2011 @ 2:24PM
I'm just not entirely sure how viable it would be to stack it that way. Because it's an on-use effect with a cooldown, you would want to stack it to 10 as fast as possible, and I think it would be difficult to stack WoG that fast (my paladin is still kind of a baby, level 36, but isn't the only guaranteed way for HPaladins to make holy power through casting healing spells or running up and CStriking the mob?). Granted, since it's a stacking effect, you could wait until you have Holy Power, activate the trinket, activate WoG to get your first stack off (and reduce the cost of your next spell by 125).I think that the total duration of the effect is 20 seconds, personally, although it could be that the stacking mana reduction is separate (perhaps working like multi-lifebloom in ToL - you can put up multiple lifeblooms while in ToL, and when you drop out of ToL you can't extend the duration of your multiple lifeblooms, but they will continue healing for the remaining time they have). If it works that way, I would expect the stacking buff to have a 20 second duration as well, making it a 40 sec effect.The only problems I see with the trinket is that it is definitely a trinket that you would use with anticipated damage. It would not be a very good trinket to activate if shit hits the fan and you need to drop some big healing bombs without warning. For anticipated damage, though, you can look at the DBM timer for such-and-such big attack, activate the trinket in advance of the attack and start stacking the buff, ready to drop some big heals when you need it.I guess the other question would be, will it stack from any individual heals? I know resto druids can very quickly stack trinkets like Darkmoon Card: Tsunami or Solace of the Fallen with Wild Growth, because each WG HoT counts as a separate "spell". If you have it glyphed, one global will stack this effect 6 times (750 mana reduction). I expect that would be the best way to use this, as you get the benefit of the mana reduction for the longest time possible (activate, throw out an AoE heal to stack it a bunch of times, and then continue casting).Looking at the max reduction this trinket can provide... it's decent, but it would really depend on the duration to make it "great" rather than "decent," it would be a way to "regen" mana (because you're spending less, while keeping to your usual conservative healing), but not a way to give you the ability to drop expensive spells cheaply (eg my quick, inefficient heal would still cost about 5200 mana, which would make me willing to use it outside a clearcasting proc, but it's not spamable).I think, personally, I would rather go for the Athor's Abacus-esque trinket, or the one with a flat amount of spirit and an int on-use effect.
2-25-2011 @ 3:50PM
With Jaws of Defeat - I don't see why you would want to "start with single target healing and then move over to AoE healing at the tail end" as you talked about. The mana reduction is a fixed amount so as long as the spells you are casting are over 1250 mana, which most are, you get no real benefit from spending more expensive spells towards the end. Rather, what we would need to look at is the cast time to make sure we can fit 10 spells in, so whatever 10 spells you cast they need an average cast time of under 2 seconds to get this trinkets full benefit. Assuming they do you save up to 1250 + 1125+1000 + 875 + ... 125 = 6875 mana., but the cost of the spells themselves, so long as they are all over 1250 mana, doesn't matter.
2-25-2011 @ 3:52PM
What Tom said is roughly correct. It doesn't matter what order you go in, you're going to get a fixed amount saved given X number of spells cast.However, it's not a completely fixed amount of mana because the more spells you cast, the more mana you can save. So to truly optimize the mana savings from the trinket, you would want some known amount of haste to be able to pop off a continuous string of short casts, IE a priest going flash heal bananas for 20 seconds.
2-26-2011 @ 12:43PM
The whole point of this trinket is to save you mana. Popping off a few flashes of light is not going to be beneficial, since their huge mana cost is going to outweigh the benefit of getting the mana reduction sooner to the point that its not even funny. In fact, you should hardly ever be using flash of light. Go look at the holy pally article a while ago that talked about how much to cast what and such.In addition, 1 point word of glories? No thanks. it may get you the mana reduction slightly faster, but its not taking advantage of the mana reduction. You could probably use one at the very beginning of the 20 seconds, but not later. because of the GCD, it only quickens spells (and therefore mana reduction accumulation) by a short time. this means that word of glory is only slightly more effective in terms of mana reduction accumulation than, say, Divine Light. When used at the beginning, the ability to get in another spell is going to be worthwhile, since you are only giving up a small amount of mana reduction on the word of glory to get in that last spell which will have more mana reduction.(Remember, don't think in terms of "getting the mana reduction sooner", because what you're really doing is squeezing together your spells in order to fit in another, higher mana reduction spell at the end.)
2-26-2011 @ 12:48PM
what the heck... my comment was 4 times as long as that, it just didn't post all of it. CURSE THIS PATHETIC COMMENT SYSTEM.anyhow, here's my conclusion, even though you don't get to see the whole post : /Do not strive to use words of glory during this proc, especially not 1 pointers. In fact avoid using them at all, except during the first 1 or 2 casts. There was a lot of math that went into that, and i'm sorry you don't get to see it.sorry :(
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