Officers' Quarters: Directing your cash flow
by Scott Andrews 
Feb 28th 2011 at 9:00AM
Almost exactly two years ago, I wrote a column about guild bank gold and the proper use of it. The game has changed quite a bit since then. Most guilds now have a steady income from the Cash Flow perk. With the consolidation of loot tables for both raid sizes, even smaller raiding guilds can loot and sell some pretty impressive BoEs. Guilds are no longer dependent on the generosity of their own members to stay in the black.
In this new "business model," two officers are having a debate about how to use this income to the guild's best advantage. This week's email spells out their arguments:
Hey Scott,
I recently got into an argument with my friend, and we are both officers of the same guild.
We were discussing how the guild bank is to function. Specifically, I wanted to use the guild money which we got from BoE epics to make flasks for the raid at a much lower cost than AH. He didn't approve of the idea that [the] guild bank is losing money for something that should be mandatory for the raid.
My points for this are:
- guild epic BoEs are earned collectively as a group, so the gold we get are technically "shared" towards the whole raid
- guild bank money wont be used for anything else
He responds by saying that:
- guild bank money should only be used for emergencies
- a considerable amount of gbank money would make our guild look less "scratchy" (ie having 0 gold will make us look bad)
- we should not be giving free gold to members because we are already doing so much (ie leading raids, recruiting)
- he stresses that its not "necessary" to help them out, as they should be self-sufficient in preparing for raids anyways
So then the argument escalated to extremes, and I went on to saying that it doesn't matter if we spent all the guild bank giving away flasks and repairs (to now I still stand by my point), because it will help us collectively as a group to improve. Then he said what if he withdrew all the guild money and put himself in full epic BoE gear, in which it will help us collectively as well (as a raid).
I want to know what you think. Is sharing BoE epic gold with guildies a bad thing? Is the amount of gold in the guild bank really that important? What is the guild bank really used for if not for flasks? Am I missing an idea behind all this?
Sincerely and thanks,
Concerned
Hi, Concerned. When I first read your email, I was tempted to say, "You're right and he's wrong, end of story." Then I thought about it a bit more and realized that maybe the answer isn't quite so obvious. Let's examine the two opposing scenarios and weigh the benefits and drawbacks.
Officers only
What if the officers used the gold for their own purposes? They work hard to support the guild and certainly contribute more overall to the guild's success than the average member. Don't the officers deserve some benefits?
They do. Occasionally rewarding your officers can help them feel appreciated and prevent burnout. A key part of leading a guild is helping your officers to feel like their time spent supporting the guild isn't wasted.
What if you took all the guild money and BoEs and gave it all to the officers to help them gear up? Certainly the guild would benefit from this when you raid, provided your officers have the skill and the attendance to make solid contributions to your raid nights.
However, I can't deny that there would be some resentment here. After all, as Concerned points out, the money and the BoEs that the bank possesses were earned by the entire guild, not just the officers. I predict some hard feelings if you use the bank purely for the officers' benefit.
On the other hand, your officers would certainly be happy about it. One of the toughest parts of keeping a guild going is to retain officers and replace officers who leave. With this policy, you'll find it easier to keep officers and find new volunteers. Ultimately, it's a matter of weighing such a generous reward for your officers against the fallout among your regular members.
If you're going to proceed in this fashion, you should put this policy in writing. Such a practice should never appear to be a back-door deal. Everything should be out in the open, and notes should be kept about who received what.
The other part of this argument is that the guild should stay well-funded for emergencies and for the appearance of wealth. Here's where I don't quite follow it. I can't recall ever experiencing a guild emergency that could be solved with gold. The closest thing I can imagine would be when an important new crafting recipe is added to the game, such as the new meta-gem cuts in 4.0.6. But how often does that happen that you need to hoard gold just in case?
As for the appearance of wealth, I really don't see it as an issue. I doubt that a new recruit is worried about the guild's stockpile.
Sharing the wealth
Concern's plan is to use the guild's wealth, including gold from sales of BoE items, to benefit all raiding members by providing flasks. This plan could also be extended to food, potions, enchants, gems, and other items that raiders require, as well as repairs.
The benefits here are rather obvious. Everyone, including officers, could save their own money, and the raid leader would be assured that everyone was fully prepared for every raid.
By doing so, you'd allow your raiders to have more cash on hand to buy or craft upgrades for themselves, so it's possible that it would even out compared to equipping the officers directly. More importantly, you'd earn goodwill from all of your raiders. That can go a long way if the guild finds itself struggling for a while. Your members may be less likely to jump ship if they have to give up their freebies by doing so.
A compromise
Perhaps the best solution is a compromise: Provide certain amenities such as feasts and cauldrons to everyone (either for free or at a discount), while expecting your regular raiders to fund their own enchants and gems. Meanwhile, you could offer your officers the perk of free gems or free enchants. That way, your officers feel rewarded and your members don't feel neglected.
You can also use your guild's gold to provide incentives. For example, you could encourage better attendance by creating a special rank for raiders with 90% or greater attendance. That rank could have access to guild bank repairs.
However, don't run your bank into the ground in a fit of generosity. Do the math and make sure you can cover everything you plan to provide before you promise it. Multiplying things by 25 means the costs ramp up rather quickly.
Also, keep in mind that even the juiciest BoEs will decrease in value over time, particularly once the next raiding tier is released, so try to sell them quickly. Every day they sit in a bank vault, they lose value.
A guild's gold is just another resource to be managed like any other. If you don't spend it on something to help somebody, you're wasting it. In my opinion, it's better to spend too freely than to lock it away in a vault and let it gather dust. If there's one true thing about WoW, it's that you can always make more gold if you need it.
/salute
Join us to learn how to survive the leveling process, deal with guild perk freeloaders, and discuss the guild talent controversy or the guild reputation system. Send Scott your guild-related questions and suggestions at scott@wowinsider.com; you may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Elleyna Feb 28th 2011 9:10AM
Our guild uses flask cauldrons each raid, but we handle it a little differently. One officer will collect anywhere from 150-250g (depending on AH herb prices) from whoever wants to use the cauldron and that will guarantee you 2 flasks (1.5 hours each, 3 hour raid). Considering flasks on my realm are still 150-200g a piece (for agi flasks anyways), this definitely saves me some money. On the topic of the guild bank money though, we're allowed to use that for repairs during our raids. I like this since on certain nights (depending on if we're working on brand new content) repair bills can get quite high.
Scard Feb 28th 2011 9:25AM
My first guild had a policy regarding raid drops (at the time Nether Vortexes as we progressed through SSC). It was agreed upon in a guild meeting in vent, that they would all go into the guild bank to be used by the active raiders as they needed them. The real scenario is that it was a back-door deal where they all went to the officers. This all became clear when I had the mats for a couple of craftable pieces that just needed vortexes to complete. I requested the two vortexes I needed, but was shot down multiple times by multiple officers. It's not like I wasn't a regular raider, I was 2nd in attendance, ahead of the raid leader, the guild leader and every single officer. When I called out the officers for this back-door deal, what I got was a diatribe from the raid leader about how they REALLY belonged to the officers and not the raiders. Needless to say, that was the end of my relationship with that guild.
Personally, I agree with what Scott said at the very beginning. "Concerned . . . You're right and he's wrong, end of story." You got them as a raid group, they belong to the raid group. Any gold you get from the sale of these items should go toward the raid group (be it flasks, feasts, enchants, gems, repairs, etc.)
Noctune Feb 28th 2011 9:26AM
We have been using the Guild bank for Flask / Food before each raid
we have always had the cost at 50% ah prices but since the new perk we have droped the price to free. We recomend our members to donate BoE blues to the bank and all recipies that drops are put in the bank.
Its free to ask for items from the bank but we have a 1 week Rising sun principle, 1 week after first request the item is delivered if no other member request it. if they do they have to be online at the same time and roll for it.
to be honest just by selling of old crap / shards from raids etc we have never had any problem with not having herbs enough for flasks or food for foodbuffs.
It could be that we are cassual guild and that all pitch in .... Herb farmers donate a few stacks, Crafters put up blue items ... , fishermen gather enough mats for food.
I don't see a problem with you using the gold for flasks, also since the Cauldrons are there makeing the regents before hand and handing out flask is more Cost efficient....
take a toll cost for the cauldron use if you want to but asking everyone to bring there own flasks is not very cost efficent.
poilbrun Feb 28th 2011 9:27AM
I understand where the other guy is coming from. I was a raider in vanilla and back then, you had to make sure you came to the raid prepared on your own. And I'm not just talking gold for potions (I don't think flasks were already in the game and if they were, I'm pretty sure they got removed if you died), but also stuff like runs in Stratholme to get Stratholme water to use against the skeletons in the Nefarian fight. That meant that raiders were working to prepare for their raids and also brought the guild together (we did most of these Stratholme runs in-guild).
Today, it feels like once you start raiding, you could potentially only login to raid and wouldn't need to play that character for anything else. And I have to say that yes, as an old-timer, it irks a little to see someone for the first time of the week on Wednesday night for a raid, when I spend all my evenings of the week and some time during the weekend running guildies through heroics to make them ready to raid with us.
The other problem is that, if you don't spend your gold that way, there's nothing for a guild to spend it on. And just like in real life, sitting on a pile of money does not do any good to anyone...
Bosstone Feb 28th 2011 10:29AM
I recognize where you're coming from , but it's that very idea of "raid half the week, prepare for raiding the other half of the week" that makes raiding look unappealing for a lot of people. I have other stuff I want to do during the week.
One idea for compromise: If the guild uses a point system for distributing loot, incorporate flasks into the system. You can 'buy' flasks off the guild bank, but it means you have a little less for loot than the raiders who bring their own stuff. If you want to give a perk to officers, let them be able to take flasks off the guild bank without spending points.
Bullwraith Feb 28th 2011 11:12AM
Flasks were in the game, lasted two hours and persisted through death. You did not see a lot of them because they required the rare Black Lotus (which was bop most of the 1st year of the game) and had to be made at an alchemy lab. In the beginning there was just one lab - Frostwhisper's room in Scholo. When BWL opened there was (still is) another lab beyond the Suppression Room area.
Felinae Feb 28th 2011 9:50PM
The other problem with Flasks in vanilla (other than Black Lotus being BoP until the Naxx patch) was that you had to get lucky to get the recipes as they were rare drops.
Some recipes were rarer than others.
Gossamer Feb 28th 2011 9:28AM
What in the world would constitute a Warcraft emergency for which bank funds would be used? Sounds to me like some one wants to hog the guild profits. I *personally* donate flasks and food to the guild, I have no idea why some one would not want to put some of the guild's money toward it, especially money that was earned by raiding.
swelt Feb 28th 2011 10:32AM
What if the next tier of raiding required you to deck out your entire raid in shadow or frost resistance crafted gear? What if one of your tanks quits and you need to fast-track a DPS or Alt into the role to keep raiding? That's the closest thing to an 'emergency' that I've come across and while I honestly don't expect Blizzard to drop that kind of thing on us any more, in the past it's been smart to keep some kind of reserve in hand.
ulths Mar 15th 2011 5:05AM
Giving officers free enchants or free repair well that would be unfair i would most definaly leave such guild... one exception would be that if raiders those that raid and show every single raid get also these then it would be fair i would stay in... but if its only for officer then i would just think greedy bastards leave. Ouh personally to me gold is not problem for me i can farm gold for mats buy enchants homever certain enchants require maelstrom reagent it still costly should be covered from guild bank, but i dont think it is problem to anyone to farm mats 3-4 flasks or buy them ah.. So this is what i think guild should provide flask if someone forget to buy it before raid, but all members should still need to get their own flasks and food buff (ofc there will feasts but if you die feast wont be made for you, keep your own food just in case)
perderedeus Feb 28th 2011 9:42AM
Our guild hosts two 10man raiding groups and a variety of other players (PVP, casuals, etc.). We're fairly sizable, and had a decent guild bank 'kitty' saved up prior to Cata. Once we reached 'Cash Flow' we opened the gbank up for daily repairs, 50g a day, to all members. We thought this might be a little high at first, but it hasn't become a problem, especially having reached Cash Flow Rank 2.
Our crafters do a lot of work on their own, particularly the alchemists for our raid groups, but the gbank is there to help them out when they need it. Each raid group has at least one guild officer as a member and they can funnel money or materials around as required. BoE epics typically go into the gbank for the guild to use, but under a Restricted tab that requires officer access to withdraw - this way, members can request an item in there, and we officers can discuss and decide. Also, our officers are all Authenticator-enabled accounts.
mazca13 Feb 28th 2011 9:49AM
If your guild is sufficiently raiding-focused that providing flasks etc will benefit most of your members, then I'd absolutely say it's the best way to use guild funds. Guild gold tends to amass with the Cash Flow perk and this is one of the better ways to use them in a fair and productive way.
Firestyle Feb 28th 2011 9:52AM
My guild historically had provided guild repairs and flasks (in wrath) as well as fish feasts for raids. While I think this is a good use of guild funds, it has the propensity to develop raiders who don't come prepared. I had to slap a few people around at the beginning of cata since they didn't come prepared and guild bank funding was too low after 11 months of wrath to provide them at such high cata prices. In the same right, players didn't know what Therazane was and why they needed their best shoulder enchant.
jad Feb 28th 2011 9:59AM
It's been fairly standard practice in guilds I've been in that flasks and boes(if not ahed) are half price, food is free (has been usually provided by other members) and enchants are free for your mainspec (half price if not). Generally you're expected if claiming free stuff to be actively participating in raiding and contributing whatever mats or other services you can.
I usually make my own food but definitely pick up flasks for raids. Neither of the guilds I've been in were EVER wanting for gold either (easily min 20k in the bank during wotlk, I think both sit much higher than that these days, we didn't sell raid spots or achievs or anything either), despite purchasing lots of mats for pots. I think what's tended to happen is if you're generous with your raiders they're generous right back. Not spreading the wealth seems to just breed drama.
bubbap51 Feb 28th 2011 10:00AM
We had been using the extra money we'd collected into finishing [Better Leveling Through Chemistry]. This has filled our gbank with flasks as well as given us the {Big Cauldron of Battle} for raiding. Now it is back to using the guild bank to fund our repairs on progression bosses and loaning out gold to members for 10% interest.
Nuit Feb 28th 2011 10:08AM
I'm a bit confused by Concerned. I am an officer, and we institute homework for our raids. We have people gather up the materials for flasks (cauldrons) and food(feasts) to get it ready for raid times. Everyone has the same amount of homework, and they do it because this is participation and they want to succeed as well. We only use our guild bank for repairs during raid. If it gets low we lock it down. I do not see any reasons for using guild moneys to buy usable items for alchemy or cooking. Should the guild not be involved in this as well?
Bosstone Feb 28th 2011 10:30AM
What else are you gonna spend guild money on?
Lissanna Feb 28th 2011 10:10AM
My guild has a fabulous officer whose job it is to manage the guild bank, and we're able to provide flasks for a lot of guild members (especially now with cauldrons), along with having food (yay fish feasts), plus enchants & gems available for raiders. We work as a team to stock the bank with herbs and fish and everything else because we know we'll get something out of it. The higher rank you are in the guild, the more you can withdraw from the guild bank (so that there is a reward for loyalty and attendance). We can't afford to provide repairs right now, but at times where flask prices are lower, we hope to enable that feature, too. We've also been working with our crafters to get BOE epics made for our raiding team as much as possible (especially for tanks & healers).
If you want everyone to be self-sufficient and never use bank funds, then you should be /randoming the epics & greens & shards that drop in raids for the guild members to sell themselves. The very act of stockpiling gold you don't use in a guild bank is pointless right now (the overly expensive price of flasks + needing to work together to make cauldrons = the "rainy day" IS TODAY).
So, either find ways of sharing the wealth (such that money in = money out every week), or stop hoarding everything for the guild bank, because hoarding without sharing makes your guild look sketchy. You don't have to spend more on the guild than is donated or earned thru raiding - you can make only some of the bank tabs available and put limited supplies based on what your guild can afford, and put a cut-off point where you say that funds will stop being spend when you reach X amount of gold (for our guild, we stop providing flasks when the guild bank's funds drop dangerously low and ask for more donations before we open the supplies back up again).
However, having a fully functioning bank where people can get what they need (but are expected to donate what they can provide) makes our whole guild happy and works well as a recruitment tool.
Z4focus Feb 28th 2011 10:40AM
This is off topic but still relating to guilds. My wife and I are the only members in our guild (once in a while her cousin will log in) and we can not figure out how to get more "guild XP" to lvl our guild. We probably can't but was just wondering if anyone has had this issue or if there was an answer to this. Being just 2 of us we don't get the "guild run" credit.
Wolfshanze Feb 28th 2011 2:03PM
And your guild never will lvl if it's a husband/wife and/or "personal storage bank" type of guild.
Both above uses are unintended off-shoots of what a guild is 'supposed' to be. Blizz designed guilds as social structures for various things, not the least of which is 10/25 man raiding, and hence the lvling system is designed with a 10/25-member minimum guild in-mind.
A guild of 1 or 2 people simply will not lvl anytime this century. You're either going to have to extend guild membership to others who actively do things (quest, dungeons, raids, etc), or give up completely on the notion of ever leveling a 2-man guild.