Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Are Cataclysm gear ilevels too big a jump from Wrath?
by Jake Evers 
Mar 2nd 2011 at 8:00AM
Throughout Wrath, I spent the vast majority of my time in game on my max-level main character, with just a few hours /played on alts at various stages along the road to being forgotten. With the onset of Cataclysm, however, I found myself motivated to level an alt to the level cap for the first time. After a few days questing, I succeeded in bringing my up-and-coming alt from Un'Goro Crater to the quest leading into Hyjal.
Thanks to the time spent on my main, my fresh lvl 80 alt was well-resourced. In addition to carrying pots and foods, I stormed into Hyjal wearing heirloom chest, shoulders, weapon, trinkets, and even a spiffy new heirloom cloak. I was ready to rock, and having come straight from Icecrown, I expected to be able to pull two to three mobs at a time without exerting much effort.
As it turns out, Hyjal is not Icecrown. I soon found out through a process of trial and error -- well, mostly error -- that I could barely survive one mob without popping cooldowns and potions. My response? "But Cataclysm content wasn't this hard on my main!"
Once I completed a few quests and received my first upgrade as a reward, I realized what the problem was: My gear was 100 item levels too low. Aside from my heirlooms, my alt was wearing blues and greens from questing in Icecrown -- ilvl 174 gear, at best. The mobs were much more difficult on my alt because he wasn't wearing anything remotely close to the ilvl 264 gear my main had brought!
What gear were you wearing when you took the plunge into the new Cataclysm content, and how did you fare? Do you feel the new zones are well-tuned for characters coming straight from leveling in Northrend? Is the ilvl jump from 174 to 272 too drastic or a necessity?
| Yes | |
|---|---|
| No | |
| Only for non-raiding characters |
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
MichaelBerean Mar 2nd 2011 9:19AM
In the Wrath to BC transition I did not replace any gear on my toon that had not raided *at all* until level 77 (bracers). This was with no BoA gear (I'm not sure it even existed at the time). I only replaced two more at 78 and one at 79. I was still using some of those pieces well into 5 mans at 80.
That was not fun.
The Wrath to Cataclysm transition was a lot more fun in part because I got actual upgrades from the quests, even on my raiding main.
Tim Mar 2nd 2011 9:21AM
IT SUCKED! Took my fresh dinged 80 to Vash and got squashed so bad! Ya'll are crazy. I just went with the greens I had on from Storm Peaks and it was rough. I then went to Hyjal instead where NPC's kinda help you and it was ok from then on. But to say it's easy; sorry, I cry hogwash.
Kylenne Mar 2nd 2011 9:46AM
Vashj'ir is slightly more difficult than Hyjal, just like Borean Tundra was slightly more difficult than Howling Fjord. If you're having trouble in Vashj'ir, knock out a few Hyjal quests for the quick upgrades and go back.
Get familiar with your class' survival toolbox and you won't have any problems, even on a freshly dinged 80. Every class has one, even clothies. Use CC if possible, that helps a lot. Even classes without much in the way of CC (like DKs or Warriors) have defensive cooldowns. Go slow and use controlled pulling. Interrupt casters and use your stuns. Kite mobs and don't stand in whirlwinds/fires. Adjusting your spec to include more defensive-oriented talents is also helpful. Practice this stuff in the early zones, because the mobs only get more HP and hit harder as you level.
The only "problem" here is that outside of soloing certain elite group quests, early BC and Wrath content can pretty much be roflstomped through without much thought, especially since you don't have to progress through the higher zones anymore to level, and it doesn't work that way in Cata.
Axolotl Mar 2nd 2011 9:34AM
I found that it makes a big difference what zone you pick to level from 80 to 82. The underwater zone is a deathtrap of insanely fast spawning hardhitting mobs, with quests where you have to lose the fight at the right time (but with enough HP left to fall from a height without dieing) and totaly similar gear-rewards as mount Hyjal ... which is easier to handle as long as you don't try to AOE the place.
On my alts I tend to avoid the underwaterzone untill max level, then I do it because I actually like that zone.
jp Mar 2nd 2011 9:36AM
I think it is but have managed. My Raiding characters did not really feel any sort of ramp up when they began Cata quests.
My Alts that had just questing greens really really struggled and spent quite a bit of time running back from the graveyard. Even if they managed to get through a fight without an add they were usually spent and needed a rest before the next one.
Cecil9631 Mar 2nd 2011 10:54AM
I leveled tailoring while working on my warlock alt. When I hit 80, I was able to craft myself a full set of greens with all the cloth my main had saved up. Had no issues jumping into Vash'ir to start quests, didn't even notice a difference in difficulty. If you have the resources, crafted gear at 80 can make a world of difference.
Redielin Mar 2nd 2011 9:39AM
There's an ilvl jump between each expansion's content. The first few zones are designed for toons like the OPs alt - just finishing up the last zone. For Cataclysm, that means its going to be *tough* for those toons until they finish a few quests and get gear. Just like it is tough for a ilvl 264 toon to do places like Deepholm or Uldum until they replace some of their gear with quest rewards from those zones. You also might try changing up your rotation, you might be trying to use abilities in a way they aren't meant to be used in Cataclysm. Otherwise...
Working as intended.
Matt Mar 2nd 2011 9:45AM
I was pretty annoyed that my Quel'Delar was replaced with some random green axe I got less than 10 quests into Vash'jir. And it wasn't because of something stupid like slightly better stats or anything; the damage on the green was significantly higher! Back in TBC and Wrath epics, especially top- or close-to-top-tier epic weapons, lasted you a few levels at least. I remember my epic sword from CoT Hyjal (a T6 raid) was equal to a Wrath level 80 green.
Kylenne Mar 2nd 2011 9:59AM
Your Quel'Delar could have gotten replaced by the first boss in ICC. It was a nice weapon for its time, but it was hardly the equivalent of Shadowmourne, even during Wrath. At BC launch, random greens that dropped from the first boar you killed in HFP were massive upgrades to much harder won Tier and epics. There's really no comparison. Higher ilevel epics, as opposed to pre-raid stuff like Quel'Delar, don't really start getting replaced until Deepholm/Uldum.
At Cata launch, my main was in a mix of 251/264 gear, including heroic T10. Most of that gear didn't start getting replaced until I was a fair bit into Deepholm, because the tier bonuses were too good. By the time I got to 85, the only Wrath epic I still had was my exalted Ashen Verdict ring. Cata struck just the right balance, IMO.
xdpirate Mar 2nd 2011 9:55AM
I think that the jump was way too big.
epicrates_ Mar 2nd 2011 10:01AM
I dinged lvl 80 on my main on christmas eve so I'm fairly new to the game. So, I had no heirlooms or anything fancy, just the gear I got from questing+dungeoneering in wrath. I had no problem with the gap. I just kept on equipping pretty much quest item I got and it wasn't that special.. I didn't even notice any particular "leap" actually, i was just shocked how good items i got from quests. Part of this was probably that I leveled as Blood DK, so survivability was my strenght.
The people who are saying it was too much, consider these: did you play in proper spec, don't expect to survive in that fancy max-dps-only spec. did you expect you can pull whole of hyjal and survive? Just adapt to the difficulty and enjoy.
Ok, maybe I wasn't used to "easiness of wrath" because I'm a "noob" but still.. how can "noob" have no problems when you "pros" do? (and to be clear, there's nothing I hate more than people who use the word "noob")
kobelayton Mar 2nd 2011 10:01AM
Seems like the situation on the post is not that Cata iLevels are too high, but that Cata iLevels are a result of the massive jump in iLevel during Wrath. Were there only 3 tiers instead of 4, you'd have smaller iLevel in Cata. Feel free to correct any of this:
Original WoW iLevel: 1-88
TBC iLevel: 87-151
Wrath iLevel: 138-277
Cata iLevel: 272-430?
So I believe that as gear keeps going up seemingly exponentially, so will the gap between the last quest rewards and the first in the newest expansion.
unpoloart Mar 2nd 2011 10:02AM
I think the gap between the 70-80 and 80-85 was mostly the same for me, because I remember on the wrath xp, I was replacing my pieces after 73, but really until 78 I replaced most of my gear. I started wrath with mostly t4/sunwell badge gear; for cata I was t11mostly (264-277).
On cata at 84 I replaced most of my gear, but a little faster then in wrath. I found that Twilight Highlands was a little harder then the rest of them, I couldn't just pull 3 mobs and be sure they will go down easy. On dungeons however, you couldn't just AoE pull every trash.
But the truth is, iLevel doesn't even really matter to perform well, you need to consider the stats you have, I always tried to retain some balance within my stats. That is the real key to perform well.
My main is a lock, and I always tried to balance haste and crit to a certain %, so my DPS is good enough even iLevel is low. It is not all about just "oh, 40 iLevel more, GIVE ME!".
What annoyed me was the iLevel cap for heroics, since I saw a lot of people buy some cheap cloaks or rings that weren't even for their class (a lock had a Str cloak on the bag) they were going to heroics with crap of gear, and perform poorly. I wish there was something to do about it.
Name Anonymous Mar 2nd 2011 10:07AM
There is a huge rampup in ilevel and stats as you level through the Cata zones.
I feel that =the main reason for this is that we're only leveling 5 levels (instead of 10) in Cata. If Cata had raised the level cap to 90, the ramp up in ilevel and stats would have been a bit slower and therefore would've seemed a lot smoother.
Also, if this had been a 10 level expansion, the first zones (Vashj'ir/Hyjal) could've been tuned to hit slightly less hard.
The question becomes, is 5 levels per expansion a permanent change? Or will blizzard go back to 10 level per expansion?
pinteresque Mar 2nd 2011 10:09AM
I'n not concerned about the ilvl jump, I'm concerned about the scarcity of 359 gear to fit certain slots - my main's wearing all sorts of raid gear but is still wearing 333 bracers because nothing else has dropped. And the fact that the only 359 caster staff without spirit on it is an archaeology drop is depressing to say the least.
Ah well.
Baba Mar 2nd 2011 10:12AM
This is exactly what was experienced with the vanilla -> BC jump, and to a lesser extent BC -> wrath.
Man up really.
SamLowry Mar 2nd 2011 1:10PM
And what was your gear like by the time each new expansion arrived? Hard purple or greens and blues?
What we're arguing is that anyone who created a new character for Cata (say, a worgen or goblin) will be savaged mercilessly if they dare to enter Vash or Hyjal wearing greens and blues.
Brend107 Mar 2nd 2011 10:18AM
I don't know what class you were playing but as a fire mage that had BoAs and nothing but greens from wrath since I leveled him to 80 months before wrath and didn't touch him afterward. I tried nuking ( or whatever shooting a fireball for 10% something's health is called) down the rock elementals before they even touched me, but as you would imagine that didn't go too well.
I eventually had to relearn all the fire mage's utilities for slowing, rooting, and stunning a mob and after a while I got the hang of it and it made soloing very entertaining because of how difficult it was. I could only take two mobs at once and that was only if I could sheep one and even after that I would come out nearly dead.
By the end of Hyjai I could kill two mobs without too much of a problem so gear does matter a lot in the beginning but if you learn the class you're playing and use all of it utility it could be a very entertaining grind to 85.
Grovinofdarkhour Mar 2nd 2011 10:23AM
My main came through in 264s, and my healer alt in 251s-264s.
Then came the rogue - he was still in Dragonblight when Cata hit (74 or 75, I think), so when he finally dinged 80 and went to Hyjal, it was a little rougher. Not totally impossible, but it became normal to die every few pulls (usually from an unintended add picked up during combat). Luckily my wife's DK arrived around the same time, so we've latched the two together.
Now they're 82 and bickering over mining nodes in Deepholm. :)
Grovinofdarkhour Mar 2nd 2011 10:35AM
Oops. Regarding item levels, he had 4 or 5 heirlooms but the rest was all quest rewards - ilvl anywhere from 138-174. Being my third toon, it was pretty obvious this time around that I needed to always pick the quest reward that provided the biggest ilvl bump (something my main didn't fully realize in the early hours of 12/7). So replacing a piece of gear with something 100 ilvls higher became commonplace.
I understood and didn't resent the difficulty of the zone, but yeah, numerically, the huge ilvl jump seemed silly and unnecessary. What would have been so horrible about Hyjal quests awarding ilvl 245 gear? That would have been plenty impressive enough for the non-raiding toons, and God forbid our raiding toons get a couple more weeks' use out of your T10.
I guess what I'm saying is, it seemed like the whole thing was designed specifically to make clear that even hardcore raiders should automatically dump their very best purples the moment the first new green shows up with a higher item level, and I don't get why they found that necessary.