Drama Mamas: The combustible combination of minors and romance
by Robin Torres 
Mar 4th 2011 at 9:00AM
This week, we tackle a topic that I find rather scary, as a mother of a budding drama queen and gaming geek.
Hi,
This may be way beyond the kind of thing you can help with but my guild has recently suffered a few bits of drama that have revealed a worrying situation and I'm having a hard time working out what to do next.
About a month ago a young girl (mid teens) joined the guild, we don't have a specific age range although as a casual end game guild we expect a certain level of maturity. She didn't interact much with the guild although one guy who helped her out a bit she really latched onto. She wouldn't run heroics unless he was there and they often moved into different vent channels to be alone. After a couple of weeks we had to kick her from the guild as she simply couldn't take criticism. It also turned out that she had recently been pulled out of school due to depression although some of the higher level officers in the guild were speculating on if that was genuine or was an excuse.
So she was kicked, the guy who she had been hanging around with started complaining that she was stalking him, despite several people telling him he should ignore her he kept her on his real friends list. Then one night he got drunk and started harassing a female member of the guild basically acting in the same way he described the girl acting towards him. For some reason he ended up forwarding her an e-mail the girl had sent, she forwarded it onto the guild master and myself and he was quickly booted from the guild.
The reason for the boot was that the letter made it clear that the girl was obsessed with him (to the point of offering her virginity to him), the guy was nearly twice her age so this in itself was worrying. However, the main reason for the boot was the clear indications that he was encouraging it, including her apologizing for the times he said she was ignoring him. At that point we didn't want anything to do with him in the guild.
Since then we know that he is still in close contact with her, they can often be seen doing dailies together for example. The girl has clearly put herself in a very vulnerable position and all the evidence suggests that he is taking advantage of it. I have raised a ticket in game to see if they can contact her parents, I know they play the game but don't have any idea who their characters are but maybe the billing information will help. The ticket appears to have reached the front of the ticket queue and is presumably being passed around internally at blizzard as the estimated response time has said "soon" for over a day.
I'm not from the US so don't actually know what kind of laws or organizations there are for these kinds of situations. I feel it is very important to let her parents know so they can decide how to pursue it, but so far I've not been able to connect her name and e-mail address to anything that might give her parents name or e-mail address.
Any ideas how I can proceed? Or even if I should?
Hope you can help
Powerless To Prevent
Drama Mama Lisa: Powerless, the actions you've taken are entirely reasonable and responsible, given your relationship to the pair involved. That said, I don't think further action would be either reasonable or responsible.Despite the decidedly suspicious appearance of these former guildies' current behavior (somewhat complicated here by the fact that you haven't shared any details about "all the evidence" that you cite), you really have no proof that the guy hasn't decided to fly right and give this girl some friendly support. While I support your effort to contact the girl's parents based on the past warning flags alone, it's important to remember that you really have no idea what the current situation actually is. Nothing good can come from pressing on about a situation in which you're now completely out of the loop.
All that aside, the worst possible thing you can do right now is to create more drama. Please don't do or say anything to anyone involved in game. We all know what happens when circumstances and authority thwarts young love; don't build romantic walls this young lady will feel irresistibly compelled to scale.
While we obviously can't guarantee that Blizzard will act on your in-game petition, we've found that the company's been pretty responsive to situations that pose a real-life danger, especially when minors may be involved. You might try a final contact to Blizzard via telephone, where it might be easier for you to express the gravity of your reservations and more difficult for a rep to gloss over the situation.
Drama Mama Robin: I would like to point out specifically what made your guild's actions both reasonable and responsible, Powerless:
- Actions speak louder than words. You let the behavior of your guildies speak volumes. And you act when their behavior makes other guildies uncomfortable.
- You don't act precipitously. You gather evidence and make rational decisions.
- You went through the proper channels. Contacting a GM was the exact right thing to do. They have the information and the power to at least inform responsible parties, if not authorities.
Everything that Lisa says is correct, so I'm going to turn my attention to readers who are parents. How do we prevent our minor children from putting themselves in danger? We've seen many times before that online relationships can be intense for adults. They can of course be even more so for teens. After all, everything is more intense for teens.
- Ask to meet online friends. You ask to meet their offline friends, right? Since we've established many times that real people are real people no matter how you communicate with them, you should treat online friends the same way you do physical ones.
- Put gaming computers in a central location. Teens have been communicating surreptitiously since the dawn of man, but there's no reason to make it easy on them. You don't need to look over their shoulders every moment they are online, but this will put a damper on inappropriate relationships and behavior.
- Play WoW with your teen. I'm not saying to play together all the time or even that you have to group together. But do play on the same server with overlapping play times on a regular basis. In this week's letter, guildies were able to see the issues in this relationship long before the email was forwarded. You can observe interactions and behavior in the same way, without invading privacy. I wrote a lengthy guide on this subject a year ago, if you'd like to read more.
It's a fine line to walk between allowing children enough personal freedom to grow, while still protecting them from danger. If you are a parent, how are you dealing with protecting your teens online?
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Ice Mar 4th 2011 9:23AM
Lately I've been wondering about these type of situations. Is kicking from guild really the best option?
I mean it gives drama still and kicking might increase it(seen that a lot), but reason why I would keep those type of people atleast on friend list (I've had ton of drama people on my msn still) and reason I keep them is because I can keep eye on them. I feel like noone else cares enough so it falls to me to baby sit said people, its rough "job" to do but someone has to do it eh? Or sometimes I'm afraid if I dont keep them on friend list they will go against you very easily.
So what are other peoples opinions on these type of things then? Should you keep them somewhat close so you can keep eye on them easier and maybe be the "no, you may not do this" voice of reasoning.
Then again, I would prolly kick them out of guild too since I dont want drama on guild, but also keep some way to be able to keep eye on them still. Keep your friends close and enemies even closer? :(
Andostre Mar 4th 2011 1:10PM
Ice, it's not your place to keep an eye on the social interactions of anyone, and unless there's something you're not telling us, you're not qualified or empowered to do so. If you see something worrying or illegal, submit a ticket. This game is Blizzard's responsibility, and they have the proper tools for reacting appropriately.
threesixteen Mar 4th 2011 2:37PM
no reason here to downrank a post that simply offers some genuine questions for discussion.
Pyromelter Mar 4th 2011 4:59PM
I agree with Ando, and would like to add the following 2 points:
1. People make mistakes, whether you are watching them or not... you can't stop it.
2. Inserting yourself into a situation like this can cause you a lot more harm than you realize, and since you can't stop it (point 1), it's generally a bad idea to do so.
I think the guild was correct in what they did, they basically made it known that they felt the behavior of both people were wrong, and were not going to tolerate it. Unfortunately I think that is all they could do; kudos to them for doing the best they could in a tough situation.
PaulC Mar 4th 2011 9:30AM
I am confused, should herb gatherers have all the romance!? As a miner, I demand to be allowed to have romant... oh, you mean, oh. Well. Never mind.
I also applaud the action taken by the guild. I have lead a few guilds in other games and we have had a "no minors" policy (unless its a guild members child). That in itself has lead to drama, but I feel like ultimately its less. Anyway, bravo to helpless and to the answers provided by the drama mamas.
PaulC Mar 4th 2011 9:43AM
sorry
bravo to Powerless.
:D
shomechely Mar 4th 2011 9:32AM
Robin and Lisa you were spot on, as usual. Guild masters can only do so much to "Police" (ha ha) the actions of their members, but when inappropriate behavior like this does come to light and guild kick and GM report are definitely the way to go.
May I add that in most US states (since the writer said he was not a US resident) having sexually charged conversations online with a minor or encouraging a minor to provide sexually explicit photos or text messages is against the law. I know for a fact that several state and federal law enforcement agencies actively police all kinds of online chat rooms, forums and even MMO's. I don't say that because I'm privy to the secret workings of the CIA's Online Creep Squad. It's on the news all the time.
As a guild master, I think this kind of activity should be discouraged not just because it tends to cause drama, but you really don't know who is on the other side of that avatar. I would express my concern and keep an eye on a couple who were sneaking off to their own private vent channel unless I knew for a fact they were both over 18. These things can so easily lead to guild drama and may lead to some serious real life legal problems for one or both of the persons involved.
Nina Katarina Mar 4th 2011 9:33AM
My daughter is not quite a teenager yet but she's beginning to show occasional distressing signs of teenitude. Her computer is right next to mine, so in theory I can read everything she's doing but in practice I often get called away. She's in my guild, and I try to roll a character on any realm she plays in and alert the guildmaster of any guild she joins about how to get in touch with me if she causes trouble. Problem is, my girl is an altaholic, so it's tough to keep up with her.
Then again (mother rationalizing), if she's not obsessing on one character she won't be obsessing on one guy, so I'm slightly safer.
calaf Mar 4th 2011 9:51AM
And here is the double edged sword of the realID system. You dont want your teen's name out there of course.. but on the other hand it would be much easier to keep track of her alts.
Ata Mar 4th 2011 1:11PM
@calif
But with it's current feature to see 'friends of friends', Mom can keep a close eye on if anyone else has her realID, and who those people are, too. Unless that feature got turned off somewhere around the line.
bella Mar 4th 2011 10:29PM
You can make the realID name be fake. Matching an alt or favorite toon names.
mibu.work1 Mar 4th 2011 9:40AM
Oooh this one's a toughie... While I'm not one to advocate involvement in others personal lives, including those I meet online, this is the kind of situation where intervention might actually be the best course of action. Whatever the case, going to a GM was the right decision, and if you DO decide to get more involved, a call to blizzard may not be a bad idea. They do have systems in place to deal with such things, and they'd probably rather nip this in the bud than have the world hear about it from a FOX affiliate.
The main reason why I'm uncertain whether there should be further involvement is that I'm well aware of the effect of diffusion of responsibility. It seems many of your guild members are aware of this, and may assume that somebody will deal with it. If it is a situation that requires involvement, then let that somebody be you, because the worst thing a relationship like this can do is spiral out of control because nobody was playing ref.
Frozenstar Mar 4th 2011 10:07AM
Something seems weird about the OP letter, that they kicked this girl from the guild bc she was vulnerable about criticism, but then they get worried about another player taking advantage of her, but then they mention that a bunch of officers are suspicious that she lied about being depressed, but then they want to contact her parents to make sure she's okay. Either you care about her wellbeing or you don't. Pick one.
It's a bit hypocritical to kick someone from your online social group, then to be worried about someone socially taking advantage of them. You know what would help her not be exploited by that creepy player? If she were in a guild with other adults who can say, hey, we'll help you play the game AND not be all creepy. Maybe she absolutely wouldn't take any criticism, but maybe she would if it was from people she felt were looking after her. Sometimes people need more than a month of online play to build trust. And even if she was someone you couldn't take into raids or heroics, you could still keep her in the guild.
If you were really worried about her, you could offer her a spot back in the guild, so she could have a support system of guildies. The whole "I'm worried for her but I don't want her around us creating drama and being difficult" bit, I'm not buying.
PaulC Mar 4th 2011 10:17AM
WoW.
Excellent points, and on further reflection, I agree. I guess that I may have done the same thing that Powerless did in an attempt to keep the drama down BUT try to feel better about "the poor kid". But your points make me think that it may not be the best way to go.
Robin Torres Mar 4th 2011 11:01AM
I completely disagree.
Is it a kindness to keep the girl in the guild to show her that her behavior has no consequences? No. It's good to show her that she needs to make some efforts to behave well when grouping with others. It's also a definite unkindness to the rest of the guild to allow her to throw her temper tantrums and suck everyone else's fun.
There are also degrees here. Just because they don't want to spend time with her doesn't mean they want her to be taken advantage of. I don't like the bratty chick at the corner store and I won't buy things there because of it, but that doesn't mean I want a guy twice her age to break her heart and take her innocence.
AltMaster Mar 4th 2011 11:42AM
@Robin
The point, I think, is skepticism. Unless Drama Mamas has more evidence than what was stated in the letter we all were privy to, there's nothing there to imply the girl was "throwing tantrums and sucking fun". In fact, the girl hardly interacted with guildies other than the accused pervert. She didn't, based on Powerless's letter, appear to be a real drain on the guild at all. The pervert probably was (with the drunken harassment of another guildie to make a point as evidence), but not the minor.
I tend to think some people like to create more drama than actually is called for. Sure, it's better to be on the safe side, but people have a tendency to be overly moralistic at times. The first respondent to this blog was a person named Ice who claimed he/she had to "keep an eye" on drama-makers, because "somebody had to". I submit that in many cases these self-appointed morality police are actually the creators of some of the drama the rest of us wish to avoid.
Mortenebra Mar 4th 2011 12:32PM
I think the turning point where the OP and his/her fellow officers went from skeptical to straight out concerned was when they were confronted by the alleged creepy dude. I can understand, from an officer's POV, the necessity to remove someone due to their overall behavior or because their behavior was disrupting the guild/raid/game environment. Some players who are unceremoniously kicked-- both young and old-- have the tendency to guilt the GM/officer(s)/guild with, "But I'm depressed!" or "I've had a rough life!" or "I have this condition...!": stuff you can't possibly prove online and just adds drama fuel. A lot of times, the skepticism arises out of, "Well, why is this suddenly relevant when you made no indication of such things beforehand?"
But despite all of that, that's no reason to dismiss the alleged danger to the person as "out of sight, out of mind." My guild has a strict "No Interaction" rule with black-listed ex-guildmates (e.g. those kicked for unsavory reasons). You can talk all the crap you want in /g so long as people tolerate it. But don't go and actively, for example, grief the person or-- in this case-- have disreputable conversations with them, especially when they're a minor. And since the alleged creepy dude is another (ex)guildmember, it crosses into officer/GM jurisdiction once again.
I think the main concern of Powerless is making sure that (s)he has done everything they could to make sure nothing bad happens-- regardless of what they think of the young girl and the reasons they kicked her for. The absolute last thing Powerless and their guild want is to hear that some worst-case-scenario has happened and they're wondering, "Did we do everything we could to prevent it?" or the finger gets pointed at them for not doing enough to help. (I'm quite sure we've seen some extreme cases of parents blaming WoW communities, guilds, servers, et al for some mishap to their child before.) It's not hypocritical; they're more concerned citizens who feel that they're witnessing something bad and want to prevent it, or at least see if there is anything they can do further to prevent it.
I hope this addressed what you were talking about, Frozenstar!
Spellotape Mar 4th 2011 5:47PM
There's a difference between being a less than desirable guild member and being an actual human being in potential real life danger.
SlyFourroux Mar 4th 2011 10:12AM
Welp, here goes. Maybe I am jaded or some sort of anti-hero but I don't understand the need to worry about what goes on with other peoples lives after you kick them from the guild. It was your responsibility to prevent drama in the guild and you did your job, but who cares what they are doing in game. Once you put yourself in the role of internet caretaker then you will feel the urge to get involved in all sorts of stuff you shouldn't. If the girl has a crappy home life then so what. There are social programs out there that deal with that sort of stuff and have proper training. Some goofball internet person isn't going to help the situation and probably make it worse.
TL;DR
Its not your place to deal with some online kids daddy issues. The world always needs more strippers.
PaulC Mar 4th 2011 10:19AM
@Slyfourroux
What a terrible thing to say, and what a terrible thing for me to laugh at.