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3-08-2011 @ 2:07PM
I do want to first add, that subsequent to others correcting me on the forums, mastery has always affected healing rains. While most people think of it as a hot, it is considered a direct heal.Second, SLT is a great idea, especially when used in conjunction with other cooldowns, such as nether ward or BH trinkets which could share the effect of other cooldowns across healh pools. Although, I can see it being a death dealer as well, on something like electrocute - where if one player is low and is going to die from it, and two players have just enough health - you could end up with three dead players instead of one.
3-08-2011 @ 2:26PM
I haven't noticed this, and HR is one of my primary spells, it normally heals for about 2-3k per tick, 4k for crits, and never anything higher unless I pop a SP cooldown. Ive done the math, the ONLY spells Ive noticed that benefit in a noticeable ammount from mastery are GHW, HW and HS, with only the first hit from Riptide affected, and not the HoT. It doesn't affect the heal from ancestral awakening, earth living weapon, Earth Shield, or cleanse. And don't even get me started on chain heal....its dead.
3-08-2011 @ 2:36PM
The last post on this page of the Resto Shaman discussion thread on Ej provides a matrix of spell applicability for mastery and other effects.http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t110263-resto_cataclysm_raiding_discussion/p2/
3-08-2011 @ 3:14PM
I distrust EJ because their typical analysis of classes/spec/abilities is either dependent on specific GEAR setups, group composition, and raid strategy, skewing the results for every person who doesn't have EXACTLY the same circumstances available to them. Hell, their analysis of TC indicated that it was a useless talent because mana should never be a problem... Its likely that they factored that same bias(and yes, they are biased) into their calculations for mastery. If, for example, they factored in that the healers are keeping the ENTIRE raid between 30-50% health, then yes, mastery would have a different priority than say crit or haste, however how many raid groups can do that perfectly w/o losing ppl? The circumstances for the benefit of mastery for resto shaman right now indicate that is junk, except for tank healing, careful raid healing should mean that its bonus effect on the heals is marginal at best, nonexistent at worse...so why waste gems/enchants/reforge on it? I don't, and I am a better healer for it.
3-08-2011 @ 3:18PM
I'm going by my own observations. This includes dumping all mastery, having everyone in a 5 man group jump from the same height to take near leathal damage, cast healing rain, observe numbers. Put mastery back on, repeat experiment and seeing no change in the healing numbers. Not sure if something has changed, but as of a week ago I have no first hand proof that it does have an impact.
3-08-2011 @ 3:44PM
I agree on the observation, because it was also mine until I was berrated on my inaccuracy.
3-08-2011 @ 3:58PM
I can't believe Shamans still don't know what spells are and aren't affected by Mastery :\I'll go test it on my alt for you guys. For the first trial, I'll reforge all mastery into haste. Take off all my gear, put it back on (important to keep a consistent health pool when testing mastery) Cast Healing Rain. Reforge everything possible to mastery. Take off and put gear back on. Cast healing rain again. See if the heals are different. Simple.
3-08-2011 @ 4:10PM
You could try testing it in the same place I did, the lava pool in IF. just have everyone hop down there, let their health get low, and start healing. It takes a while, but it works. Also H HoS, maiden of woe, stand in the void zones. All you really need is someplace with a void zone that does damage of some sort.
3-08-2011 @ 4:37PM
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee45/hoticehunter/WoWScrnShot_030811_161203.jpghttp://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee45/hoticehunter/WoWScrnShot_030811_160901.jpgHigh Mastery setup gave a potential +48% to healing. Low Mastery setup gave 36%. Tests were done at 40.1% health, so true mastery bonus was 28.7% and 21.5%, a difference of 7.2%.Screenshot 1 is low mastery, 2 is high mastery.The average tick for low mastery was (excluding crits) was 2246.4Average tick for high mastery was (no crits) 2404.82404.8/2246.4= 1.0705. The high mastery tests were 7.05% stronger, a less than 3% difference from expected values, assuming mastery affected Healing Rain, which judging by these tests, it does indeed.Your welcome.One of the major problems I have with this community is that no one just... goes out and tests anything anymore. It's all heresay and gut feeling.
3-08-2011 @ 5:08PM
Appreciate the homework. I do trust EJ on binary calls like this, i.e. mastery works for a spell or it doesn't. I don't trust them on judgement calls since a lot of people discount the practical reality of raiding and make far too optimistic assumptions when peforming certain calculations.
3-08-2011 @ 5:16PM
Hih, interesting screen shots, and your math is correct. However it actually Proves that stacking mastery is a bad idea, because a 7% increase in healing output isnt worth stacking mastery unless you stack NOTHING but it to absurd levels, the bonus is just not good enough to warrant it, better to spend time improving your heals elsewhere.
3-08-2011 @ 5:26PM
That's not true. His gear in mastery netted a 12% increase in mastery, which at 3% per point is about 4 mastery (not rating). Additionally, the target health was around 40%, so that mastery wasn't fully effective. It would net a higher value, closer to 12% if the target health were lower.Mastery approximates spellpower with diminishing returns based on a player's health. You receive exceptional performance from this stat in high damage situations, such as hardmode raid encounters - but poor performance in low damage situations, such as farm raid encounters.
3-08-2011 @ 5:37PM
Yet another reason why mastery is a situation stat Firestyle, the lower the health of the target, the more it heals, however if a target is REALLY low on health, do u have the time to cast what is essentially a HoT on them before they die, what if there is more background damage(think festerguts exhale) What then? A HoT wont cut it fully, you are going to need burst heals, something our mastery doesn't support right now except for single target.
3-08-2011 @ 5:44PM
I've actually found most damage to be predictable, outside of tank damage from white hits paired with avoidance. I find mastery most valuable in recovering from nefarion's electocutes, picking up low health targets on halfus HM, it's absolutly critical on Chimaeron HM, and also useful on atramedes HM after 1 tick of searing flames to get people up before modulate, and then healing people up after modulate. It's also useful on maloriak's HMs flame breath to get people up quickly before the next breath.I see this damage coming. I can pre-cast HR, and pre-cast big heals. If people are dying to random damage, it's their fault and likely if we lose a player in 10 man HMs, we're done anyway and things need to be flawless - so it's not my stat choices that need changing.Yes, it situational - yes, the situations arise a lot. I have a standard resto set with mostly crit/haste, and a mastery set. Sometimes I mix and match depending on what trinkets I want and what I'm doing on a fight (raid vs. tank healing).Our mastery is a tool, use it when it's the best choice. Stay away from it when it's not.
3-08-2011 @ 6:06PM
Wouldn't an easier test be to cast Heaing Rain, check the combat logs for the overheal amount, take off all your gear, put it back on, then cast Healing Rain again and see if it healed for more? Y'know, since the mastery effect is modified by how much health you have left? If mastery doesn't affect the spell, it'd be the same in both cases; if the latter was higher you'd know it was affected by mastery.@Torr:Now you're just moving the goalposts, from mastery is useless because it doesn't affect our big AoE heal to mastery being useless because we don't have an instant ginormous AoE heal. The encounters reflect that lack. If a Healing Rain plus a Chain Heal (both of which get boosted by mastery) or two won't cut it, than your group is doing it wrong. Whether that means that the other healers in the raid need to do some group healing, people are standing in fire, or they're all running away from the scary blue poop on the ground.
3-08-2011 @ 8:11PM
Boobah. Our mastery requires health to be missing, not necessarily a low Amount, so taking someone with 150k and someone with 50k, HR will heal them both the same amount if they are at the same Percentage of their maximum health. And at 100%, mastery has zero benefit.And actually, what I meant by saying HR is essentially a hot was that: Even at low health, mastery isn't going to be boosting it enough to make up the difference all my itself, especially when we are talking about such low amounts being healed, mastery REALLY boosts big bomb heals, but HR not so much because the amount per tick is so comparatively small. So, essentially it DOESN'T affect out big AoE heal because the amounts its boosts are not worth the investment or effort, hence making it useless for our best heal. On top of that, Shaman use 4 types of heals, Direct heals(HW, GHW, HS), HoT's(HR, ELW, Riptide), indirect heals(HST, Ancestral Awakening and Cleansing Waters proc) and AoE heals(CH), granted many of our heals have a Direct heal component(CH first hit, Riptide first hit, plus HW, GHW and HS) but those effects don't make up much of our healing unless we are doing triage, our real benefit is that we can place powerful HoT's around and have tons of smart heal procs going off when we crit and cleanse. Its those that really need the benefit from Mastery, along with clearly defining the various thresholds where the healing amount is boosted by x% of your mastery.Face it, currently our mastery is useless to the majority of our toolbox, and for those heals it benefits, its either of HUGE benefit but situational, or so marginal that its not even worth mentioning.
3-09-2011 @ 10:47AM
I stand happily corrected on Healing Rain and mastery. In my previous testing I noted no noticeable change. Went back last night to retest and while the shift still isn't dramatic in my testing, but it is there. Things not affected by mastery currently Riptide HoT portionEarth ShieldEarthliving HoTHealing Stream TotemThat's still a very nice list of spells getting boosted.
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