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3-11-2011 @ 4:34PM
"I am certain that some people will take this entire rant the wrong way. I am not advocating that balance druids need additional DPS talent options for their talent points; I am saying that our talent choices actually need to make a clear and noticeable difference in our characters."I have to agree with you here tyler, and I'm not sure if this was brought on by "that other game," but that other game right now is displaying a massive difference in talent builds with wow, and frankly it is a LOT more fun than wow's talent builder.4 classes who can pick 3 specialties out of 9, and within each of those, most trees having 51 total talent points. And oh by the way, you can have 4 different talent setups.Frankly, wow's talent builder isn't fun. There is very little to play around with, and it doesn't really take much thought. I know the devs made it this way because they didn't want groups to look at someone and be like "wtf noob your talents are the suck," but it made it a lot less fun overall by removing all of what they call the "boring" talents."Balance druids don't need additional DPS talents; they need additional utility talents."I think balance druids along with all classes could use both more dps and utility talents - not passive abilities though, ACTIVE abilities. I feel like this would require a very large re-design of the talent system however, and I doubt blizzard will do that having just recently revamped the system to begin with.
3-11-2011 @ 4:42PM
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html - play around with the talent builder here if you want to get a feel for what I'm talking about in the post above.BTW, I'm not fanboy'ing rift - I'm merely opining that it's talent system is REALLY really really fun, and that I feel it exposes wow's talent system as a significant weakness in it's game design. And I know a lot of people will be like "Well pyro, you know people are going to theorycraft maximum possible dps from every class and spec" and while that is true, the point here is that there are so many awesome choices, you can easily create a talent build that is viable even if it isn't "maximum dps."
3-11-2011 @ 4:46PM
This is probably the 3rd time I've responded to one of your comments that advocate Rift's talent system. Again, I dislike Rift's system because of the many boring talents their trees have. The talents that resemble the ones that were taken away in patch 4.0.1 from WoW. Sure, they have many activated abilities, but they seem mostly the same to me. And if you mean they're more fun because it's impossible to get all the damage-increasing talents in all three of your trees, then I guess it's fun to you. But not really to me.
3-11-2011 @ 4:57PM
Meh. Have you toyed around with RIft's talent trees? Sure, they look different than WoW, but functionally they aren't all that different.
3-11-2011 @ 5:06PM
agree to disagree harvoc. It feels like choice to me, even if that is just an illusion, it's still more fun. Also, a lot of the "boring" talents in the first tier of rift trees are similar to the "increase crit by 3%" that you get in the first tier of wow trees. I flatly just don't agree that the deeper talents are the ones that match the pre-4.01 wow talents, there are many more active abilities or abilities that change how spells interact with things when you cast them.
3-11-2011 @ 5:08PM
Nara, my point is I find it fun to think about how to spec a character in a game. I think it's interesting to sit there and play with talent builds. In wow now it feels like once you click on "balance," as your main specialization, blizzard might as well fill in those 31 points for you because there really isn't any thought or decisions to be made there.
3-11-2011 @ 5:53PM
You've lauded the multiple active abilities in 'that other game's' talent system, which is true...but should also consider that all abilities characters get are through the talent trees (and roots). It is interesting, not least because of being able to set up synergies between different specs, but the talent system also functions as the basic class ability system.And even then, there's repeated abilities (especially baseline skills) among multiple specs.My problem with Rift's system is that it's gonna be almost impossible to balance properly, unless it's set so that all specs/combos are viable, in which case we're back to the illusion of choice rather than meaningful choices.
3-11-2011 @ 7:22PM
Random RIFT question - is there a way to turn off the camera bobbing thing? I think I get motion sickness from it. That was actually the main reason I stopped trying out RIFT, more than anything. If you can't play a game for more than 5 minutes without having to go lay down to settle your stomach, it kind of puts a damper on your ability to play it. I don't think I'll ever leave WoW, but I did want to see a little more of the game.The talent trees were a little too confusing for me, though. Like, why does it sometimes not let you advance up one tree unless you put points in another?
3-12-2011 @ 12:20AM
"My problem with Rift's system is that it's gonna be almost impossible to balance properly, unless it's set so that all specs/combos are viable, in which case we're back to the illusion of choice rather than meaningful choices."wat? If all the combos were viable, there would be a choice, since you could play the combo spec you wanted, rather than- playing a warrior who is a Paragon/Champion/Riftblade/Beastmaster (I'm using an example, Idk if this is even a set in stone option, I know warlord is another option). and that's not even saying you'll get all abilities or talents, so you do have a choice on what you want to take, there isn't a cookie cutter build to my knowledge (I haven't done any digging on that yet).*@Saeadame Idk about the camera bobbing, there should be a way to turn it offAnd as for the talent thing, I think it has to do for lowlevel balance, they want you to explore the 3 different builds combined, rather than going all in one tree, and ignoring the other 2 - 3*- I am extremely tired, so I could be wrong and misread your entire statement, so I apologize sorta
3-12-2011 @ 7:58AM
I have not played Rift, and I probably never will.The only comment that I can make about the game is that their system seems to be a little too complex from a balancing stand point. While not impossible, the wide array of options and limitation on control will make balancing highly difficult. More so than balancing, the system just doesn't seem as one that is easy towards new players. After a specific point within a talent tree, you are no longer gaining DPS talents, but instead are picking up utility talents in order to unlock the higher level abilities. So long as they can find a balancing between the damage of the higher investment abilities and only going X into one tree and then splitting points between two other trees to pick up specific DPS increasing talents; balancing won't be an issue. And you would then have a system wherein a player's investment into the game won't drastically impact their usefulness. Meaning that if they don't spend vast amounts of time reading theorycrafting and guides, they could theoretically just toss all their points into one tree or split their points up and still be remotely viable. That's an excessively tall order though, especially given the vast amounts of choices in the game.
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