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3-14-2011 @ 9:22AM
As said, a lot of the problem is the change from Wrath to Cata. 10mans in Wrath were always accessable from the start, and you could progress at the rate which worked for your guild. Heroics were easy to run through, taking a a small amount of time, and allowed quick gearing up, especially as the later dungeons allows a quick bridging of the gap.Everything now feels very, well artifical, and none of the raids seem to grab in the way in which they did. Naxx had its mythical status from Vanilla, and was new for most people. Sarth was easily tailored to different difficulty and EoE...well it was done by most people once.Uldaur was a wonderful step up, and weaved into the Storm Peaks very well. Firelands doesn't seem to do the same with Hyjal.Cata just feels like seperate different sections which don't mesh well together, being a link of very easy parts to parts which are a pain.
3-14-2011 @ 9:47AM
They used to make zones flow with roads and paths. Now they just separate them with mini-zones, which makes it seems artificial. I just spent one day running on my ground mount in Outlands and realized how well the zones are made to flow.I also think we're missing a lot of the randomness that Vanilla had. Do we need a little stable in SFK that doesn't drop anything? No. Do we need 10 different paths in BRD? No. But it adds a sense of randomness that the current streamlining lacks.I'd thought they'd learned their lesson with ToC. You can't make stuff just really hard and all streamlined. You need breaks and randomness to incite the player into thinking 'what's there?'. We recently did BoT and the best part of the night, for me, was wondering if we needed to kill the trash after the first boss (the ones on the side). Mystery and seemingly random game play is as important as making things clear and concise. Otherwise, you're just getting a 'get the job done' mentality.
3-14-2011 @ 10:44AM
I have to agree.It seems that we lost a lot of what made MMOs great - namely many many ways to achieve the same goal (through trade skills, questing, instances, raids) and WoW is now very much console-ish where you are locked into a single story line with a single path to progression. Uldum was a great example of the lock step, miss a quest and all of a sudden you can't pick any Don't like the path - tough - you have to play that game the way they laid it out now. Quest to 85, Regulars to iLvl 330, Heroics until your eyes blead, then crush your skull on raid content (which you're now totally out of practice with since they basically closed ICC 4 months ago) until you have enough 355 gear to make it trivial. Yes, there are many many things much more fun and interesting. I keep holding out hope for patch 4.1, really I think things will finally get moving again with 4.2 when Valor gear becomes Justice gear. Unfortunately we will be so out of raiding by then it is silly, and with not many post-85 quests, many people get bored and leave. I got tired of asking Bliz to fix it as apparently they have a master plan (probably designed by some great single player console developer) and the players only get to vote to play or not. I'll miss my friends, but what can you do.
3-14-2011 @ 10:56AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. We, as players, are increasingly jaded, and there's not a lot Blizzard can do about it. All the people in my guild that are bored and dabbling in RIFT are the people who've been playing since vanilla and who simply jaded with the game.One can only play any game for so long before it starts to lose the mystery and the sparkle, no matter how much new or enjoyable (I'm actually really liking this tier, maybe its just me) content Blizz throws at us. When it comes down to it, the game just isn't new anymore after 4,5,6,7 years, and people are bound to start looking for a new world to explore.I think Cata from a design perspective did a majority of things right. More endgame would have been nice, and I think they really over-corrected the linear questlines, but those are my only two real complaints. All people did in Wrath was complain that Wrath was a step too far away from Vanilla, now that Blizz brought Cata a step closer, everyone seems to be complaining that Cata isn't enough like Wrath.
3-14-2011 @ 11:32AM
I was so glad to read your post because I have been feeling the exact same way about WoW, but I wasn't sure how many shared the sentiment? I am not a guild leader, but was a raid leader in Wrath and then got promoted higher up to deal with other aspects of the guild. But to the point, I really enjoyed the accessibility of Wrath also. Our guild is a more casual 10 man guild, but we still went in and successfully killed the Lich King, later than most raiding guilds, but we did it and were all proud. 5 mans were a breeze back then and raid difficulty, at least for us, was great. Regular raids (that were tier appropriate) were difficult but possible. On heroic we could down the easier raids or a few bosses in ICC, but not all of them, basically, we weren't complaining. Now the difficulty curve has jumped way up and the storyline seems kind of flat and anti-climatic. I mean, we spent all those years trying to get Arthas and when we did we all watched that epic final cut-scene. Seemed like whatever happened after would be amazing but now being there, in Cata, I feel like the entire expansion is just a clip on. We killed the ultimate villian and now it's like "hey, look, an evil dragon!" It feels artificial and not as interesting. In a lot of ways, I'm starting to feel like WoW ended for me when the Lich King hit the ground for that final time.The difficulty thing is also an issue for a guild like mine. It took us forever to clear some of the heroic five mans in Cata, personally, I haven't even finished them all yet. Together we have only downed 2 raid bosses and all other attempts seem to be immensely difficult, far harder than the first Wrath raids, hell, seems harder than when ICC was new. With the flat story and intense difficulty, I find myself playing less and less, down to 1 or 2 days a week total. I feel no desire to PUG a failing 5 man heroic or grind dailies because well, there is nothing I want or need from those and raiding seems to leave me with a headache. Seems every day I have less will to log in next time. Never thought I'd feel this way about WoW, but here it is, inadvertently happening despite my initial excitement for the Cata release.
3-14-2011 @ 11:58AM
"We killed the ultimate villian and now it's like "hey, look, an evil dragon!" It feels artificial and not as interesting. In a lot of ways, I'm starting to feel like WoW ended for me when the Lich King hit the ground for that final time."I think a lot of people feel the same way.@N-train - also completely agree that people are jaded. I know I got jaded for sure. Combine that with the culmination of one of the most epic story lines in fantasy fiction ever, it's hard for some to keep the motivation to continue playing wow.@Original Letter Writer:Rift is a great game, no doubt. It's talent system absolutely blows wow out of the water right now, although some would disagree. It has a great story behind it too, for both factions. It isn't perfect though, and where blizzard has proved themselves by making their MMO more accessible, many other MMO companies have failed. Early returns are favorable for Rift in terms of the staying power, but Trion will have to at least match wow's content updates to continue to keep this buzz going. I think it would be a good thing to keep one anchor in WOW in case Rift ends up taking a turn for the worse, or just becomes old hat sooner than you think.
3-14-2011 @ 12:51PM
I agree with most of what's been said.Cataclysm is doing it wrong on in so many fields it's not even worth adapting for me.Also as was said, the LichKing > Deathwing transition feels... bland.I never thought Arthas was the top dog or anything, he was just one among many powerful entities but Deathwing just doesn't measure up in-game right now. Sure he has the lore background, but that means nothing once you're in-game.I find myself wishing they simply had gone with the Burning Legion again, as they were a more obvious step-up in power and already showed us what they were capable of in TBC.I also agree with the zone transition, sure they're all pretty and awesome, but they don't mesh well togather.All in all, I'm just tired of WoW and Cataclysm did nothing to make me WANT to stick around for more of the same, it's actually doing the very opposite with all the needless difficulty step-up. It's just lost it's fun factor and it doesn't look like the devs give a damn about it, let alone aknowledge the mistake.So yeah, my guild is losing me (and a few others I know about) to LOTRO for now and possibly Rift soon.
3-14-2011 @ 1:10PM
I'm a big lore nerd and that's what has totally killed it for me right now. I got into WoW during Wrath, but didn't really start loving it until I hit Northrend with my first character. Everything just seemed more epic throughout that expansion. At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I can't stand the new dungeons too. Not only do I not care about their story (even a little bit), but they take wayyyyy too long. I shouldn't have to plan my entire week around running randoms to gear up. I don't even care if they nerf the amount of points we get per run. I just want to run more in a night. So if you get one you hate or a bad group or whatever... it doesn't take all night to get through it and you can move on to the next one.However, I could deal with all of that if the story wasn't lame. On the bright side, I see some very interesting rumors about upcoming content that could totally change my mind. If we see more from old gods and possibly titans, I'll be balls deep in that content.
3-14-2011 @ 2:31PM
It would seem I am of the opposite opinion in regards to some of the posters above me. Heroics, at the start, are maybe a bit tough, but upon getting better gear (JP, Crafted, Heroic drop luck) it gets easier. Honestly, I have 1 piece from a raid (Halfus) that the guild I was recently in has managed to kill all of 2 times, in 2 months. They would call themselves casual. However, casual doesn't mean flopping on a boss just because there is a new set of drakes up. That's just poor adaptation. I've pugged into another guild's run (they also raid 2 days a week like my former) and we went in and did all but Nef in BWD. Myself and the pugged in mage had never downed anything in there. It went fine. Poor adaptation, from what I've seen, is the leading cause of people finding things "hard". 3 months after launch (more if you count when 4.01 dropped) and there are still healers who can't adapt to the Cata healing style. No you can't spam Regrowth or Flash Heal anymore. Utilize those longer, bigger heals. Tanks who put too much emphasis on their health pool, but not enough on their avoidance stats. Blood DK tanks who can't spec (seriously, very few seem to get it right..its like they are still spec'd for WotLK). It takes five minutes to read up on the stuff, and X amount of heroics to apply what you read, and become comfortable with it. Same goes for the raids (normal mode). Yes, some of the mechanics take getting used to, and some people learn things at different speeds, however fights like Atramedes or Chimareon (yes its fun, stressful, but fun to heal imo) aren't really that hard. Maloriak is nothing more than collapsing in and out, and pew pew adds. Wrath made people too soft, and was a poor introduction to raiding, imho. I personally came to the game 4 months into TBC. TBC raids were more difficult than Wrath raids, by and large. Having said that, the greatest contribution WotLK made was that it gave smaller guilds a way to see ALL the content via 10m raids. I agree too, the storyline (love my lore) for WotLK was beautiful. Cata has just begun, lets give it a chance to develop its story. In alot of ways, though an old villian of sorts, its a brand new story. Unlike Arthas and his betrayal, and the Lich King, which had been around since WC3. I'm glad they made the intro Cata raids harder, and yet honestly once you get the mechanics down, they become alot easier (for the most part). Heroics shouldn't be 15-30 minute lolezmode fests. Heroics should be a "training ground" of sorts for raiding. While my main (holy/disc priest) took some time, and originally had difficulty healing heroics, its not that bad now. My second 85 (hunter) got really lucky and was raid ready, because of heroics, within a week or 2 of hitting 85 (unlike my priest I didn't have the JP maxed and readily spendable fresh at 85). I generally ran with only 1 guildie. Very few guild runs, and i was gearing myself with relative ease. My dk has taken a little more time to gear but I play it alot less as well, so it doesn't see heroics often. TL;DR Heroics aren't that hard, and really don't take that long with a competent group. Raids right now have a steeper learning curve than Wrath, but frankly Wrath (10m at least) was too easy at the beginning. If your guild is struggling to down Raid bosses, look at your strategy, and I hate to say this, but your roster as well. People may just not be "getting" Cata specs, rotations, or really just aren't up for a more difficult (by WotLK standards) raid. Bring in people who do "get" it, or pug out. Yes its fun to run with guildies, but if everyone isn't on the same page, especially in 10s, you aren't gonna get far.
3-14-2011 @ 2:53PM
I agree with much of the sentiment in these comments. The accessibility of Wrath was its strength in my opinion, not its weakness as some have claimed. I feel that Blizzard may have taken the criticisms and feedback of the hardcore minority a bit too far in that direction.This isn't a learn to play issue. I've been playing since release back in '04, and am quite familiar with how to play the game well. I spent a good couple of years during my time in Azeroth with a hardcore mentality, and that sort of play style leads to a high degree of burnout. As the game became more and more accessible, I was thrilled to find I could still play casually while still feeling like I had a good shot at seeing the content.Cataclysm just feels like a step in the wrong direction. I always thought heroic mode raids were there to cater to the hardcore minority. Normal modes should be accessible. For the most part, Wrath hit the nail on the head in that regard. As it stands right now, the time investment required for normal mode progression is putting off a lot of my closest friends in game. We're already looking for other games to play as a group, and that's something we've never considered in all our years playing wow together.
3-14-2011 @ 3:09PM
" 'We killed the ultimate villian and now it's like "hey, look, an evil dragon!" It feels artificial and not as interesting. In a lot of ways, I'm starting to feel like WoW ended for me when the Lich King hit the ground for that final time.'I think a lot of people feel the same way."Probably true, but very interesting. While defeating the Lich King was cool for me, it wasn't the ultimate game element I was looking for. I started with Warcraft long before Arthas even existed. He's a very interesting element, but that's not what the game is about to me. Orcs, humans, dragons, demons, these have been around longer than Arthas. To me, the game started before Arthas and it will continue after him.I understand that it's different for many people. To people who got started with Warcraft 3 or Wrath of the Lich King, the game is about Arthas. His end means the end of the game for these people. Even just starting with Vanilla WoW put a lot of focus on Arthas with the Plaguelands, Scholo, Strath and Naxx. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this, but it is sad. There's nothing Blizzard can do about it either. If the game was about Arthas for you and he's gone, the game is probably over.I've found the new zones to have great stories and the raids are fun. I do agree that they could use "fluff" areas. Areas that don't have to do anything, areas that most people skip, but that give the zone an extra feel. The Bar in BRD. The Stable in SFK. Even just skippable trash packs like BoT has. It gives the instance a bigger feel and the feeling of choice, even if you never take that option.
3-14-2011 @ 5:20PM
@genericcommie The problem is really not with healers or tanks not adjusting to the cata model. Like you said relearning your class doesn't take that long, when was the last time you saw a priest chain casting flash heal? When they go oom after 3 flash heals is it really that hard to understand that it's not the best course of action and swtich to more efficient spells? Generally tanks and healers are used to having more responsibility so they are very proactive in mastering their class. I'm not saying all of the tanks and healers are good, but honestly I've seen more problems with dps. And even more problems with people just being jerks in PuGs. Yeah they are good they can pop 15k dps but they are jerks.That brings me to my next point. Cata heroics are not hard indeed. After having some gear they are not difficult. But they are still long and annoying (and everything becomes annoying once you have to do it daily). In Wrath they were annoying but easy and short now they are long and annoying. In Wrath they were easy so that you could chain them up with a friend while messing around and having fun; now they are long and often times you have to endure them with horrible pugs who are hellbent on making your life miserable. I don't even have a choice of not doing it with pugs since most of my friends quit WoW due to boredom and frustration with Cata. I want Wrath back when I could mess around and have fun with my friends. I don't want to expirience long and annoying Cata content with elitists.
3-14-2011 @ 7:56PM
-TL;DR version at bottom of post-@PoltergeistAccessibility and difficulty are two separate things, do not confuse them. Accessibility only indicates how easy it is to get into content, difficulty indicates how hard that content is once you have that access. In Cataclysm raid content is still not very difficult to get into. You run some heroics, spend some justice points, maybe buy a BoE or two and you're starting raid ready. And it is only gear that is a barrier to entry. All other obstacles from the past are gone. Thus I would say that what you are complaining about it the difficulty of the current content. I personally find the current difficulty satisfactory, but I want to delve into this a bit more. I think you're right in this regard, and this is why. WoW raiding has only two difficulty settings, normal and heroic. It's very binary. Almost every other video game has 3 difficulty settings if not more. We have heroic content for hardcore raiders it's true, but what about those who are above average? Those below average (not everyone can be above average)? The game as it currently is lumps everyone that isn't a hardcore raider into the same difficulty, and that does not work for everyone. Some people want content that's a little easier, and that's fine; Blizzard should cater to that. Blizzard should also cater to those who want a challenge but can't or don't want to do heroic content. Why do we only have two difficulty modes with a huge difficulty gap between them? Why can't Blizzard make several more difficulty levels to cater to more types of raiders? Truthfully, so far this raid content in Cataclysm has been better in my opinion then Wrath. I like having several places to play around in instead of one huge place, and I like the greater difficulty curve. But I understand that I play on a level not everyone does or can. While my raid team is not hardcore, we still want to perform well and beat all the content, even get into heroics if we can. Not everyone plays on that level. I'm not saying people are bad players and should L2P, but that people are different and the raiding game should reflect that.-TL;DR version-Accessibility is ability to get into content, only block is gear which isn't hard to get to be able to start raiding. Difficulty is main complaint. I like current difficulty, but argue that two difficulty settings not enough. Need more then normal and hard difficulties so more raiders can play and their skill and comfort level.
3-15-2011 @ 2:27AM
Wow first poster, you captured exactly how I've felt about this expansion perfectly. I'm very worried about what is going to happen to the game. Wow just is no longer "epic."
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