Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsThe Queue: There's a surprise at the end
by Alex Ziebart 
Mar 21st 2011 at 11:00AM
Today's edition of The Queue discusses the nature of the death knight, the recent lack of creepy whispers, the nature of the vrykul, and ... something special. Enjoy!
Oscar asked:
Is it me or does it feel as if the whole "caster" part of DKs was just wholly abandoned and just being confined to Death Coil and a few other abilities?
I don't think it was abandoned -- because it was never supposed to be there. Not ever. Every time death knights have found a way to make themselves into primarily spellcasters, especially with a substantial amount of ranged damage, Blizzard has specifically gone out of its way to stop it from happening. Death knights are not primarily spellcasters now, and they were never supposed to be spellcasters. They do deal a lot of spell damage, sure, but so does every melee class/spec besides warriors.
If you want more evidence that death knights aren't intended to be casters, here's a statement from Ghostcrawler on the topic from the beginning of 2010.
Pilsner asked:
Why have the archaeology keystones stopped talking to me when I loot them? I need their counsel on which of my invisible enemies to be most wary of!
That wasn't a baseline feature. It was something that Deadly Boss Mods did if you had it installed. It had a "Make Archaeology More Interesting" option that was turned on by default. The mod authors probably noticed the sheer amount of people that were utterly baffled by the keystone noises and disabled the option by default. Your friends will not be abandoning you anymore. (At least, not because of archaeology.)
Noyou asked:
When you kill certain vrykul, why do they turn into powder?
The kvaldir in particular do this, but they don't turn into powder. They turn into water. The kvaldir are vengeful spirits of the sea. If you look at their model, you'll notice bits of the sea are worked into their bodies -- they have starfish and barnacles stuck to them, they're covered in seaweed (and in fact, it looks like their hair is seaweed), and their clothing is made up of bits of loose netting from fishing nets. When you kill them, you more or less beat the sentience out of them, and they lose their ability to hold a solid form. Their body melts into a pool of water again, and the bits of the sea that were stuck to them just fall in a pile on the ground.
The legitimately living vrykul don't fall to dust/water. They leave corpses behind like anything else.
Atraja asked:
You guys keep saying that you might bring Patches of Yesteryear back but I haven't seen it yet. Is it coming back or isn't it?
Yes. Tomorrow. Except it's called WoW Archaeologist now.
Have questions about the World of Warcraft? The WoW Insider crew is here with The Queue, our daily Q&A column. Leave your questions in the comments, and we'll do our best to answer 'em!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, The Queue, Archaeology
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 9)
(cutaia) Mar 21st 2011 12:03PM
"do you think Blizzard will simply just bring a new class rather then a "Hero" class since it (understandable) makes a huge balance issue..."
They've stated many times that "hero class" was not intended to imply that the class is in any way better than the other classes. Your connection of "hero class" to "OP" is simply combining two separate issues -- one of terminology and one of normal balance issues that crop up when introducing a class. Hero class was just a meaningless buzzword, but the WoW community, as always, extrapolated it into, "OMG DKs are so OP...look, there's proof! They even called them a 'hero' class!"
If they drop the "hero" part from any future classes, it will be to avoid this confusion and finger pointing...but it will have no affect on the actual development of the class.
Suzaku Mar 21st 2011 1:25PM
Their specific design philopshy for hero classes is "Epic but Equal".
Meaning they have their own unique starting experience, appearance, and gameplay style, but they are balanced to be on the same footing as the other classes.
Shrikesnest Mar 21st 2011 2:02PM
@N-train:
You hit the nail on the head. If you read the forums or even WoW Insider articles for each individual class, almost all of them talk about how unfair it is that theirs is the only healer/tank/ranged DPS/whatever that has to worry about X (hunters being unable to do full DPS at close range, Arcane mages being sub-par on the move, etc). No matter how strong the class, the bone of contention is that "other (role) don't have to worry about this but they're just as good as or better than we are!" News flash: every spec has to deal with that. They're all missing pieces of the puzzle.
One of the things that made Starcraft one of the best video games ever is the massive asymmetry between the three playable factions. Before Starcraft, almost all strategy games were contests between nearly identical sides with maybe a few unique units or spells between them, because that type of game is much easier to balance. With Starcraft, though, each side was extremely unique and played in a very different way, with their own restrictions and advantages that ultimately more or less balanced out.
This is what infuriates me when people say that Blizzard is bad at balancing games. They're phenomenal at balancing games from a big-picture point of view. It's only in microcosm, comparing tiny individual spells or talents from one class against one other class that the game looks terrible. And ultimately the assymmetry is what creates an interesting, engaging game where each class plays in a radically different way from the others.
Drecin Mar 21st 2011 3:05PM
I believe my question came off wrong...I'm not saying that a hero class should be better than any other class, I do agree that classes should be balanced. I was just curious as to what is it that elevated a hero class to that title...if it's lore related, class mechanic, or the cool starting zone...basically what makes a hero class more heroic than another class?
Fa110u7 Mar 21st 2011 3:55PM
I feel the need to point out that questing through the DK starter Zone reveals that your character was a "hero" in life before Arthas ninja'd your corpse.
jbodar Mar 22nd 2011 5:34AM
To add to other people's answers -- Blizzard wanted the starting zone of the DK to be chock full of dragon-riding, townsfolk-slaughtering, bad-assery which kind of required starting you off above level 1. Compare that to the "kill 10 wolves", "collect some plants", and "go talk to this guy" quests which were the regular characters beginning quests. It would really suck to have to go back to that after you freed yourself from Arthas. It just would've been too jarring, both from a design and lore perspective. So basically, the Hero class means you start at lvl 55 and pick up nice blue gear in your starting zone.
chaosdefined Mar 21st 2011 11:12AM
No offence to any decent Tanks here, but I've noticed how arrogant Tanks are becoming now, even more so than in the LK days. A good majority of them don't care about anyone in their group or helping them out, all they care about is the quickest run through a dungeon for their Valor Points and that's it. If you complain about this, and note that you really need Justice Points or specific gear from some of the bosses the Tank wants to skip, you're politely informed to get a Guild run instead.
I know Blizz are trying to solve the problem by changing the system around, so that you get VP for the first 7 random HC's you do. But that will create a bigger problem, as once the Tanks have got their VP's for the week, they won't queue up for a random HC again until the following week!
Do you think Blizz would ever implement a system where, in order to actually obtain your Valor Points for the pug run, you have to actually down every boss in a dungeon?
MattKrotzer Mar 21st 2011 11:23AM
That won't solve your problem. It just means there will be some dungeons you'll NEVER get a tank for. Throne of the Tides in particular. That branch with the gillgoblins? Brutal tank-killer. I'm not suprised that tanks aren't trusting their PuGs to keep them alive through it.
Yes, tank arrogance can be high, especially in Heroics, which are the top-tier of content for the bottom-tier of tanks. As you mentioned, tanks are incredibly in-demand, and usually expected to lead the groups, whether that be explaining fights, marking targets, etc. It's not surprising then that in a situation where people can get away with being unrepentant douchebags, and you can't/won't do anything about it, that they'll do just that.
Sadly, getting a guild group IS your best option, aside from Blizzard implementing a "must kill all bosses to complete dungeon" limitation. Of course, that would screw the people who DO just want to get in and out for a fast VP run, and have no interest in extraneous bosses.
cbachelot Mar 21st 2011 11:26AM
Perhaps I can enlighten you on the poor attitude of tanks recently. You see I am a tank. I have always been a tank. I have a healing offspec, but I love tanking more so. Do you want to know why in the groups I join I have a "my way or the highway" attitude? Because we are tired of putting up with arrogant dps. You see, the entire time I was leveling and tanking through dungeons, it became quite annoying for mages to pull new mobs because "I didn't want to waste my proc!" Or hunters to pull because "my pet can handle it!". Or to generally have dps with a macro for "gogogo". I have even been in group where I start the run by saying "Let me know when you are ready to start." In case the healer needed mana after a spec change or something. This is usually met with silence followed by a dps saying "wtf start already tank GAH!" or just pulling themselves. I guess the morale of the story is this. We tanks a bitter husks of human beings, because you made us this way. Enjoy your product.
(cutaia) Mar 21st 2011 11:35AM
"I know Blizz are trying to solve the problem by changing the system around, so that you get VP for the first 7 random HC's you do. But that will create a bigger problem, as once the Tanks have got their VP's for the week, they won't queue up for a random HC again until the following week!"
If you assume that all tanks can play all night on Tuesday and all DPS only play on Saturday, then yes. I doubt it will be a problem, though, because just as some DPS can only play on the weekends, some tanks feel the same way.
In fact...tanks who can only play on the weekends as it is, will now have incentive to queue more than once when they finally do play.
Also, someone who would maybe like to tank, but has been DPSing because they can only play on the weekends and don't feel they'd get enough practice to be a good tank...just might have a reason to give it a shot now.
Also, raiding tanks may want to see how the week's raids go before they decide to run any heroics for valor points, which again, will keep some folks doing their randoms at the end of the week.
So, yeah, some tanks will finish their runs early, but others will be encouraged to do them later. Overall, I don't foresee there being too much change in queue times in either direction.
Grovinofdarkhour Mar 21st 2011 11:41AM
1.
Tanks blaming dps and dps blaming tanks are both manifestations of the same problem: people failing to work together as a team. It's human nature to think we're always doing everything perfectly (however we perceive it) and it's the other guys screwing everything up. It's also incorrect. Any post that is just more finger-pointing from either of those perspectives is an unconstructive waste of everybody's time.
2.
If we have to do every single boss to get credit for a heroic, nobody will want to do Halls of Origination ever again (especially while Lil' Marrow is a full country mile due east of everything else going on in there).
Pyromelter Mar 21st 2011 11:48AM
Most tanks that I know that are real raid-tank tanks don't have that attitude. I never have that attitude when I tank. The "real" tanks I know of have this mentality:
"It is my job to keep myself alive, and to do anything and everything I can to protect my teammates from dangerous enemies who would kill them. I will use every ability I have to maintain my own life while threatening my enemies as much as I humanly (or orcishly) can. No matter how bad my teammate is, they are my comrade, and I have a duty to protect them, at all costs."
Here are the tanks that aren't the real tanks, the ones that whine and are very petulant:
"I am the master. These peons are here simply to support me. If someone does something I don't like, I'm going to let a mob kill them to teach them a lesson. If someone is a bad player, screw them, they aren't helping me. This dungeon is for my loot and my points, and if some idiot slows me down or is a complete idiot, they don't deserve my awesome leet skills."
The difference is basically that a real tank, a good tank, is a good tank all the time to everyone he comes across. He's selfless, he's humble, he understands that he is the grunt in the trenches that is mixing it up so the pretty boys in the back with the fancy spells can do what they do best - even when they aren't that good at it. The diva tank is all about "me- me me me me me me me." If a really good tank finds that a player is very underperforming, to the point where they may not succeed in the instance, at that point he might suggest removing that player. But he would never do anything like not taunt a mob off that player. Or start saying racist things (like what Rossi was referring to in a podcast recently).
Parknet Mar 21st 2011 12:08PM
Just gotta reply here. My main is a healer and I have had well over my fair share of jerky tanks. But focus on the good ones. Use the "vote kick" for the jerks. It doesn't take very long to get a new one because you will be at the top of the q. Since the kicked person won't be told why they are being kicked, I usually give warning. I say.. be nice or i'm voting to kick you. No need for rudeness. if it continues, I vote. I've only lost a couple of votes.
My alt is a bear tank. I start every run with a hello and quick talk on cc and adjust during the run if things are going bad or well. I am not the best tank but have never been called a jerk or a fail. I think being nice goes a long long way to making the game enjoyable even during wipe-fests.
Chokaa Mar 21st 2011 12:32PM
A couple points: I am a raid tank, and I act just as the the raid tank in Pyro's example. I keep myself alive and mobs beatin on me. When in a heroic with easily skippable bosses (tott and hoo) I ALWAYS ask the group. I have always gotten back 'well its up to you tank, or the healer' I have very VERY rarely gotten these ridiculously cocky dps. I mean, I did in wrath, but I was unkillable in wrath heroics for damn near 8 months, so I paid no attention. I've gotten incredibly BAD dps occasionally (brc. Always brc. Always Corla. Is it really necessary to wipe 1200 times cause THIS ONE GUY can't dance beams correctly? I've had to do the beam more than once. And that junk is annoyin to tank while interrupting fears while dancing the beam. I hate how she's the only boss to drop a wand!)
I count myself lucky to be a decent enough tank, I don't ever have to worry about the arrogant SoB's I keep hearing about!
I DPS when a guildie wants to tank. So I get to make sure they don't suck, which is a fun spot to be in!
On another note about the 7 roics - YES PLEASE. That gives me more nights with the wife; On raid nights I can throw down 2 or 3 roics and cap my valor super easy.
Tanks are people too!!
Quorniya Mar 21st 2011 1:18PM
This weekend I tanked a heroic SFK pug on my DK. As soon as I zoned in, a mage in the group started saying "why haven't you pulled yet? we're skipping the 2nd and 3rd bosses right? omg you're too slow!" and then raced ahead of me to start pulling group. I told the mage that if he pulled it, he could tank it, and the healer said he was going to stop healing him. The mage freaked out, aggroed 3 packs of mobs onto us, and wiped the whole group. He then refused to accept a rez and forced us to vote kick him so he wouldn't have the deserter debuff.
I get assholes like this in PUGS *all the time*, and plenty of DPS who want to back seat tank and tell me why I'm doing everything wrong even though we're killing bosses and not wiping. THIS is why tanks often act arrogant and try to lay down the law for groups. We are sick to death of zoning in to find DPS who are entitled jerks and want to make us miserable for the entire run.
guest42 Mar 21st 2011 6:46PM
The beauty of being a healer is the tank has no greater power over us than we do him. I've let jerk tanks die while I drink up. I've left group just after a pull on the most deserving of jerk tanks. I've LG'd tanks to cliff edges to let them know they can't bully me. And I've healed dps tanks when the tank thinks he can hold the group up standing still.
I'm usually quite nice, but im not afraid to knock a tank off his high horse if he needs it.
chaosdefined Mar 21st 2011 2:52PM
On a very rare occasion I have had a tank who's said "Does anyone need any specific bosses or can we skip some?" and when someone's piped up saying they need a boss, the tank and group have said ok. Those were amazing people and to them I salute you!
I'm trying to gear up my Paladin for tanking, which is going slowly because we keep skipping bosses that drop some gear I want, and means I come up short on JP.
I understand the bad DPS, I've experienced them myself. I usually give a groan whenever I see the "GOGOGOGO!" appear.
Just seems to be there's less and less players around who are willing to help out each other.
fallemwarrior Mar 21st 2011 11:13AM
I have over 100 pristine hides and every lw patern... but i keep farming skin...
Am i addicted? Is there a cure?
How long do i have to live?
Debesun Mar 21st 2011 11:23AM
It all starts and ends with one simple step.
1. Trash your skinning knife.
General human laziness will prevent you from buying another one. Even when you visit your local Trade Goods vendor you'll just forget to buy another.
Ryxxan Mar 21st 2011 11:24AM
Yes, you are addicted. But there is good news: The cure is salt. Lots of it.