Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsDrama Mamas: Vent troubles vs. That Guy
by Robin Torres 
Mar 25th 2011 at 2:00PM
The above video is not on topic. Anyway, let's talk about That Guy. He's always causing drama. Or is he?
Dear Robin and Lisa,
I recently found myself in an interesting situation: Running our guild second 10 man raid team. Or more accurately, finishing it off with two tanks, a healer and a DPS. Getting the DPS and the healer was fairly easy without going outside the guild or recruiting anyone. And I even convinced one of our officers to be the MT. This afternoon, at the spur of the moment, he (the MT guild officer) formed a Bastion of Twilight raid with most of the second team members in it, including me (shammy healer), along with a tank friend of his. So, we get there, join vent, mine is working fine (this is important) and we start the first pulls, things are going just fine and we get to the first boss. Halfus has 3 drakes available (twilight, slate and time) so after a short discussion in vent, a strategy is decided on and we attack the boss. Three wipes later, they down the boss, my first ever kill on Halfus. I even get this amulet drop which is a huge upgrade for me, so I am happy.
As we progress through the trash to the second boss(s) I notice vent is unusually silent, so I ask if anyone is saying anything in vent, I get a yes, along with a bunch of people saying "can you hear us say that ****" in raid chat, I say no, my vent must not be working right. The Raid leader(Guild officer MT) doesn't say anything, and proceeds to the next few pulls and we get to the second boss(s). I ask for a explanation of the boss in raid chat, I get a few disjointed "go left"' "they are usually on the north wall, go there" and "just follow the group" responses, nothing definite, so I figure its an easy boss, and we go with the pull. 10 second into the fight, I get yelled at in vent(in one of maybe a dozen or so shouted messages that got across) to "stand at the dragons TAIL ****" so I move there, boss then promptly turns and blasts me with fire, I die. A wipe ensues. I say again, "Vent isnt working guys I cant hear a thing" This time I dont get a single response in raid chat. Pretty much the same thing happens for the next 6 wipes, we go in, some mechanic/strategy was discussed in vent, I miss it, and it ends up in a wipe. After every wipe, I post almost exactly the same message "Vent isnt working guys, cant hear a thing, cant you give boss strat in raid chat?" And no one replies, finally after the 7th wipe, RL calls it and all but he and I leave, he asks me to stay.
He then starts telling me to "get better equipment" and "you are holding us back," in a cryptic sort of way that could mean several things: 1) improve my gear, 2) get a better computer, 3) get better internet, etc. And I get thoroughly confused, and begin thinking "WTF kind of guild DOES he think this is.....certainly NOT a guild trying to be #1 in the realm" Hell, we celebrated when we were in the top 50..... So I say something to the effect "its not my fault you Missed my messages for an explanation" He gave some lame excuse about his chat window moving too fast...almost as if he was monitoring more than 1 conversation at a time...IN a raid no less. So I decided to give him some sound, former raid leader(back when uld and ToC were new) advice: When leading a raid, block out EVERYTHING else in game except for the raid, and devote all your attention to managing the raid WHILE playing the game. And since he was not doing that, he failed to notice my repeated messages in raid chat that vent wasn't working and for raid explanations, and that him giving ME the third degree was uncalled for. He then said "I don't think I will be raiding with you again" and then proceeds to list my excuses, out of context, in guild chat. I try to explain things, he attacks me, I try to take things to whispers, he posts EXACTLY what I said in whisper in guild chat, and proceeds to taunt me about it. I try and pull a "w/e" statement and log out. Unfortunately, during the 20 secs for a logout, he posts something to the effect of "immature coward....idk how you all can put up with him...(missed the rest because of logout)."
When I joined this guild, it was for a place to level and alt while I raided on my main, it soon became the guild I went to for advice and help with things ranging from: family troubles, financial issues, relationship issues, and all around camaraderie. After the raiding guild my main was in fell apart because of drama(not unlike the above actually, only one person intentionally pitted players against each other) and the GM changing realms to get away from it, I joined my current guild with my nearly lvl 70 alt in it, and I have been there for nearly 18 months now. Shortly after my main joined, I got the guild raiding and progressing, and took them from a guild with under 5 OS 10 man kills and almost nothing else, to a guild with naxx 10 fully cleared, Ulduar progressed to Hodir and ToGC fully cleared in under 2 months, and when ICC came out, we jumped right in and got our first Deathbringer kill in mid January. However, in early March of 2010, I was forced to take a involuntary break from WoW, and was unable to get back in until October. In that time, my guild had progressed to downing every boss in Wrath, including LK, except for Yogg. And when I got back I was severely behind in gear, so I decided to wait until cata came out to rejoin the raiding scene with them. School however had other plans for me, and leveling to 85 took me some time, and gearing up took longer, and now that I am starting to rejoin the raiding scene with the guild, THIS happens...and I am a little afraid that the guild might not take this incident well, the officer is fairly prominent in the guild, and I haven't been as active in a LONG time...how do I handle this situation without making things worse? And how can I now run a raid team that has seen how things might go after a night of wiping? I really don't want to make things worse, but this officer has rubbed me the wrong way since he joined back in 09(November I think, just a few weeks after I did), and he doesn't pull punches when it comes to ... well, ANYTHING, regardless of the consequences.
Please help me,
Vent Troubles
Drama Mama Robin: Hey, Vent. Looks like you've got That Guy in your guild. And just like That Guy in your office and That Guy who married your family member or friend, you can't fix him and you can't make him treat you better. You don't have to put up with this behavior, however. And, more importantly, you can minimize the chances of becoming the brunt of another That Guy attack.First, let's deal with That Guy's behavior: His reaction was immature and drama-causing. You need to discreetly discuss it with your guild leader. (You might also want to drop the fact that he's running a raid without properly monitoring raid chat.) If the GL is okay with That Guy, then I highly recommend finding a guild that doesn't allow that kind of verbal abuse. Otherwise, trust the GL to deal with it appropriately and otherwise keep your contact with That Guy to a minimum.
Now, let's talk about you. I understand that this particular run was spur of the moment and you weren't leading the raid. But it might have helped if you had refreshed your knowledge of the bosses a bit during prep/travel time. We have a lot of general discussions as well as specific class strategies here on WoW Insider.
Or maybe you did read up. If so, great! I guess that still wouldn't have helped you hear whatever the specific strategies were for the fight. So, let's get technical.
It is your responsibility to make sure any technical problems you are having aren't affecting the rest of your group. Once you realized Vent wasn't working for you, the thing to do was announce your problem (which you did) and then announce that you were going to try some troubleshooting. They could then have chosen to wait for you or not. A few minutes trying to restart Vent and/or your computer would probably have solved your problems and allowed you to participate properly. And if you weren't able to solve it, then you should have asked if they wanted to make the exception of typing the instructions in Vent or have you drop out.
Of course, That Guy's not properly monitoring raid chat would have hindered all of this communication, but one of the people on Vent could have explained your situation verbally. I doubt you were the only reason for all those wipes, mind you. But fixing your technical issues or having the rest of the raid buy in to working around them would have kept you from being That Guy's scapegoat.
Regardless, you didn't deserve the treatment you got. "I don't think I'll be raiding with you again," he said. Turn that threat from him into a promise for yourself.
Drama Mama Lisa: Vent Troubles, I'm sympathetic to your situation. We've all been the one who's struggling to fix a technical problem and keep up with a fast-paced raid at the same time -- but I have to come out and say the obvious: Get a clue.After 7 statements about not being in Vent, isn't it obvious that nobody particularly wants to handhold you by typing strats into raid chat? After 7 wipes, isn't it obvious that your inability to hear the strategies is a major problem?A wipe ensues. I say again, "Vent isnt working guys I cant hear a thing" This time I dont get a single response in raid chat. Pretty much the same thing happens for the next 6 wipes, we go in, some mechanic/strategy was discussed in vent, I miss it, and it ends up in a wipe. After every wipe, I post almost exactly the same message "Vent isnt working guys, cant hear a thing, cant you give boss strat in raid chat?" And no one replies, finally after the 7th wipe, RL calls it ...
Frankly, I don't blame the officer for blowing his stack and going off on you. It was a childish tantrum, true, and I don't condone his particular flavor of reaction ... But wow, you really set up this situation to fail. I don't think the guild officer is That Guy at all -- I think That Guy is you.
As you've noted, this unfortunate event occurred just as you came back and were trying to make a good impression with the guild. You're the newcomer here, and you barged in and made a mess of things by being so unprepared and not taking care of your business. If you want to continue trying to get this raid group off the ground, you're either going to have to man up and apologize to the officer/tank for your lack of attention to your problems and ask him if he'd be willing to give it a second chance, or you're going to have to find another MT. Either way, as Robin explained, you're also going to have to study up on the encounters, doublecheck your Vent stability, and ensure that you're 100% prepared for your next event.
Take care of your business, act like the returning newcomer you are, and remember that you're the one who needs to bend here as you seek to fit into the guild again. With a little care, you can get back into the swing of things without blowing up any more tempers or raids!
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 9)
squig_masta Mar 25th 2011 6:27PM
We don't have direct evidene maybe, but the attitude he conveyed in that last paragraph speaks volumes.
'Shortly after my main joined, I got the guild raiding and progressing, and took them from a guild with under 5 OS 10 man kills and almost nothing else, to a guild with naxx 10 fully cleared, Ulduar progressed to Hodir and ToGC fully cleared in under 2 months, and when ICC came out, we jumped right in and got our first Deathbringer kill in mid January.'
'I' took them? Him and him alone? One night did he chainpull every boss in naxx 10 and with his awesome talent manage to beat them into oblivion? I'm sure his leadership was a huge asset, but no one person gets a from one boss down to clearing raids. "And under my leadership, we...' may have been believable. 'I took them from x to y?' Was that before or after you flew all around the world in one night and one shotted Goliath with a single rock?
And how exactly did they only get to Hodir in Ulduar but clear ToGC? I guess that despite his leadership they never truly mastered the intricasies of killing trash.
For someone who put on a 'poor me, they wont explain things' story, he talks very highly about himself and his skills as a raid leader, and by exension a raider. If he was half as skilled as he wants us to think he is, he'd have at least done some cursory reading on what to expect from the raid long before pulling trash.
Bumblebee Mar 25th 2011 7:13PM
@Toad
"Perhaps Lisa didn't convey it properly, but I think she's calling BS on the story as told."
If that's what she meant, then you are right. She didn't convey her message properly. If she doesn't buy into the story she could just say it. That'd be totally okay too. But as none of us were there we really don't have any proof to say VT wasn't telling the truth. "Beyond a reasonable doubt." Can hardly say that with the evidence given we've moved past that point.
Carson Mar 26th 2011 8:11PM
@Randy: are you serious? You have to assume that every letter sent to Drama Mamas is offering a one-sided view of the situation intended to cast the writer in the best possible light.
Jeff (Not that one ^ ) Mar 25th 2011 2:33PM
Does this raid group pull even with a bad ready check? Select "Not Ready" and restart Vent. Did he try this at all? Restarting the client usually solves all of my problems with TeamSpeak. I don't use Ventrilo because I despise it, but come on. He doesn't mention even TRYING to solve his problems on his own, just blaming others for keeping pace.
Raid Leader was acting like a dick. This isn't in dispute, but other than telling people that Vent wasn't working for you in chat, you don't say whether you did ANYTHING to correct the problem.
Haro Mar 25th 2011 4:22PM
But it's RL's job to tell him "you can't raid with us without vent. Sorry, but please, leave the raid group."
It's as simple as that.
Super Marxio Mar 25th 2011 2:37PM
Lisa's response here is completely out of line, and I am very disappointed to see someone who should know better blaming the victim. Lisa, you sound like YOU might be "That Guy." It's a video game, and verbal abuse is NEVER appropriate. For shame.
xiaoyuyuan Mar 25th 2011 3:18PM
My comment got eaten up for some reason =x
Anyway, are you sure Vent is really a victim here? From my experience, a lot of these "victims" did something to aggravate the situation then managed to tweak their memories of these events and come running to blogs or forums and post their one-sided stories, hoping to gain sympathy.
Both parties didn't do the best possible thing given the circumstances, Lisa simply felt, with all "information" she garnered from his letter, Vent should be held responsible for the situation, even though the RL's attitude leaves much to be desired.
Primeval Mar 25th 2011 2:40PM
Really Drama Mama Lisa? Really? That's the best you can come up with? It's all Vent Troubles' fault and problem because he has recently returned to a game that's changed drastically in the past 3 months? It's mentality like this that discourages me from doing ANY form of pugs, raid or otherwise.. There are always two sides to a situation.. Yes Vent Troubles did have options he could have taken to remedy the vent problem, but the raid leader didn't address this.. Instead he attacked Vent Troubles' gear, play style, and basically personal attacked his character (and I don't mean toon).. If I were Vent Troubles, I'd listen to Drama Mama Robin.. At least she response is more constructive..
squig_masta Mar 25th 2011 9:06PM
When exatly did she say it was all Vent's fault? She merely pointed out that on his 1st night back to raiding with a guild after an almost yer long haiutus, he didn't know the boss, and did not take any steps to fix them himself. She even said that the RL overreacted, throwing 'a childish tantrum, true, and [she doesn't] condone his particular flavor of reaction.' She may have come off a bit harsh, but no matter how you look at it this was a problem that VT started, and he only took the most basic of steps to fix it. She isn't wrong for pointing that out.
Hrothgar Mar 25th 2011 2:40PM
The Guild Office was acting like a jackwagon but so were you, Vent. Nothing in game at this point is lacking in documentation. Read the strat guide for the boss, watch the vids, and read the forum posts.
However, this is something you can recover from if you do your homework and swollow your pride. The jackwagon officer won't change into sweetness and light so you either have to get used to it, ignore him, or bail to another guild.
Oh, and fix your vent. If none of the other members of the raid could get in to vent, the problem would be out of your hand. Obviously, something on your end is wrong. Find it and fix it. However, I do have to agree with you when you express confusion as to why nobody wanted to communicate with you after your repeated attempts to warn the RL about your situation. Bottom line for your guild mates is that the most effective form of communicating is to, you know, actually communicate. Once you're back in vent, give them a ration of crap wrapped in LOL brackets about ignoring you.
TinyLittleRobot Mar 25th 2011 2:41PM
Why do I feel like something else is going on here? He announced his vent wasn't working, they wiped a couple times and no one asked him to leave the raid? Or posted a strat? Why did they let themselves wipe 7 freaking times if it was just him that was causing it?
ALso, bad form Lisa. You don't blame the officer for going off on him? Why didn't he say something after the first couple wipes? This guy was doing his best but no one asked him to leave nor did they offer him help. I think we have a fail on both ends (He probably should've offered to leave) but the raid leader takes the lions share.
CDave Mar 25th 2011 2:42PM
Where were the other 8 raid members? Surely someone could have seen a message from Vent Troubles and relay some sort of message or spoken up about it. Reading the article makes it seem like everyone did the wrong thing here.
Namy Mar 26th 2011 5:42PM
I personally think Vent's story sounds a bit fishy. He was the healer and they wiped SEVEN times because he didn't know tactics yet all 9 of them kept going? Hmmmm. SOMEONE would have said something. Someone would have said 'wait for healer to fix vent' or /w him telling him to stay on/off tail or whatever. There is no way 9 individuals would allow themselves to die 7 times in a row knowing the healer doesnt know tacts. I don't believe we have the full story here.
I also cant believe he allowed himself to die that many times without saying 'brb Im going to read tacts/fix vent'. Who does that? 7 goes at the boss and no one said 'brb' at all? Or he couldn't say on next wipe 'would someone pls res me whilst I go fix vent?'. Rubbish.
Crystilia Mar 25th 2011 2:47PM
This may or may not help however it sounds as though your vent was lagging. It happens to mine all the time. When the sound catches up it's usually much later. Example: I got sindy strats on our third LK attempt. It can easily be cured by logging out of vent and reconnecting. So in that sense, yes you were at fault.
But I do not agree in any sense with what "That Guy" did or Lisa's response to the situation. If this guy wanted to down this boss he should have taken the time to explain things. I always have strats explained both in vent and I chat even if everyone can hear vent. It's just best to cover bases.
Also, the fact that this guy is an officer sets off a few warning flags. If I were you, I'd tastefully explain the situation to the guild leader, wait for a reply, and if nothing is done addressing te situation, calmly part ways with the guild.
This guy has what looks to be a toxic, drama loving attitude given that he didn't try to avoid conflict by keeping it in whispers and even posted what you said in guild chat. If he is THAT immature AND an officer, which means the guild leader trusts him, then you might as well cut your losses and leave before it happens again.
Shadda Mar 25th 2011 2:54PM
I have to agree with Lisa on this one. After the 1st wipe my reaction would have been to try and fix the problem. Restart vent or look up the strats while you wait for the group to die. Essentially the MT was faced with a player who came to raid unprepared, got loot, wiped the group 7 times, then had the gall to claim it wasn't his fault and place the blame entirely on the MT's shoulders. This utter lack of accountability is what would anger me. You can't deal with players like that, because no matter how many times they mess up a mechanic, they blame it on someone else.
albinosheltie Mar 25th 2011 2:52PM
I have to admit, I find both responses a little lacking. Spontaneous raid negates watching more than maybe one strat video while en route, assuming it was a fresh raid VT had not seen before. All this noise about being prepared and whatnot is only really valid if the raid in question is scheduled, thus giving VT time and opportunity to do so. Plus, there's one little thing that remains to be touched upon.
The raid was 10 people. Obviously, VT was unable to use vent to say there was an issue with their vent. That leaves 8 people, excluding VT and RL, who were in a position to relay VT's vent troubles to the RL via vent and either did (and the RL ignored it, making the RL a giant tool) or they didn't (making the remaining 8 players giant tools).
All this back and fourth about should have read strats, should have opted to bow out, it's all irrelevant, given what VT said was ignored. How would have typing out, "omg let me restart vent quick," have been any more productive?
Hana Mar 25th 2011 2:55PM
I think Lisa might have sound a little "fierce" but she isn't ENTIRELY wrong.
Vent did brought his problem up in raid chat, but after getting the same response or the lack of it, for a couple of times, shouldn't he do it differently? He could have said something like, "Hey guys, give me a minute or two to restart my vent to see if it fix the problem." or "Hey guys, my vent REALLY isn't working, give me 10 minutes to read up?" or he could asked to be replaced.
It is obvious that no one wants to help him (or at least that's what is he is trying to suggest), then it falls to him to rectify the situation and try to do something about it, instead of repeatedly banging his head against the wall.
Lisa did mention that the RL has attitude problems, but she felt that the main problem lies in Vent who couldn't fix his vent problem, allow the situation to worsen and still do nothing other than repeatedly posting the same lines in raid chat, in hope that someone would finally give up and spoon-feed him the information? Yes, the strategy used in that fight might be different from whatever sources you read from, but at least you will know what stuff is bad and when it is happening. So, in my humble opinion, Lisa isn't wrong in pointing out that "that guy" is Vent himself, she might have been a little fierce, but still not wrong, if you ask me.
jestergod Mar 27th 2011 7:59PM
understood, but at the same time, even if the letter writer were to type out to give him a sec to restart vent, who says that they would have waited, considering they've ignored them on several different occassions that he said his vent wasn't working.
they would have pulled without him, wiped and blamed him again for not moving because they were alt+tabbed out to restart vent.
xiaoyuyuan Mar 25th 2011 3:09PM
Yes, they might have go on and pulled, but at least he done something differently trying to salvage the situation. If he had done that, I would feel that the RL is COMPLETELY at fault here, but the fact is he didn't, maybe it is just me, I don't like people who obviously in some kind of trouble on their end and refused to do anything about it.
I had really bad lag issues back in Wrath, I volunteered to sit out so that the raid can proceed normally, if I acted like Vent, I would have said, "hey guys, my lag is really bad."
Then what? What can the rest of the raid do for me? Of course in the case of Vent, the RL could have done the explanation of the fight in raid chat, but he might just be a jerk or too lazy or whatever.
But I am sure Vent is leaving something out of his letter, I seriously doubt, 9 people would have ignored him completely and allowed the raid to run itself to the ground. I can never handle more than 3 wipes before I take things into my own hands and start telling people what to do. =p
codenm_maverick Mar 25th 2011 3:26PM
Terrible response Lisa,
The guy came out and told them that he was having problems and wasn't acknowledged. Had he even said I'm going to restart Vent, this group sounds like the type that would have cared less and still made it all his fault.
If they would have said anything along the lines ok see if you can fix it, they wouldn't have had issues. Technical problems sometimes can't be fixed in seconds, give the guy a break. He did everything right as expected of the situation.
As for the RL publicly bashing him and not listening to him try to resolve the issues, he should be taken out back and beaten. Lisa, you definetly came out on your response as "That Guy."