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The latest patch 5.4 newsArcane Brilliance: The constantly evolving, completely stagnant frost tree
by Christian Belt 
Mar 26th 2011 at 4:00PM
So here's the thing:
The frost tree frustrates me.
It is and always has been the preeminent mage spec for all varieties of PvP and right now is, in fact, one of the most dominant PvP specs in the game, period. It's an incredibly versatile and fun spec to play in PvE. It has a freaking water elemental.
But every time the damage capabilities of the spec look like they might be approaching a truly raid-competitive level, the same damn roadblock gets thrown up. Every single time.
The roadblock of which I speak, of course, is the perception that the only way to balance frost mages in PvP is to hamstring them in PvE. As someone who loves the spec and dearly, dearly longs for the day when frost mages can walk proudly into even the most elitist of raids with their heads held high and their DPS meters proudly displayed for all to see, this perpetual tug-of-war is a never-ending source of disappointment.
Why do I begin with such doom and gloom? Well, because frost mages are getting another buff, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let those cruel shysters fool me again. I'm on to you, class designers.
Fresh damage buffs on the PTR
Here are the latest notes from the PTR:
- Frostbolt damage has been increased by 10%.
- Fingers of Frost bonus damage applied to Ice Lance has been increased to 25%, up from 15%.
But immediately upon Blizzard's announcing these changes, the official mage forums lit up with threads decrying buffs to an already dominant PvP spec. I got killed by a frost mage yesterday, they shout. He swerved drunkenly into my travel lane and wiped out my whole family! Frost mages burned down my entire village, they cry. They made a necklace out of human ears like Dolph Lundgren in Universal Soldier! How could you buff them?
Perception versus reality
In Blizzard's recent Ask the Devs Q&A session, Bashiok addressed the perception of frost mages as "unbeatable." The very fact that he felt compelled to answer such a specific question simply underscores how widespread the sentiment that frost mages are overpowered is in the community.
Bashiok: The kit of the Frost mage is to have a lot of control and emergency buttons. This gives them a high skill cap, both in that it can be hard to stop a good Frost mage and it can be hard for less skilled PvP players to handle even a decent Frost mage. At the high end of PvP, we think Frost mages are balanced. It's everything below that where they can be frustrating to handle. We need to figure out ways to affect the latter without affecting the former. One solution is to take some of their control away, but make some of the remaining abilities undispellable. Those spells are always dispelled in high-end games, but less often in lower-end games.
I applaud the diplomacy here and agree wholeheartedly. Frost mages are powerful, but there are some pretty solid counters to them in the upper echelons of PvP. Where they seem unbeatable is in the lower tiers, when those counters either aren't known or aren't being properly deployed.
But the problem has never been reality with frost mages. The problem, as ever, is perception. The community feels frost is overpowered. Thus, PvE buffs never stick. We get them, but then some poor warlock who was too busy putting on eyeliner and singing along weepily to Coheed and Cambria to play properly has his face blown off by a frost mage in PvP, and those buffs are blunted to the point of irrelevance.
The unending class balance see-saw
Sigh. I don't mean to sound grumpy. It's just that I get so weary of this nonsense. Frost is a fantastic PvP spec. Nobody's going to argue that point. If you don't know what you're doing, and/or you aren't the right class or spec to properly counter frost, you're going to feel like frost mages are pretty damn unbeatable. If I take my arcane mage up against pretty much any kind of death knight, I'm going to feel the same way.
So the point behind these complaints is valid: Frost mages are powerful in PvP. In the ongoing quest for PvP balance, it's tough for any class/spec that feels like it's underpowered to see a class/spec that most consider to be overpowered get buffed. You lose to frost mages already; why would they need buffs, again?
But for the raiding frost mage, who has seen his DPS numbers go from poor to mediocre to almost competitive to crap on a never-ending, patch-by-patch cycle, those buffs are an absolute necessity. We desperately want to bring our incredible crowd control and unique utility into our guild's progression raids, but we need to be able to do so without gimping the group's damage output. So we dual spec to fire and only switch to frost in certain, very limited scenarios. And we wait for the next upward cycle. And then we wait for the next downward one.
How to fix this
The most obvious solution is also one Blizzard steadfastly refuses to acknowledge: separate PvP and PvE damage numbers. Frost has so much control that any time our damage gets anywhere near the vicinity of viable, it becomes far too powerful in PvP. Bashiok suggests that the class design team is looking at lowering frost's control in some fashion, but that's a bad fix. Control is what frost is about; removing it removes the flavor of the spec.
So in the end, the designers keep returning to the damage nerf well, which of course is why the more frost changes, the more it stays the same. This is what happens every single time. Damage is buffed, PvP becomes too powerful, damage is nerfed. PvE is only sporadically competitive, and only for a very short amount of time.
If frost is forever going to be a PvP-only spec, I wish Blizzard would just come out and say that. If not, my suggestion is this: Just make frost's damage spells do more damage to NPCs than to players. Not every spec needs this kind of hard separation, but clearly frost does. This allows balance to be tweaked without regard for making the spec overpowered in either aspect of the game.
I've said it before and I will say it here again, to whoever will listen: There is absolutely no reason mages can't have three distinct but competitive raiding DPS specs. None.
Entirely random Stephen King reference
I'm not bitter. I continue to applaud the incredible and largely thankless job the design team does balancing this enormous and complex game. And I'm not blind to the plights of other classes. I wish the same kind of universal viability for every class and every spec, except warlocks. I want there to be a choice of DPS specs for everyone. But most of all, I want to be able to play my frost mage without any snide comments, raid kicks, or demands that I switch specs. I hope for that glorious day when fire mages, arcane mages, and frost mages can walk together, arm in cloth-robed arm, across the threshold of the Firelands, there to meet and destroy the armies of Ragnaros with whatever elemental preference we see fit to dispense. I hope I can make it across the border.
I hope to see my friend and shake his hand.
I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams.
I hope.
Every week, Arcane Brilliance teleports you inside the wonderful world of mages and then hurls a Fireball in your face. Check out our Cataclysm 101 guide for new mages or our recent preliminary look at patch 4.1. Until next week, keep the mage-train a-rollin'. Filed under: Mage, Analysis / Opinion, (Mage) Arcane Brilliance
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
loveisabattleground Mar 26th 2011 6:46PM
Okay, I'll say it, for arguments sake . No, your frost speced mage can not do everything. You have to make a choice. If you want to do PVP, roll a frost mage, they are fantastic after all. If you want to raid, choose one of the other specs. Just as fun and fantastic.
The point of having choices, both in specs and talents, is you have to make them. By choosing one, you have to give up another.
Arc Apr 5th 2011 1:07PM
In a raid, wouldn't the "Arcane Tactics" Buff (3% Damage raid buff) count as something? If you did the numbers, you are adding a fair amount of damage to the group as whole in addition to your normal damage. (Much higher if you have to move less) Would raid leaders disreguard this buff for the added damage of a fire mage anyway? Also, you can give another caster a 3% crit buff. Fire mages do not do either of these buffs.
Vitos Mar 26th 2011 7:14PM
A possible solution, I would think, is an ability that has a longish cast time, but does proportionately more damage than Frostbolt.
With a long cast time, the Mage is going to have to stay still to get it off in both PvP and Pve. In PvP this will present a large issue, because it gives their opponents time to close the gap or to cast an interupt, or in some other way prepare- this means frost mages won't be buffed in PvP. In PvE, it would mean that yes, the mage would occasionally have to abandon the cast to get out of the fire, but otherwise, it could be a new primary nuke.
tl:dr- Make a spell thats essentially useless in PvP so you don't have to separate each spell into a PvP/E.
Just a crazy idea I had.
Animaneth Mar 26th 2011 7:59PM
in a raiding world dominated by mobility your option sadly wouldn't work.
The solution is as said in the post, drop the attitude of "it's gonna be to complicated for people" that blizzard shows towards the argument "separate numbers for pvp and pve". Or plainly recognize "you know what? mages, we know you are pure dpsers, but well you and rogues just became the only pures that only have 2 specs for raiding, and behave! or we will make you 1 raid spec, 1 pvp spec, 1 fail-at-both spec." (oh wait... not too far from our current state ;) )
Coldbear Mar 26th 2011 7:30PM
Reminds me of warlock players during TBC:
"I'm not OP, people just need to learn to play better."
Skrotus Mar 26th 2011 11:21PM
If warlocks were OP in BC, what were they in vanilla? If a warlock so much as looked at me back then I'd be caught in an unbreakable fear chain with more than enough dots to kill me. BC seemed pretty good comparatively (though of course I was playing a rogue, and cloak of shadows was basically an IWIN button vs warlocks at that time).
nikdaheratik Mar 29th 2011 1:57PM
True fact: back in BC if you managed to kill an SL/SL lock in pvp, the credits rolled and you got a special achievement as won of the few players to actually beat WoW. It was awesome.
Random_Tangent Mar 26th 2011 7:55PM
Wow. Shysters? Really?
Shrikesnest Mar 26th 2011 10:33PM
Plus ca change, plus c'est la mage chose.
themightysven Mar 26th 2011 10:34PM
what we need is a spell that takes forever to cast, but does so much damage that it's far and away the main part of a PvE rotation. of course the problem then becomes how dps has to move like every 4 seconds in Cata.
Murdertime Mar 26th 2011 11:26PM
The problem with Frost Mages in PvP is clothies and ranged in general have gotten significantly less squishy while still retaining all their squishy era emergency buttons.
And Frost has a metric f-ton of saud buttons, which coupled with their ranged abilities, kiting abilities that surpass FROST SHOCK! era shamans and the fact that they no longer splode from ambush crits is what creates the imbalance that makes them so dominant in pvp.
Yes, they're counterable. But the fact that the skill level needed to make them dominant is far lower than the one needed to kill them is something of a problem
Hinalover Mar 27th 2011 12:05AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Have Deep Freeze, when damaging a mob 1 or more levels above the player to place a debuff called, say, Hypothermia, that increases frost damage. Besides lower tier pvp, this should not impact 85 battlegrounds/arenas in any way, yet at the same time buff PvE damage.
Runzwithfire Mar 27th 2011 12:53AM
I'm actually kinda liking Hinalover's idea. Anyone remember the original Deathfrost buff that Frost Mages were going to get as part of their specialisation? Well rather than making that a buff to the mage which increases frost spell damage, make it a debuff that increases the amount of damage taken by the target from frost spells. Then you make players immune to the Deathfrost debuff.
You can easily tweak the PvE damage by changing the Deathfrost debuff, with the only changes to spells required being for fine tweaking. It kind of eliminates the whole 'we don't want spells doing different things in PvE/PvP' as the actual mechanics would stay the say, you'd just have an additional damage multiplier against mobs - and how would this really be any different from something like Critical Mass? In fact Frost Mages are the only spec that doesn't have any sort of raid buff/boss debuff (if you mention Replenishment I will slap you lol).
Hmmmm think I know my next blog topic....
BTW if you wanna see the new numbers for frostbolt and ice lance check out http://www.runzwithfire.co.uk/runzs-blog/mages-a-magecraft/99-4-1-patchnotes-update2 (wouldn't mind someone checking the numbers but I think I got it right)
If you want to read a good rant about other classes QQ'ing in the Mage forum then try this on; http://www.runzwithfire.co.uk/runzs-blog/community/98-gtfo-my-forums
/cast Ritual of Refreshment (Afternoon Tea)
/eat Battenburg
/drink Tea
Cheeselandman Mar 27th 2011 4:38AM
I think what this post stresses is that people need to understand other classes, especially in PvP. I know frost mages abilities- on any other class, I typically can at least put up a good fight against a frost mage because if it. I know when he'll do certain spells, and can anticipate it.
The reason mages are so OP or perceived to be OP at lower skill levels is because people think of themselves as playing one class. In PvP, you don't. You may play a class, but just as important as knowing your abilities is knowing your opponents abilities. You play against your opponents, just like in a raid against a boss.
When someone QQ's about a raid being too hard, or a class being OP, it can be because of genuine balance issues. But most of the time its because the complainer doesn't know or understand the encounter (or battleground).
TLDR: more important than the class you play is the class you play against.
Pyromelter Apr 6th 2011 5:55PM
"I know frost mages abilities- on any other class, I typically can at least put up a good fight against a frost mage because if it. I know when he'll do certain spells, and can anticipate it."
The problem is that you are still likely to die, even if you do everything right. This pretty much the definition of OP - where you do everything in your power to live and kill your opponent, but he still kills you every time.
I think the reason for this is simple, it's that frost mages have simply too much control. Because they have so many ways to mitigate damage and to control other players, it makes them unbalanced in pvp. So the way blizz deals with it is by decreasing their damage the idea being well we'll make mages do less dps since they are so good at freezing, kiting, snaring, rooting. The solution, in my opinion, is simple: Decrease their control and increase their damage.
Fire mages for the longest time were terrible in pvp. Once 4.01 hit though, they became totally viable for BG's because of their increased survivability tools as well as increasing player control by blast wave, dragon's breath, and impact fire blast stun, not to mention being able to cast scorch on the run. They kept the damage the same though, because a mage still won't last long when a warrior repeated charges him - the fire mage's control versus other classes is not as strong as a frost mage. This makes it balanced, at least in a BG situation, imo. So I think if they went the opposite way with frost, it would also be more balanced. Simply increase frost's damage, and decrease their control and survivability v. other players.
Liira Mar 27th 2011 4:44AM
Funny story, my GM plays Arcane. He tops meters (or comes close, his guild note requests a nerf)... He plays fire, he WRECKS the meters. You may be grumpy, Archmage, for the dominance of the class most brilliant in arcane matters will not truly be possible to challenge, not even by my own class.
The entire reason I love Mages is that Intellect is the primary stat for both the character and the player, regardless of spec... I hope this never changes.
Manadar Mar 27th 2011 7:01AM
Maybe you got beaten by a good feral before the patch, but don't come here telling us you still are. The roots are pretty much as effective as sheep as a CC, only they don't break on damage as easily, and if the druid goes into caster form to CC/heal, counterspell or sheep him.
Shepherd57 Mar 27th 2011 7:17AM
Nothing makes my day like shawshank redemption quotes and mage talk.
Silya Mar 27th 2011 9:03AM
Never mind buffing Frost.
How about a ranged AOE for Arcane? Frost mages, they get Blizzard. Fire mages, they get Flamestrike. What do we Arcane mages get? Arcane Explosion. Meaning you have to be where the explosion goes off. Why oh why can't we have an Arcane Blizzard? Arcane Strike? Even the new spells (Flame Orb, Ring Of Frost) are ranged, but the Time thingie we get is not, though it is awesome. For some reason, Arcane Mages lack utility like that. Even the Arcane rotation is way less diverse than for Frost or Fire.
And while I am on it, am I the only Arcane Mage who hates the fact that Arcane Missiles is now a proc? It used to be a real life saver in pvp at times - being able to autotrack a bouncing rogue as he ran rings around you was something I miss being able to do. And yes, I did pvp as arcane, because frost made it too easy.
Rant over. As you were.
Floppydog Apr 6th 2011 9:36PM
If you think frost AoE has it good and arcane has it bad, i suggest you try going over the fence and give the other side a try. The Blizzard spell is gonna get a rather substatial dps buff soon, i'm pretty sure of it, but right now it's so horrible that any decent frost mage is better off sticking to single target spells, even in huge AoE situations. And with only 20% of your damage as threat, going close and spamming AE ain't that bad. And hey, at least you can move while doing AoE!