Gold Capped: Milling and prospecting changes ahead?
Every week, WoW Insider brings you Gold Capped, in which Basil "Euripides" Berntsen aims to show you how to make money on the auction house. Email Basil with your questions, comments, or hate mail! This week's community post is the Auction House Junkies podcast's most recent episode.
The recent UI developer Q&A contained a little nugget that I found interesting:
Yes, we totally understand why this is a problem. The reason we can't make it work just like other trade skills, is that we don't know which herbs and ore you want to use. If you have some cheap ore and some very expensive ore, we don't want to accidentally use the expensive ore. There are a few ways to fix this. One is we just redesign Milling and Prospecting. If they were recipe-based, then we would know exactly which material to use. It would also add a huge list of repetitive recipes to your Professions pages. We could also make some kind of new UI (think of something simple, like the Reforging UI) to let you drag and drop the materials you want to use. The advantage of the "box" solution is we could also use it for Disenchanting.
I was thrilled to hear Blizzard's considering changing the way this works. I had always just assumed that the clunky design of milling and prospecting was on purpose to put a limit on how much ore or herbs one player could process.
Semi-permeable membrane
Right now, the three professions that require some intermediate, time-consuming step between raw materials and finished goods are jewelcrafting and inscription, and to a lesser extent, enchanting. You can't just create glyphs or cut gems out of raw farmed materials. You can create leatherworking goods out of raw farmed leather, though.
So what's the difference? Why don't leatherworkers have to spend hours ... I don't know ... "flaying" leather in order to use the profession to make finished goods? I always assumed that having a "dull and manual" process between raw mats and finished goods was put there deliberately to protect crafting profitability.
Cutting gems and making glyphs right now have two significant barriers to finished goods going up for sale on the AH: New scribes and jewelcrafters have to invest a lot of time in recipe acquisition, and everyone has to mill and prospect. The amount they have to do is directly proportional to the market share they have, so anyone who wants a larger share of the market is going to have to make some sacrifices to do it.
Completely AFK
If Blizzard removes milling and prospecting's manual and dull nature by giving us Prospect All or Mill All buttons, it'll in effect be allowing us to produce the same goods in less real time. I don't count smelting against my gold per hour, because I fill up my bags, click Smelt All, and come back after dinner and emails. I do consider the time spent prospecting 600 stacks of ore when I calculate gold earned per hour, though. It's time I can't be doing other activities, and it's so repetitive that I can't make myself enjoy it without a lobotomy (not unlike fishing).
A change like this would reduce the tradeoff between repetitive and monotonous work and finished goods (or rewards). This would change how the markets are split up, as anyone would be able to spam out goods onto the AH without paying too much attention to avoid running out of stock. This would spread the current margins being made among more crafters, as well as reduce prices across the board.
How could it work?
The devs' answer highlights some of the technical issues behind the UI as it stands now. Milling and prospecting could easily be made repeatable by having a special segment of the trade skill window where you could mill or prospect items the way you can currently craft items. The materials would be specific ore or herbs, and the only downside would be that you'd have to have one skill for each type of raw material. Still, this segment could be made to default to filter out skills you don't have the mats in your bags for.
Much more interesting would be some new code that would allow for a more sensible interface that could also be made to work for disenchanting, as well as maybe allow queuing of more than one type of raw material for processing.
One way it could work would be to have a separate box that would show you the processable items in your bags (and bank? please?) with a big Process All button that would mill, prospect, and disenchant everything on the list. You could also drill down and individually process items, or create a queue of items to process in a batch. For disenchanting, you'd probably want to have it automatically filter out soulbound items, as well as group items in your bag by either ilevel or rarity. While it was going, it would show you how much time was left.
Add in a persistent (and obviously configurable) permanent ignore list, and you've surpassed the level of functionality that you can find in the AutoDE function of Auctioneer!
Onward and upward
I am really glad that the UI Q&A was posted. It's comforting to know that someone's paying attention to the non-"core" parts of the game that entertain us auctioneers. Now, if Blizzard would just make the in-game AH as good as the mobile one and implement persistent want to buys, I'd be one happy AH junkie.
Maximize your profits with more advice from Gold Capped as well as the author's Call to Auction podcast. Do you have questions about selling, reselling and building your financial empire on the auction house? Basil is taking your questions at basil@wowinsider.com.
The recent UI developer Q&A contained a little nugget that I found interesting:
Quote:
Milling and Prospecting are incredibly dull and very manual tasks at present, especially when you do them in bulk. Speaking as a scribe, the entire manufacturing process from herb to pigment to ink to glyph is both time-consuming, boring and sending me well on my way to repetitive stress wrist and index finger injuries.
Milling and Prospecting are incredibly dull and very manual tasks at present, especially when you do them in bulk. Speaking as a scribe, the entire manufacturing process from herb to pigment to ink to glyph is both time-consuming, boring and sending me well on my way to repetitive stress wrist and index finger injuries.
Yes, we totally understand why this is a problem. The reason we can't make it work just like other trade skills, is that we don't know which herbs and ore you want to use. If you have some cheap ore and some very expensive ore, we don't want to accidentally use the expensive ore. There are a few ways to fix this. One is we just redesign Milling and Prospecting. If they were recipe-based, then we would know exactly which material to use. It would also add a huge list of repetitive recipes to your Professions pages. We could also make some kind of new UI (think of something simple, like the Reforging UI) to let you drag and drop the materials you want to use. The advantage of the "box" solution is we could also use it for Disenchanting.
I was thrilled to hear Blizzard's considering changing the way this works. I had always just assumed that the clunky design of milling and prospecting was on purpose to put a limit on how much ore or herbs one player could process.
Semi-permeable membrane
Right now, the three professions that require some intermediate, time-consuming step between raw materials and finished goods are jewelcrafting and inscription, and to a lesser extent, enchanting. You can't just create glyphs or cut gems out of raw farmed materials. You can create leatherworking goods out of raw farmed leather, though.
So what's the difference? Why don't leatherworkers have to spend hours ... I don't know ... "flaying" leather in order to use the profession to make finished goods? I always assumed that having a "dull and manual" process between raw mats and finished goods was put there deliberately to protect crafting profitability.
Cutting gems and making glyphs right now have two significant barriers to finished goods going up for sale on the AH: New scribes and jewelcrafters have to invest a lot of time in recipe acquisition, and everyone has to mill and prospect. The amount they have to do is directly proportional to the market share they have, so anyone who wants a larger share of the market is going to have to make some sacrifices to do it.
Completely AFK
If Blizzard removes milling and prospecting's manual and dull nature by giving us Prospect All or Mill All buttons, it'll in effect be allowing us to produce the same goods in less real time. I don't count smelting against my gold per hour, because I fill up my bags, click Smelt All, and come back after dinner and emails. I do consider the time spent prospecting 600 stacks of ore when I calculate gold earned per hour, though. It's time I can't be doing other activities, and it's so repetitive that I can't make myself enjoy it without a lobotomy (not unlike fishing).
A change like this would reduce the tradeoff between repetitive and monotonous work and finished goods (or rewards). This would change how the markets are split up, as anyone would be able to spam out goods onto the AH without paying too much attention to avoid running out of stock. This would spread the current margins being made among more crafters, as well as reduce prices across the board.
How could it work?
The devs' answer highlights some of the technical issues behind the UI as it stands now. Milling and prospecting could easily be made repeatable by having a special segment of the trade skill window where you could mill or prospect items the way you can currently craft items. The materials would be specific ore or herbs, and the only downside would be that you'd have to have one skill for each type of raw material. Still, this segment could be made to default to filter out skills you don't have the mats in your bags for.
Much more interesting would be some new code that would allow for a more sensible interface that could also be made to work for disenchanting, as well as maybe allow queuing of more than one type of raw material for processing.
One way it could work would be to have a separate box that would show you the processable items in your bags (and bank? please?) with a big Process All button that would mill, prospect, and disenchant everything on the list. You could also drill down and individually process items, or create a queue of items to process in a batch. For disenchanting, you'd probably want to have it automatically filter out soulbound items, as well as group items in your bag by either ilevel or rarity. While it was going, it would show you how much time was left.
Add in a persistent (and obviously configurable) permanent ignore list, and you've surpassed the level of functionality that you can find in the AutoDE function of Auctioneer!
Onward and upward
I am really glad that the UI Q&A was posted. It's comforting to know that someone's paying attention to the non-"core" parts of the game that entertain us auctioneers. Now, if Blizzard would just make the in-game AH as good as the mobile one and implement persistent want to buys, I'd be one happy AH junkie.
Filed under: Blizzard, Economy, Gold Capped







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Necromann Mar 31st 2011 3:08PM
I would still be worried if there was an auto DE option. Off sets beware.
CaryEverett Mar 31st 2011 4:07PM
I would see it best done as something not unlike the window for trading items to another player menu.
Just like a scrolling window which is like, 4-8 slots wide, and a few few hundred slots long for disenchanting items. Run around shift clicking everything in your bag that you want to disenchant into that disenchanting window.
Hit disenchant. Return in a while.
The Dewd Mar 31st 2011 5:06PM
I like the way you think, CarryEverett. I was picturing something similar, though perhaps with more slots (think of an empty outgoing mail where you can add items/stacks one at at time).
Depending on how fancy Blizzard wants to be they could do a "prospect/mill/DE" ALL or just let you drag/drop an entire bag onto the UI. The biggest problem with a mass breakdown of mats would be if you have a full stack each of different herbs you could wind up with more individual bagspaces of pigment than you had of herbs. Presumably the UI would be smart enough to just stall - much like crafting multiples of anything stalls when you run out of bagspace.
Moobs Apr 1st 2011 9:24AM
I read this article and had the same thoughts.
If they just created a window that had like 20 or 30 slots that you could put stuff you wanted to mill, prospect or DE.
Put the items in the window hit go come back when it is done, then it could be just like smelting, it will take 5 minutes, go get a coffee.
It sounds to me that they are overthinking this one.
Saeadame Mar 31st 2011 3:13PM
Hm, I don't know. Right now I can mill a bunch of stuff and watch a movie at the same time, I just have my macro (which casts "milling" and then /uses all the cataclysm herbs, so I have /use Whip Tail, /use Cinderbloom, etc in the same macro so I can mill them all). I bind the macro to a convenient key, put WoW in windowed mode and move it to the side, pull up a movie, put WoW on top (but not covering the movie) and press my keybind every 4 seconds or so while watching (sometimes that's hard to remember, so I do it on each different spoken line or camera change or something, to help me remember). If you keep the cursor where you can see it in the corner of WoW, it'll let you know when it's done because the cursor will stay lit up.
Either way, I'd still be really happy to just be able to go "mill all" since then I wouldn't have to do that, but it's not like you're totally restricted to staring at your game the entire time you're milling.
Basil Berntsen Mar 31st 2011 3:21PM
The thing is that I never actually watch anything on the computer. All I do is play, write, and podcast. There's two tiers of grinding, in my book: afk (like smelting, crafting, etc) and at the keyboard (like milling, prospecting, mining, fishing, etc). The second tier can't always be be considered "free" the way the first one is.
Abbadon Mar 31st 2011 4:20PM
I don't have cable... So all my TV comes from Hulu, etc... And every now and then, I'll stream something from Netflix. Dual monitors FTW!
That is the ONLY way I've maintained my sanity with the monotony that is milling.
And actually... The better description is that I'm watching a show and printing gold on the side. I'm kinda burnt out right now. I still enjoy raiding. But dailies, finishing quests / zones, achievements, etc... just don't make me want to play. Ohhh for the love of money! I love that I can watch TV or a movie and click, click, click my way to excessive in-game wealth.
rip Mar 31st 2011 3:16PM
This would make my JC very happy! I can't hardly keep up with the shuffle. This morning alone I was 160 stacks of obsidium at ~30g per. Spent the better part of my lunch hour prospecting...
Abbadon Mar 31st 2011 4:26PM
Haha, yea...
The cata herbs finally hit the equivalent of all the old herbs this week on my server. So when I first saw them showing up at 6-8g per ink, I bought about 600 stacks of herbs!
I still buy about 50 stacks a day... Currently got a bit over 300 stacks clogging my mailbox.
quickshiv Mar 31st 2011 3:27PM
I use macros to do all my milling / DE / Prospecting
/cast Prospect
/use Elementium
you still have to click a button for each action.
There are of course ways to make certain devices click the macro every 3 seconds but you might be breaking the ToS/RoCs/EULA/WTFBBQ or something.
Basil Berntsen Mar 31st 2011 3:34PM
Anything that repeats a button press for you is breaking the ToS. Specifically, milling, prospecting, and disenchanting are expected (currently) to be triggered by an actual key-press every time. Anything outside of this is considered botting.
nikdaheratik Mar 31st 2011 3:55PM
First of all, I use that macro alot and it doesn't require more than one as you simply have multiple /use lines (/use Elementium followed by /use Fel Iron Ore etc). Since this could probably be implemented by one of those bird pecker toys, I don't think there are serious EULA problems. The other issue is collecting what you prospected and putting it into your bags, so I guess it's a two pecker problem.
I think the best solution would just be, like the devs mentioned, a drop box kind of thing like they have for reforging where you could just drop one (or maybe multiple stacks) and it would do the prospecting a stack at a time. This sort of thing would be difficult to macro without breaking the EULA, but would still be much more convenient than currently. The only downside to that is the bag space issue.
Basil Berntsen Mar 31st 2011 5:30PM
That macro is totally legal- I was replying to this part:
"There are of course ways to make certain devices click the macro every 3 seconds but you might be breaking the ToS/RoCs/EULA/WTFBBQ or something."
quickshiv Mar 31st 2011 6:35PM
"First of all, I use that macro alot and it doesn't require more than one as you simply have multiple /use lines "
This is absolutely true I was just making a simple example.
"The other issue is collecting what you prospected and putting it into your bags, so I guess it's a two pecker problem."
You need to turn on autoloot.
@Bill
"Anything that repeats a button press for you is breaking the ToS. "
This is not exactly true or very clouded. The ToS defines bot as automation software which mean many different things. Multiboxing does exactly what you are saying is breaking the ToS but it has been confirmed by blizzard GMs that multiboxing is acceptable. You press 1 button and your mutiboxing app repeats it to all of your accounts. The different charters then all perform an action. 1 button press multiple actions they just happen at the same time.
Is a toggle macro that pushes a button every 3 seconds a bot? Probably but by a bare thread. When something so is painful that people start slipping into that gray area you can't really blame them and I am sure no one will get banned for it. It is good they are making a change so we won't have to worry about it.
Neyssa Apr 1st 2011 3:07AM
I have a question about this:
I bought a mouse for my boyfriend a few weeks ago, called Revoltec Fightmouse
(http://www.revoltec.net/revoltec.net/index.php?StoryID=7&ArticleID=354&WorldID=3&websiteLang=en)
The mouse itself can be macroed in its setup window. You can set one button on the mouse to work as a macro (You can see the macro setup here (second picture)
http://xsreviews.co.uk/2011/02/ozone-smog/5/
Here in the example is: wait 63ms -> Press & hold key 'S' ->wait 94 ms -> Release key 'S' -> wait 93 ms -> Press & hold key 'T' etc. ).
Is this a cheat and breaking EULA? My boyfriend set up a warrior killing macro, and now i was wondering if I could just set the same up for milling. I mean I am not tweaking WoW, or using cheat program, it is built in in the mouse.
PictoKong Apr 1st 2011 7:43AM
@Neyssa
The best way would be to contact a GM or something about it (maybe on the forums) to see if it's against the rules. Personnaly, i think you could be banned for it, since you can do more then one action with a button press
Puntable Apr 1st 2011 10:41AM
I just tape a small bag of catnip to the keyboard and let my cat do the milling.
Sinthar Apr 4th 2011 10:20AM
"When something so is painful that people start slipping into that gray area you can't really blame them and I am sure no one will get banned for it."
Like fishing, mining, herbing, or even Archeology maybe?
Remember a LOT of people were just perma banned for using bots to help with the monotonous grind that is archeology. Personally I would NOT be sure "no one will get banned for it". In fact I would bet they WOULD get banned for it, but I dont need to bet, the people thinking the same as you already are betting - their WOW accounts - that they wont get banned.
quickshiv Apr 4th 2011 5:36PM
LoL Ok I know this thread is dead but I have to respond to the above post. What you are talking about is COMPLETELY different then what I was suggesting and why the term bot shouldn't get thrown around so much.
Arch bot - Specifically violated Additional License Limitations section C of the TOS
"use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, “mines,” or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game"
All usb HIDes emulate key presses through their drivers. There is absolutely no way to tell the difference between a person hitting a 3 key on their keyboard and the keyboard just sending the "3" by itself.
The Authorized WoW mouse made by steelseries offers the exact same functionality that Nyessa's mouse does. If Blizzard is going to brand and authorize a piece of hardware I can not see how they could justify banning someone for using it.
@Nyessa - Asking a GM is useless. They do not have any definitive answer for this question because they want it to remain gray. They want to say No don't do it but they can't say they will ban you. If you ask 3 GMs the question you are going to get 3 different answers. The biggest thing they will say is you can not use it un-attended. The biggest problem with Kill macros is they just don't work very well. You are usually better off making an in game cast sequence macro that resets on combat and just spam the crap out of it.
MattKrotzer Mar 31st 2011 3:27PM
I wish there was a way to automatically enchant/re-enchant a piece X number of times, so that if you're just trying to level enchanting, you don't have to click the enchant, click the item and then click to overwrite the current enchant 25+ times.