Scattered Shots: Musings on hunter haste design

One of the many goals with hunters in Cataclysm was to make haste a more attractive stat and a more intuitive stat. Back in Wrath, haste was an almost comically poor stat for hunters. Just about the only thing it did for us was increase the rate of fire of our Auto Shots. While it was still a beneficial stat, it was so much worse than all the rest that hunters would bend over backward and jump through hoops to avoid dirtying themselves with it.
Blizzard certainly succeeded in making haste a more attractive stat for us in Cataclysm. It did not, however, score well on making haste more intuitive. In fact, haste is far more complicated and less intuitive than ever before. At certain points, haste is very good for us; then when we get past those haste plateaus, suddenly haste is much, much worse, until we hit another plateau when it's suddenly good again. And of course, these plateaus are radically different for each spec.
While I'm glad we no longer have a nearly useless stat, I do hope that Blizzard continues to tinker with haste to make it work a bit more smoothly and remove some of the unnecessary complexities. In fact, I even have an idea of where to start.
Join me after the cut for Frostheim's haste design theory.
The way designers think
I have a background in the tabletop game industry, and I've had the pleasure of working with some great game designers -- Eric Lang, Darrell Hardy, and Kevin Wilson among them. One of the interesting things about talking with game designers is that they all think about games in similar ways, whether they make board games, CCGs, Facebook games, or computer games.
Game designers are obsessed with simplicity and strategy (well, and fun -- and listening to game designers dissect what makes mechanics fun is fascinating stuff, but another topic).
Designers want to come up with mechanics that are simple and intuitive but have a depth of strategy behind them. One of the very first mantras that they learn way back in game designer kindergarten is that more complicated doesn't mean more strategic, and it certainly doesn't mean better.
Games like chess are a common example of games with incredibly simple rules but amazing depth of strategy. Designers are going for that idea -- they want the strategy and depth, but they want to achieve it as simply and intuitively as possible.
Another interesting thing about working at a gaming company for any length of time is that you get to hear from hundreds of armchair designers -- gamers who think they've made the next great game. The incredibly common theme of all those massive board games (they're always giant, $100 board games) are loads and loads of complicated mechanics upon mechanics, all of which add no strategy or depth to the game but sure as heck make it harder to understand. There's something about the game consumer's mind that equates more complicated with better.
Of course, every time I write a column like this one, I wince a little inside at the thought that I'm becoming one of those armchair designers ...
Intuitive stats
Along with simplicity comes the desire for intuitive mechanics. This gets more important the large and more complex a game is. In a game like WoW, you can't possibly expect a player to read a massive rules tome explaining exactly how every mechanic works. Instead, the overall gist of the mechanics should be obvious just through playing.
Most of our stats are in fact very intuitive. I can see a newer player messing around in WoW for a few hours or a few days just getting them.
- Crit rating? Makes me crit more, right? Right.
- Hit rating? Makes me hit more, or miss less, right? Right.
- Mastery, er (looks at his BM window), makes my pet do more damage, right? Right.
- Haste? Makes me shoot faster, right? Ri ... well, kinda. For some shots, yes, for other shots no, and for other shots, sometimes yes and sometimes no.
Haste does not increase the rate at which you can fire any of your special shots -- though technically, with haste increasing your focus regen, it does in a very non-intuitive way increase the number of focus-dump shots you can fire. Unfortunately, with our base focus regen being so low (at 4 focus per second), haste doesn't have a very large effect on that.
The most noticeable effect of haste is lowering the cast time of our filler shots, Cobra Shot and Steady Shot. Unfortunately, that doesn't actually mean that we fire more of them. Sometimes at certain haste plateaus, we suddenly get to fire an extra one, but a lot of the time we can stack haste and stack haste but still fire the same number of filler shots.
Hunter signature shots
As hunters, our filler shot is gated by our signature shots. These are our super-desirable, big-damage shots that are locked into a cooldown. These shots are great and a fantastic and interesting design, by the way, but because they're so desirable, we rarely want to delay them by more than a very short amount of time.
So if we can fit three filler shots between our signature shot, and then we get 10% haste ... well, we're still firing three filler shots between each signature shot, and then just waiting for a tiny gap of time to fire our signature shot.
Thus, if our signature shot has a 6-second cooldown, then we're firing three filler shots every 6 seconds. But if we can get enough haste to suddenly lower that filler shot cast time to being close to being able to fit four of them in, now we see a sudden leap in shots fired, and our DPS jumps!
Up until that point, the only thing that haste is doing for us is improving our Auto Shot and focus regen (and helping our pet), and isn't a great stat. But when we reach that plateau, suddenly haste is phenomenal for us.
You could argue that this kind of complexity separates the wheat from the chaff and lets the skilled players (or, you know, the ones that read blogs and/or Elitist Jerks) rise to the top. However, more complicated does not make it better. As it stands now, haste is certainly not an intuitive stat, and it adds more complexity than I think is good for the class. I'd rather see players focus on their playing rather than drowning in a morass of specific stat cutoff points.
A streamlined haste solution
Personally, I think the solution here is pretty simple and straightforward -- though certainly it's a dramatic enough change that it'd take a lot of testing and rebalancing of the class:
Allow haste to reduce the cooldown of our signature shots.
Now, along with this, you'd have to set those cooldowns in a way that worked logically with the filler shots (or set the Cobra/Steady cast time in a way that worked logically within the cooldowns). So perhaps your Cobra Shot has a 2-second cast time base, and then your Explosive Shot has a 7-second cooldown base. You can fit exactly three Cobra Shots between each Explosive Shot.
Now you get 10% haste. Guess what? You still fit exactly three Cobras between each Explosive. You are firing both your Cobra Shot and Explosive Shot 10% faster. You get 10% more haste, and you get 10% more shots.
Not exactly, of course; there's our focus dump, which will continue to scale bumpily, and of course our DoTs and whatnot. But now, the majority of our damage is affected intuitively by haste. Your rotation is what your rotation is, regardless of your haste level. It'll still change up based on talent procs, and with more haste, you'll regen focus faster and thus have to fire more focus dump shots.
But now haste would work the way it seems like it should work, and it removes a bunch of gear-juggling complexity that didn't really increase the strategy of the class. Now pair that up with a careful rebalancing of shot damage, and we have a haste solution that I think would be a vast improvement for the majority of hunters.
What do you guys think? Do you like the extra haste complexity that we have now? Or would you rather have a cleaner, simpler solution, as long as haste remained a viable and competitive stat?
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
shaun.harvey Mar 31st 2011 10:06AM
I'd like to see haste have more of an impact on focus regen. Changing your rotation by giving you more focus to put in Arcane Shots might be a bit more interesting. Though it may make it a bit more complicated by being too reactive, and also for it to be enough of a change there might be a point where it would just get rid of Steady/Cobra Shot.
Carl Mar 31st 2011 10:16AM
I thinnk Hast should be a stat you could use to change your playstyle, lowering or raising your GCD and cast times. So you could chose to be a rapid fire but not hit so hard or you can hit really really hard but not fire as much. It would allow a speciallization in PVE and make PvP more intersting.
Thiron Mar 31st 2011 10:15AM
Personally I like having haste plateaus over having fixed "stat weight" for it. Extra haste can be used to break boring rotations, especially if you are BM with random focus procs from invigoration. In raid environment, we also get sudden haste buffs/debuffs/cast delays/movements/switching targets... You can both break or get a sudden haste plareau there.
Of all specs I think MM with hard-casting AS have close to linear haste behavior. SV rotation is very constant and most boring, and BM has some randomness with their procs and Bestial Wrath.
Frostheim Mar 31st 2011 10:26AM
How do you mean? To me, if I'm bored with my 3 filler - 1 signature rotation, moving to a plateau that makes it 4 filler - 1 signature doesn't suddenly make it more interesting.
Right now, haste does not make for dynamic rotation -- yes at different plateaus it changes, but you're only going to be at one plateau at any given time. Your plateaus change with your gear (or raid buffs), they don't move around mid-fight. Obviously the exception here is your Rapid Fire period.
Thiron Mar 31st 2011 10:53AM
For example, move from 3-1 to 4-0/3-2 switching or something like that.
Keep extra arcanes to that second when you might be without Focus Fire because of boss movement
Keep focus-positive rotation and push arcanes on movement without aspect switching.
Or keep rotation slightly focus-negative and count on timely procs.
All specs have some random focus-saving factors - SV has LnL; MM has Aimed Shot! - well, as I said, MM-AiS is most linear with haste; BM has invigorate, bestial wrath AND focus-saving Killing Spree. During BW rotation is usually like 1-3 or 1-4. Going from 1-3 to 1-4 to 0-5/1-4 in bestial wrath is also DPS gain, though I haven't calculated exact point when you have enough haste for it.
Also, latency. Having some buffer haste does matter.
Noctune Mar 31st 2011 10:24AM
Some caster classes that relies on dot dammage haste is alot worse to calculate
we got multiple plataus for several spells and we like to find sweetspots where we got the best benefit for the haste we got.
Haste will affects the number of tics at certain levels of haste.
Only way to see what to aim for at the more complex classes is to make a spredsheet and i did one for my shadowpriest awhile ago with the dot's ticking and haste ratings from 10% ----> 40% in 0.01% intervals and notice where the bumps happen. then if i can't reach next bump slot i whould reforge away from haste.
But yes i whould love to see the Haste mecanics change its to confusing and that i need to use a spreedsheet to check if adding haste will help me or not is just plain wrong.
Boobah Mar 31st 2011 2:45PM
"Some caster classes that relies on dot dammage haste is alot worse to calculate
we got multiple plataus for several spells and we like to find sweetspots where we got the best benefit for the haste we got. "
I really, really, wish that idea would just go die in a fire. Haste plateaus for DoT casters mean pretty much nothing, because not a one of them chooses their spells based on mana efficiency, and it takes minutes of combat to get a whole GCD each time you cross one of these 'plateaus.'
The long and the short of it is that while these plateaus exist, it's pretty rare for them to have a meaningful effect in changing your stat priorities. Either you're already stacking haste, so even right after a plateau it's still better than your other options, or even right before the plateau it's still behind. And that's before pointing out that just about any class with more than one DoT has differing haste plateaus for each.
Caveat: Balance druids may be an exception here (I don't roll boomkin), both because all their dots are six ticks over 12 seconds, and because they have a DoT (Sunfire) that can't always be cast on demand.
HoTs are a different matter; with the exception of Lifebloom, you're rarely rolling it on a target the way one does with DoTs, and mana efficiency does matter for healers.
Gimmlette Mar 31st 2011 10:24AM
I've always felt that haste simply made me shoot faster, occasionally. I use it usually at the end of a boss' life when the healer is down to 5% mana and the tank is at 10% health, my pet is dead and I'm waiting on the GCD for my big shots.
Elleyna Mar 31st 2011 10:27AM
I absolutely love this idea. Haste is more complicated right now than ArP was at the end of LK. I've been tinkering around the last couple weeks with glyphs, rotation, etc because so many guides are conflicting that I always have something new to try out. I don't think it's a bad thing for hunters to have a more dedicated priority rotation that doesn't change based off of haste levels.
Hob Mar 31st 2011 10:28AM
"But your special shots are all kittiwompus."
The original Kitty Wompus was, I believe, a sexy villainess in a James Bond movie?
Aurilia Mar 31st 2011 10:29AM
I don't necessarily worry about haste softcaps to achieve extra shots - especially as Marksman, it's usually 2 Steady Shots to maintain the haste buff, followed by a number of Chimera and Arcane shots (or Aimed Shot! procs), and then back to 2 Steady Shots.
However, there is a secondary benefit to more haste besides the increase in dps. Almost all encounters require at least sporadic movement - not usually enough to warrant the dps drop from being in Aspect of the Fox the entire fight, but enough that, while pewing on the boss, you find yourself suddenly having to move out of the fire. Haste improves the likelihood of a cast-time shot going off in between required movement.
Grovinofdarkhour Mar 31st 2011 10:29AM
So simple and obvious, it's perfect. You're right, they're wrong. All hail Frost.
techvoodooguy Mar 31st 2011 10:36AM
"What do you guys think?"
Your idea is sound logically. I don't like how complicated haste is now simply because it's a PITA to determine whether or not an 'upgrade' is really an upgrade because it has extra haste.
This would turn haste into a fantastic stat for us because more haste = more signature shots.
I'm trying to think of a pitfall, but none come to mind other than people blindly trying to hit 100% haste because "Then I won't have a CD on Explosive Shot!" Yes, you will. Your ES CD will be 1/2 of what it was.
Kheldul Mar 31st 2011 10:40AM
Mmm. I like the idea. I was initially thinking it might have flaws during periods of haste acceleration (heroism, rapid fire, etc), but it looks pretty good.
Nice thinking.
Visby Mar 31st 2011 11:05AM
Your idea is good, but I don't think it simplifies at all. If anything, it makes the plateau sweet spot even harder to find, and limits how much an individual can personalize their stats reforging for the playstyle they prefer.
Personally, I think the simplicity and usefulness of this stat would be better served by normalizing the stat based on lvl, and then displaying simply in terms of how many shots (show both auto and the focus dump shot for the spec) you can squeeze in. That way, you simply open up your character page, and look to see how reforging is affecting your output in between CDs.
It would be cool to see a mechanic for certain shots that would proc extra dmg or ability if cast in a certain amount of time from it's last, and the damage scaled to the amount of focus dump shots in between. This would serve to do two things at once: 1. Help teach a new person to the class how to use their shots (other classes like priests and pallies have abilities that do this), and 2. Help to show direct benefit for upping haste, as that extra focus dump shot increases a proc (perhaps even with an extra little visual effect)
So many options in this game, which is why I love it, and love being a hunter.
tennysonxii Mar 31st 2011 11:54AM
I don't see how it would complicate things. More haste = more shot rotations per minute. Easy peasy. There wouldn't be any plateaus.
icepyro Mar 31st 2011 11:57AM
The problem with haste for hunters is that haste works the same way for all classes. Which is nice for all classes, except hunters.
That is to say that the 1 second GCD is the minimum GCD. Other classes benefit from haste because it lowers their GCD... to 1 sec minimum. With only one real ability with a cast time (everyone picks either Steady or Cobra Shot and basically leaves the other off the bars and not many people raise pets or hearth in a scene where cast time matters) to then be affected, and nobody keeps up with autoshot or SS as long as it's applied to the target, it's easy not to see a benefit from haste except at certain exact numbers.
The cooldown system is the way it is because that's how it is for all classes. Blizzard wants there to be choice in what you fire next. If haste lowered the cooldowns as well, you really could make a rotation macro to spam. There are procs, but hunters are actually fairly proc-poor. Blizzard evidentially decided focus management was where the interesting decisions come in, but haste affects focus regen too. You really could just make a macro and as long as the one proc you may have doesn't trigger, go to sleep. I already know more than one hunter who plays BM and has 4 buttons on his action bar with number 3 being a rotation macro and maintains viable dps (often better than me trying to hit the buttons myself at least).
All classes have haste plateaus. Elemental Shaman were well known in Wrath to do exactly what many hunters do now, stack haste only if they can reach certain plateaus. It took some calculus and fancy charts to try to show them that any amount of haste still benefits because of other benefits. Even now I've seen some discussions of at what point Flame Shock (the only DoT) gets another tick, and calling it good there.
The same rules apply to hunters now. It is still a dps increase to have haste beyond those plateaus. I'm not saying haste is teh best the way it is for casters. I'm just saying haste is lessened on hunters because the class itself already incorporates most of the best benefits (1 sec GCD, few cast time abilities or DoTs, few procs). It does add up to have more haste, just not very much. Sadly (in respect to this article), I find it very intuitive because it does work the same as for other classes and I pay attention there.
Besides, every class needs at least one secondary stat that does help but is better to be reforged. :P~
Frostheim Mar 31st 2011 12:13PM
"You really could just make a macro and as long as the one proc you may have doesn't trigger, go to sleep. "
Changing the haste system doesn't change the viability or non-viability of rotation macroing (equally bad in both cases). It's also not just procs, but also our focus dump that interrupts our standard rotation (since your rotation is never perfectly focus neutral).
Right now if I have 10% haste, in practice (if I'm playing right) I fire the exact same number of Cobra Shots and Explosive Shots as I did without any haste. I don't think that's intuitive. By having haste affect the signature cooldown, I will then be firing 10% more cobra and Explosive Shots. The signature shots would still be cooldown-restricted, but the number of shots you can fit between that cooldown would actually scale smoothly with haste.
Also, haste isn't a secondary stat that we reforge away. Sometimes it's really good, and sometimes it's really bad. And the vast majority of hunters, I'd argue, would not be able to tell when which is which.
icepyro Mar 31st 2011 2:19PM
Been a while since I've been on my hunter. I was being facetious with that last comment about reforging. Although your comment actually proves that haste can still be good.
Either way, you do get the obvious increase in autoshots and extra ticks of SS (as long as it doesn't fall off) if nothing else with 10% haste (I thought hunting party/pathing affected CS, so you would get an extra shot).
To reuse my example, an Elemental Shaman casts the same number of Lightning Bolts between cooldowns of Lava Burst, whether they have 10% haste or no haste, and have to refresh Flame Shock (no cobra shot type mechanic, although that would be nice) to get enough ticks to get extra ticks (again, if it is refreshed before falling off), and don't even have auotshot. Sure, it's still more obvious because the global cooldown is 1.5 seconds (so it can be lowered by haste) and nearly everything is cast (so it's noticeable to see lower cast times).
Is haste intuitive? For a hunter that doesn't understand haste, I agree with you that it is not. As I said though, that's because it's not obvious. Hunters don't notice the extra tick or extra fire. That's not a bad thing; it's just a casualty of the system. It's still noticeable at higher levels (I notice haste at work during rapid fire, ancient hysteria, and even troll beserking). But you would have to stack it and it's just not good enough to stack over other stats, which is not a bad thing, at least it does something.
Sorry, but to me, I'd rather have mechanics work the same for all classes than to make exceptions like this.
Frostheim Mar 31st 2011 2:51PM
Note that hunter dots are not affected by haste.
I do agree that I'd like haste to work the same, and intuitively, for all classes. However, I do disagree with the notion (which is strangely common) that you shouldn't fix something for one segment if it doesn't fix it for everyone at the same time.