The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Cataclysm tanking, part 3

A week or so ago, while I was planning out this series of posts about tanking in Cataclysm, our old friend (well, okay, I've never met nor spoken to him) Ghostcrawler (lead systems designer) had some interesting things to say about the current state of hit and expertise for tanks. I wasn't able to immediately address them because I'd already written out what would be published, and so I had to wait until this column to talk about the history of hit and expertise for tanks in previous expansions and what the current state of the art is.
As warriors, we've been grappling with hit and expertise for years now. Why, you may ask, are they suddenly less viable for tanks than they were during Wrath? Well, believe it or not, hit and expertise have become less compelling for tanks entirely because of two big quality of life changes for tanks: the removal of parry hasting and taunt miss chance.
Detailing the shift
As GC himself points out, tanks working on new content will almost always make the trade-off between threat and survivability in favor of survivability. Tank deaths are often the end of an attempt on a boss, while in most cases, a loss of threat can be compensated for by taunting or threat drop abilities. It's hard to fault a tank for wanting to make the healer's job easier, especially now that mana is once again an issue in raid tanking and Vengeance exists to make threat less of an issue as time goes by.
Now, it's not the stated design goal of Vengeance to reduce threat issues as a fight goes on. It exists instead to keep tank threat comparable with DPS threat as DPS goes up, and it was designed to counteract situations like we saw in late Wrath when DPS was simply putting out so much more damage than tanks that threat became extremely touch-and-go without rogue and hunter threat handouts to tanks. Vengeance is in fact well-designed for that goal.
However, an inescapable side effect of Vengeance's design is that it ramps up as a fight progresses, and after it reaches its full extent, it can account for a great deal of attack power (10% of the health of a raid-buffed 10-man tank is 174,000/10 = 17,400 AP). Now, in order to reach this level of Vengeance, you'll need to take more than enough damage to kill you several times over, but that will happen while healing any raid boss attempt anyway. The stack will of course fluctuate as you hit an avoidance streak or tank swap or what have you. The point is, however, Vengeance serves to compensate for a lack of hit or expertise because after a time, when you as a tank do hit what you are tanking, you hit like a truck and can afford to have a few strikes be misses, dodges or parries.
Combine this with the fact that you no longer have to worry about your taunts missing and you don't have to worry about a boss parrying one of your attacks and getting to hit you back faster as a result, and you can see why hit and expertise simply aren't as impressive to survival-oriented tanks. If you're part of a disciplined group that watches its threat and doesn't pull aggro often, and you know you can rely on taunt to get it back in most cases anyway, then gearing for threat over gearing for not going splat simply isn't compelling.

For warrior tanks, another issue that compounds this situation is our tanking mastery, Critical Block, and how it works alongside Shield Specialization. Essentially, the protection mastery specialization and the Shield Spec talent work together to generate threat, because as a protection warrior gets more mastery, he blocks more often, and as he blocks more often, he generates more rage (5 per block). More rage means more threat because the vast majority of rage-using tanking abilities are direct threat generation moves. So as the protection warrior stacks mastery to increase his or her block rate (thus reducing damage incoming), he or she also gains more rage (and thus, more threat) without having to worry as much about hit or expertise. This ignores the fact that the very act of generating rage at all currently also generates threat. Test it out by using Battle or Commanding Shout after someone else in your party pulls sometime.
So what we have is a bit of a cascade: Hit and expertise only work as threat generation stats now, at a time when a desire for survival is at an all-time high for tanks who want to push content and new mechanics make other abilities and stats do more work. Hit and expertise fall behind in desirability as tanking stats when compared to dodge, parry, and armor (purely avoidance or mitigation) or mastery (which becomes a triple threat, increasing avoidance/mitigation and rage generation, thus threat generation). In essence, with the occasional miss compensated for by Vengeance and mastery's rage gen, and being parried now no worse than missing or being dodged, a warrior tank who wants to make healing easier has no compelling reason to gear otherwise.
Beefing up hit and expertise for tanks
So what's the answer? Well, Ghostcrawler suggested one (and please keep in mind that this is a very speculative suggestion) -- namely, making hit affect Shield Block. When I read this, I recoiled in horror, but after two weeks of considering it I have to admit it makes a consistent, logical sense for a warrior to need to precisely position his or her shield in order to fully block an incoming attack. The problem I have with it is that it's an indirect way of having hit modify a purely defensive move. Yes, hit is useful for DK tanks because Death Strike has to hit in order to heal the DK -- but warriors aren't DKs, and Shield Block doesn't heal a warrior tank.
Rather than apply hit so unevenly, I'd prefer to see what seems to me a more elegant solution, one based on expertise's old position as a mitigation stat. Since expertise reduced your chance to be parried, it reduced the chance the boss would parry-haste and hit you more often. So since hit reduces the chance you will be missed and expertise reduces the chance you will be dodged or parried, why not allow hit to also reduce the chance you will yourself be hit and allow expertise to add to your dodge and parry chance?
This could be accomplished in a number of ways. You could bake it into talents much as uncrittability was baked into various tanking talents; you could simply put it into the various tanking stances so that they automatically applied your hit and expertise to your miss and dodge and parry chances, or you could even have abilities that directly used hit and expertise to see how effective they are, à la the proposed Shield Block change. I like the idea of it being talent- or stance-based better, because it seems less punitive and more rewarding for the hit- and expertise-stacking tank. Balance would of course be an issue (expertise would have to have less defensive bang for the buck than dodge and parry currently do, as it also has an offensive bite they lack, for one example), but it's hardly insurmountable.
Heck, right now one race (night elves) have a flat 2% chance to be missed, a perfect tanking racial no one else can match. Making it so hit provides a form of that racial for every tank would go a long way toward making tanks like hit.
Next week, raid tanking.
Read: Cataclysm tanking, part 1
Read: Cataclysm tanking, part 2
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, News items, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Nazgrim Apr 7th 2011 1:49PM
Jabadabadana: The vast majority of the stamina increase in Wrath was just from what was on gear. Yes you could get an extra 10k maybe from gems, trinkets etc, but you didn't have to try to stack stamina to get loads of it, it was just there on the gear.
I've gone up maybe 50k hp just going from blues to epics so far and not got Hc raid gear yet. I can easily imagine us having 250-300k hp over the next few tiers. Vengeance is going to scale extremely well.
Karcharos Apr 2nd 2011 11:24PM
Downvoted as irrelevant to the discussion.
Grubba Apr 3rd 2011 12:45AM
Don't downvote spam. Report it.
Bikhai Apr 3rd 2011 4:33AM
It might be a horrible idea, it might overcorrect the problem, or it might not even fix it, but one thing I've thought about is the possibility of having your hit affect the percentage of threat you generate from your abilities, at least as a tank. That is, if you're at 4% hit, and the cap is 8%, you're doing 4/8 or 50% normal threat for your abilities. Capping is the only way to generate 100% threat, but it's not necessarily required depending on both your own and your group's abilities to watch their aggro. Of course, scaling doesn't have to be linear, so 4% out of 8% doesn't have to come out to 50% threat gen. For all I'm concerned, 0% hit could translate to 50% threat gen.
This would have an impact at lower levels of tanking for sure, but if I remember correctly, there are some talent mechanics that Blizzard has been able to implement only from the 81-85 level range, so this could potentially be the same.
Kazlowe Apr 3rd 2011 8:24AM
Rossi, I cringed when you suggested this on the podcast a couple weeks ago. :)
Seriously.....I'm a big fan, love ya, tanks unite and all. But GC's idea is too cool, and this one just seems a bit lazy and redundancy creating at the same time. Making a stat do something that other stats already do? Why even have the stats in question to begin with if they don't do something unique or previously stated.
Matthew Rossi Apr 4th 2011 4:17PM
I have to admit I loathe GC's idea and don't see why making Shield Block suck is 'cool'. Shield Block is already mastery dependent due to the Critical Block mechanic, making it dependent on TWO statistics is too much.
I guess I was never one of the tanks who had a problem with defense, which did double duty.
Sinistir Apr 3rd 2011 9:15AM
Why not just have each "miss" of an encounter decrease your vengeance slightly? That would keep hit a pure threat stat, and make it more attractive to warriors. I could see there being balance issues here, but Blizzard should be able to pull it off.
What do you guys think?
mbolter1981 Apr 3rd 2011 10:17AM
In your 3rd para under 'Detailing the Shift' you state, " Now, in order to reach this level of Vengeance, you'll need to take more than enough damage to kill you several times over..."
Actually, to attain AP = 10%HP, you need to take exactly twice your HP in damage. 5% of 2X = 10% of X where X=Tank's HP. So, if Tank's HP is 174K, then 5% of 348K damage will give him 17.4K AP which equals the 10% of HP cap via Vengeance.
At least, thats the way I read Blizz's Tooltip, but I could be wrong like I have been 2500 times before trying to interpret Blizz's tooltips correctly.
Cheers : D
Kazlowe Apr 4th 2011 6:52PM
I may have been a bit too strong. The Shield Block idea may not be the most awesomest per se. I'm just a fan of moving in the direction of having hit and expertise actually do something traditional/different/new that makes me think about my gearing/gemming/enchanting/stat weighting more.
Many people probably don't mind that threat stats are unimportant, but to me it takes away from the depth that comes with having to balance more stats.
Maybe I'm geeking out too much.....I need a sandwich.....
Nazgrim Apr 7th 2011 1:40PM
The single biggest change I want (and I can't for the life of me see why they changed this in Cata in the first place) is GIVE ME DAMAGE SHIELD BACK! It had bags of character, was a simple way of generating aoe threat, could clearly be made to scale with mastery (whereas before it scaled with Block Value) and was just amazing for generating threat. All you had to do was spend 1 talent point, get in the middle of the mobs and attract their attention.
Now I have to spend 2 talent points (which are twice as valuable) and waste 2 GCDs getting B&T rends spread round the mobs. I get fed up of asking the dps to give time for this to work (seriously dps, is 2 GCDs too long?). Tanking in Wrath was fun and easy, in Cata atm it is a chore.
I thought there was supposed to be a change in paradigm, that we were going to be valuing CC and that dps would have to learn to behave. I have to say I don't see this happening: trash mobs in 5 mans are being nuked down from the nano-second I press charge (Big blue Shaman bar 1st on Omen and I'm not even there yet). One group started moaning about my threat, I had to ask them how the hell I could be having threat issues when they weren't even out dps-ing me?! L2behave.
Matt Apr 14th 2011 2:52PM
My main is a prot warrior. My guild is currently 11/12 and I am our MT. I have been back and forth with all of my dps and healers about whether I should stay capped or not (my dps does NOT like to hold back). I have just recently dropped way below hit and exp cap in favor of survivability as we have just started pulling Neffy.
Since, in my opinion, threat for us as warriors is really only a problem for the first couple of GCDs, I had a thought that would be awesome to implement a Glyph or something along those lines (built into a talent etc) that say after a charge (typical opener), that it would grant X amount of hit and X amount of expertise therefore allowing us to not allocate full stats to these two. It would help compensate for the fact that we really do not NEED to be capped to successfully tank any raid bosses, but it sure would ease up on the initial pull problems if you are sitting way below caps. If your first Shield Slam misses or gets dodged/parried, you are going to be in a bit of trouble.
Thoughts?