Gold Capped: How much should you undercut?

This isn't the first time I've written about undercutting, and it won't be the last. The burning question of how much to undercut is something that just keeps coming up, not unlike the question of which pet is the best for the DPS.
If you ask people who don't sell on the AH, they'll give you a blank stare and make some comment about having a guildie craft it. If you ask an auctioneer with less than 100k, they'll say to never undercut more than a copper. To properly answer this question, we need to try and understand the effect that undercutting has on the market you're in.
Undercutting is the expression of supply pressure
I'm always harping on supply and demand in this column. I don't want to sound like your grade 8 economics professor, but the reality is that any question in any market can be boiled down to these forces, and it's a nice, clean way of thinking about problems that can help you make the best decisions.
The old adage is that price is the balance of supply and demand, but how does it really work? Well, when you make, farm, find, or steal something that's going to end up for sale, you haven't increased the supply until you're actively trying to sell it. Once you do try to sell it, you'll likely only start to find interested buyers when you make its price lower than your competition.
Undercutting this way is how supply affects price. There's no moral or ethical consideration here -- you're dealing with a comparison shopper who isn't going to pay more for your junk than someone else's unless they're a friend or a guildie who is feeling generous. The reason the price eventually averages out is that as the products are made available for less and less money, more and more people are willing to buy them. Assuming they usually buy the cheapest, it's going to push the price back up.
Mmm ... pie
Think of the market like a pie that's being split up among all the sellers active in it. Your undercutting strategy will partly determine how big of a slice you get. One of the most important factors in how much pie you find on your plate is how large the original pie was. When the prices are low, more people buy more items, which makes the pie larger. The profit margins are lower, though, especially when you're all competing for the same base mats. This trade-off means that as the prices go down, while the pie might start off a little larger, it will eventually taper off once the profit margin per item sold starts to get closer to zero.
The other important factor is how many people are sharing the pie and who is willing to work the hardest for their piece. One thing's for sure: If you undercut heavily, you'll sell more and have to craft more. Assuming you can make, farm, find, or steal enough to keep your stock levels ahead of the demand and sold items, you can easily use undercutting heavily to move a lot more goods. This works particularly well in markets with high margin (like glyphs). Whether lowering your margins and undercutting heavily is more personal profit or not, it sure costs your competition money and that's almost as good as having money yourself.
An example of this is if a nice segment of glyphs on your realm cost something like 120g, you can make an excellent profit by mass-crafting those glyphs and posting them all at once for 40-60g. The worst case scenario for the cost of a glyph is 30g, assuming you have to trade in (or use) three Blackfallow Inks at 10g to make it.
Glyphs tend to go up in price over the long run because it takes so much time and effort to produce them that the thin margins drive opportunist auctioneers like myself to other, more profitable businesses. Every so often, though, when I drop back in to check if the prices have recovered, I'll leave a thank-you bomb in the form of a 60g glyph wall. One of my competitors might just buy everything I posted and relist them at the old prices, but whether that happens or not, the number of glyphs sold at 60g will be higher than at 120g, so even if I get undercut in 15 minutes by someone who doesn't return tells (as is the norm on my stupid server), I am more likely to see organic demand (not from my competitors) take both of our stock.
Heavy undercutting isn't the only answer
When does heavy undercutting not work? When the profit margins are slim, there is lots of demand, or the mats are very hard to find in quantity. For example, I don't undercut heavily on certain cut gems because I sell more of them then other cuts at the same undercut settings, and it's a challenge for me to find enough uncut raw gems to keep the market supplied. In fact, I have set my pricing strategy in TSM on some of them to never go below a certain profit margin, even if I get undercut. I'll just wait for the cheaper stock to get bought out. In this situation, I'd be stupid to undercut heavily because I'd constantly be out of stock, or my competition would just buy me out and relist my goods. The characteristics of this market are high profit margins and heavy demand. Another example of a market like this would be BoA enchants, but only when you're using mats that are basically impossible to farm.
I have two modes: heavy undercutting or overcutting. If the demand is so strong that I run out of stock, I stop undercutting altogether and take a smaller percent of the items sold at a higher price. If the competition is fierce (or logs in annoyingly frequently), I'll undercut deeply. The two strategies not in my playbook, however, are AH camping or price matching.
The last refuge of the incompetent
If the only way to get a slice of pie worth playing for is to stay logged in and camp the AH watching for undercuts, find another game. Hell, you'll probably make more money per hour fishing, and at least that gets you out in the world where you can look at all the nice new graphics Cataclysm brought us. Camping the AH feels like it should work because you are always the lowest price, but people don't realize that the most precious commodity in this game is attentive hours at the computer. I can AFK smelt for hours easily, but every hour I sit in front of the AH spamming my cancel and relist key in TSM is an hour I didn't use on trying to set up another business, to level another trade skill, or to find a better supplier ... or, you know, to actually play the game!
In practice, camping is a terrible business practice that makes you far less gold per hour than an actually productive activity. If you don't believe me, time yourself and do the math. See how much more business you actually get when you camp, and compare the profits on that to the profits you would have made without camping. Is that number as good as you thought it was?
Price matching is the other strategy that doesn't work. There's a whitelist on TSM that allows you to match the prices of people on that list instead of applying your normal undercutting strategy on them. Having anyone on this list is a complete waste of time, because it sends you right back to the first situation of camping the AH. The default sorting will show most recent auctions at the same price first, so the last of your little social group to log in and post will make the sale -- at least, until they fix the AH's buying interface and group all identically priced auctions on the same line.
If a friend requests that you add them to your whitelist, go ahead and do it. Friends are more important than this game, but try not to make realID friends with other auctioneers!
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Elwoods Apr 4th 2011 9:19AM
I'm one of those strange shopper in that I dont always buy the cheapest item on offer.
If I'm only buying 1 or 2 of an item and I see someone has undercut by 1c I'll buy the item slightly higher priced.
Why? Because I dont think the undercutter made much of an effort to get my business.
(Note: this for items that could cost a decent amount 50g+)
Knob Apr 4th 2011 9:43AM
You're not hurting anyone but yourself by doing that. You're just spending more gold on something when someone else will invariably come along and buy the 1c undercut item. If you think it'll teach a lesson to those who undercut by 1c to not do so because you didn't buy the item, you're in for a surprise.
Abbadon Apr 4th 2011 9:51AM
But wait...! Generally (but not always) there's a long string of undercutters... So if an item you want on the AH has the following prices:
74g99s
75g
75g1s
75g2s
75g87s
76g13s
80g
Which do you buy? The six lowest prices all undercut with minimal effort (IMO).
I somewhat understand your point, but I'm a copper pinching goblin... When I buy, I usually don't even pay attention to the sellers' names and just buy out the absolute cheapest. A copper saved is a copper earned!
However, If I notice a friend or guildie selling something, and they were undercut by some minimal amount, I'll buy their auction to support them over their competition.
Big Shoe Apr 4th 2011 10:07AM
I'll always buy the "round figure" item rather then the 1c (or 1g) undercut. I don't care about the trivial amount of gold -- it's a matter of principle. I have no illusions about "trying to teach anyone a lesson." They don't know how much I paid for the item... but I do, and that what counts.
gamerunknown Apr 4th 2011 10:15AM
If the undercutter is trying to kick someone off of the market by tracking a competitors posts and undercutting them all by a small amount, then he may be foiled by those willing to pay a slightly higher amount unless he has an infinite supply to post.
Sky Apr 4th 2011 10:26AM
I really don't get why people disdain undercutting so much. If this was happening in the real world, people would rejoice. Undercutting encourages competition resulting in lower prices and ultimately more purchasing power for the consumer. I know I'd rather have undercutting than price fixing thats for sure.
When I buy something off the AH, I buy the lowest priced item. Just as someone else above pointed out, even if you don't buy the lowest priced item, someone else will and your whole "teach them a lesson" thing is all for naught.
When I sell on the AH, I also undercut by about 4-8% depending on the market. If there are bank alts camping the AH then I will just let them undercut each other before I swoop in, buy all their supply and resell it at a higher price.
Artificial Apr 4th 2011 1:24PM
"I really don't get why people disdain undercutting so much."
No one disdains actual undercutting. Everyone's happy to buy at a cheaper price. What people disdain is the "fake" undercutting where someone lists something for 75g so you list for 74g99s99c. Whoohoo... one whole copper off. That's not undercutting. That's listing for the same price but using a cheap trick to move your item ahead of someone else's. Expect that to just piss a lot of buyers off.
"You're not hurting anyone but yourself by doing that."
Oh yeah... I'm overpaying by one who copper piece. I'm *really* hurting myself... /eyeroll
Scard Apr 4th 2011 2:03PM
"I really don't get why people disdain undercutting so much. If this was happening in the real world, people would rejoice."
This is why people love Wal-Mart.
Erik Apr 4th 2011 2:36PM
It's also why people hate Wal-Mart, so it pretty much sums up everyone's emotional reactions to economic problems. :)
Steve Apr 4th 2011 2:40PM
Well I undercut by 1c only. It's not so much that I'm lazy, it's more so that I want to make the least amount of impact on the prices themselves. When people start undercutting in big chunks, when the item can easily easily sell for higher profits, that's the stupid thing to do.
Ragen Apr 4th 2011 6:19PM
This is why I sometimes use deep, painful cuts to support my selling. Cutting by one copper/silver/gold only results in the AH PvP dragging out for more time than it's worth for either party. Like Mr. Berntsen points out: Camping for hours never balances out; which is exactly what you sometimes need to play the one copper game.
I am however thankful when someone undercuts me by a copper, as it shows I now have a new playmate. Which means I have more reason to log in once every 1-3 hours for 15 minutes to drain more of their resources for random amounts of gold.
As for the topic directly: Save your undercutting for serious gains. If you calculate you margin (as you should), you will know exactly how much undercutting room you have before you start to come out even.
Baba Apr 4th 2011 9:21AM
When cataclysm came out I was one of the few people that just farmed ore solidly, I went from 80-81 purely from mining.
I made a killing from 1 copper undercuts, and when the profits decreased I turned to Blacksmithing and started selling epics & Ebonsteel buckles. It staggered me how people were destroying their profit margins in a frenzy to sell these products which were in such high demand anyway.. maybe my server just has more noobs on it than most.
ssutton3 Apr 4th 2011 9:28AM
I agree with your position on price matching but I think your comment regarding AH camping is based on a false assumption.
Sure, if a player is just sitting at his computer camping the AH instead of doing other in-game things, then yes, I can see this being a failure for him.
I've found many of the campers out there are playing at work where they can Alt+tab over to the game when they have a few minutes. For these players, camping is just the way they stay connected during their work day.
As far as undercutting goes, I'm just not a fan of reducing profits. I like to maximize my profit on every sale if possible. That said, I do recognize the AH PvP nature of the game--posting a wall of glyphs at just above the burn rate might be a viable strategy from time to time.
For bags or bars or scrolls or other items I sell, I'm much more inclined to undercut by a few silver than to deep undercut--if I can sell a scroll at 150g and my competition is at 155g, why would I want to post it at 80g? I just cost myself 70g for no good reason.
Parrin Apr 4th 2011 9:35AM
Agreed. Basil appears to be making the assumption that AH campers are doing this on their computer at home. AH Elite makes camping the most profitable activity from your mobile device.
Sky Apr 4th 2011 10:31AM
It doesn't matter whether the camper is doing it at his work computer or smartphone. I think Basil was referring to the time being used up and how it could be better used. And when he says campers, he doesn't mean the people who check the AH every hour, he's referring to the people who will undercut you 2 minutes after you list an item.
Dusky Apr 4th 2011 10:36AM
Agreed on the deep undercutting. On items that don't sell that quickly, deep undercutting is kinda silly. Someone has it at 120, why bother dropping it to 60g?
Also, AH campers aren't always sitting there on the edge of their seat, constantly scanning to see if they're undercut. I know when I'm doing my deep AHing, I spend maybe 5 minutes per hour actually at my seat for more than a few seconds. I'm reading a book, up moving laundry through the washer and dryer, fixing lunch or dinner, walking the dog, etc. Just because my toon is sitting there doesn't mean I'm actually at the keys 100% of the time.
Cephas Apr 4th 2011 10:53AM
Deep undercutting does not mean cutting profits. The idea is that you want to sell more units at a lower profit margin. The increase in volume should more than offset the decrease in profit margin to give you an overall increase in profit. (if you're doing it right)
If you try to increase supply without decreasing profit margin it just doesn't work. You end up with a surplus, i.e. not all of your stuff will sell, and you don't make any profit on stuff that doesn't sell.
quickshiv Apr 4th 2011 5:11PM
I think the biggest false assumption Basil is making about AH camping is that the camper is a person.
eMaRDi Apr 4th 2011 9:41AM
Auctioneers Undercut Function is all I need the most time. I'll just wait until something is "Competition above market" or "No competition". While the later thing is usually dangerous for obscure items, I _never_ undercut.
It is just an attitude, but on our server you have usually a bracket of about a day before someone floods the AH with similar items. Personally I think there are some intelligent scripts on work which detect when something is actually selling. Thus I usually put some cut gems into the AH as soon as competition is skyrocketing and sell my stuff. I'll know that this particular gem won't be sold for at least some hours until the market stabilizes again.
Sounds weird but it seems like this on my server. During Wrath I undercutted Titansteel and believe me, that prices went down every day.
On the other heand I really love guys putting ore into AH for dumping prices. Something my jewelcrafter might chew on.
Abbadon Apr 4th 2011 9:42AM
I don't outright camp, not like some of my competitors at least, but I do generally repost 3-4 times a day. I've outlasted a lot of sellers, but that doesn't mean much as for every seller that fades away, two new, go-getters pop up in his place.
I work from home. So randomly throughout the day, I'll repost. I don't actively monitor my competition and repost the moment they log off. Sometimes I do if I have the time, but again, I don't really pursue this method. But I see one of my competitors doing this right now... He logs, I repost, I log and go back to another toon, and he comes back to undercut me. I've done that in the past, where 2 of us would be online and just constantly undercut each other for over an hour back and forth... It's not much fun.
I repost as often as I do because I can. It's easy to hit a button while still performing work on the side. Whereas, it's more difficult to do dailies, run a heroic, etc while trying to read or participate on a call...
But I can verify Basil's statement in regards to money earned/time invested, less posting is just as successful as constant reposting. I had to travel recently and work from an office. I changed my selling pattern to twice a day. I'd post in the morning before work and again at night before bed. Even with this minimal time investment, I was bringing in 3-5k a day. (Whereas a usual day of several reposts brings in 5-8k).
I've cut back from how bad I used to be about reposting, but I still like to do it a few times a day to keep the competition on their toes.