Blizzard responds to feral druid Savage Defense concerns

There are two issues here.
One is that the combat log is saying "refresh" in a confusing way when it's really just applying damage to the shield (i.e. a new shield has not been created). We're looking at some ways that might be fixed.
The second issue has to do with our combat log (or third party logs) apparently disagreeing about what happened. Remember, our combat calculations are done on the realm side and then reported to the client, but the client only gets those reports periodically. The message has to travel a potentially long distance between your client and our realms. It's important that the calculations are done realm-side though, to maintain gameplay integrity.
Because of the latency inherent in client – realm communication, it can appear that a hit lands before the shield procs, yet still applies to the shield, leading to the mistaken impression that the proc isn't occurring properly. In reality, the server is (probably) performing the steps correctly, but the client sometimes lags behind. For example, there's a case where what actually happened is this sequence: 1) shield proc, 2) hit, 3) absorb, but the client is slightly behind and instead (incorrectly) shows 1) hit, 2) shield proc, 3) absorb in the combat log. Or it could appear that you lost shield points without actually taking less damage, when in reality either the shield or your health pool weren't affected. Or it could appear that if you take multiple hits nearly simultaneously that the shield did nothing to the later hits, but in reality the shield was gone on the first hit and your client just hasn't been notified of that fact yet. We will investigate this issue just to make sure, but we're pretty confident that Savage Defense and Blood Shield are working correctly and are just sometimes getting misreported. With Savage Defense lasting longer in 4.1, you may see this kind of thing more often.
The takeaway is that latency can in some cases cause combat log display issues like the one we're seeing here. We understand that a lot of you use the combat log as a reporting tool to analyze a fight after the fight has concluded. The combat log as currently implemented is supposed to give you a data feed in real time. We'd like to redesign the combat log to fill that post-combat analysis role better (as Ghostcrawler alluded to in a recent Q&A) but that is a Very Big Task. Just delaying the current combat log so that it was in 100% parity with the server could cause serious issues with third party mods among other things, so we have to be careful not to turn a single screw and end up dismantling the whole machine, so to speak. Despite its limitations, it remains an accurate and useful tool in the vast majority of circumstances.
One is that the combat log is saying "refresh" in a confusing way when it's really just applying damage to the shield (i.e. a new shield has not been created). We're looking at some ways that might be fixed.
The second issue has to do with our combat log (or third party logs) apparently disagreeing about what happened. Remember, our combat calculations are done on the realm side and then reported to the client, but the client only gets those reports periodically. The message has to travel a potentially long distance between your client and our realms. It's important that the calculations are done realm-side though, to maintain gameplay integrity.
Because of the latency inherent in client – realm communication, it can appear that a hit lands before the shield procs, yet still applies to the shield, leading to the mistaken impression that the proc isn't occurring properly. In reality, the server is (probably) performing the steps correctly, but the client sometimes lags behind. For example, there's a case where what actually happened is this sequence: 1) shield proc, 2) hit, 3) absorb, but the client is slightly behind and instead (incorrectly) shows 1) hit, 2) shield proc, 3) absorb in the combat log. Or it could appear that you lost shield points without actually taking less damage, when in reality either the shield or your health pool weren't affected. Or it could appear that if you take multiple hits nearly simultaneously that the shield did nothing to the later hits, but in reality the shield was gone on the first hit and your client just hasn't been notified of that fact yet. We will investigate this issue just to make sure, but we're pretty confident that Savage Defense and Blood Shield are working correctly and are just sometimes getting misreported. With Savage Defense lasting longer in 4.1, you may see this kind of thing more often.
The takeaway is that latency can in some cases cause combat log display issues like the one we're seeing here. We understand that a lot of you use the combat log as a reporting tool to analyze a fight after the fight has concluded. The combat log as currently implemented is supposed to give you a data feed in real time. We'd like to redesign the combat log to fill that post-combat analysis role better (as Ghostcrawler alluded to in a recent Q&A) but that is a Very Big Task. Just delaying the current combat log so that it was in 100% parity with the server could cause serious issues with third party mods among other things, so we have to be careful not to turn a single screw and end up dismantling the whole machine, so to speak. Despite its limitations, it remains an accurate and useful tool in the vast majority of circumstances.
For reference, here is the new implementation of Savage Defense:
Savage Defense has been redesigned slightly. Instead of a single charge absorption, it now places an absorption effect on the druid absorbing up to 35% of the druid's attack power (modified by mastery, if applicable) in damage and lasting 10 seconds. There are no longer any charges on the effect.
Feral tanks have been awaiting a change to Savage Defense for most of Cataclysm, and the new implementation seems like it should fix the issue. While we wait for a fix on the actual ability on the PTR, we should be cautious about jumping to conclusions about whether an ability is going is as implemented -- it is a public test realm, after all. The blue response is detailed enough that Blizzard is assuring us, most likely, that it's an issue it understands internally and is fixing, rather than having to make a statement about a feature not fully implemented on the test realm.
WoW Patch 4.1 is on the PTR, and WoW Insider has all the latest news for you -- from previews of the revamped Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub to new valor point mechanics and new archaeology items.
Filed under: Druid






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Mgssidley Apr 6th 2011 6:03PM
I feel stupid asking this, but, how much AP do druids usually have? I'm trying to get a feel for how much this will be absorbing.
Shrikesnest Apr 6th 2011 6:34PM
It varies really widely due to Vengeance. One of the most brilliant parts of the new Savage Defense is that it will scale to raid encounters very well due to the increased vengeance.
jam Apr 6th 2011 6:05PM
Meh, I wonder when Blizz will address some of the countless Feral Cat issues.
Cat DPS is very low, and with 4.1 changes to other classes and improving gear kitties are going to be the worst dps spec by far.
lazymangaka Apr 6th 2011 6:44PM
They should only do something if they can fix it without re-granting insta-Gladiator to Feral Druids again like a few months ago.
KEFIOX Apr 6th 2011 7:00PM
I completely agree, kitty dps is insanely low compared to the other classes/specs. Every single class has a dps spec above feral on stateofdps.com and some have two, including druids. I don't PvP at all but we aren't viable in either PvE or PvP at this point and Blizzard is just ignoring the feral community like we're the plague.
Twill Apr 6th 2011 8:17PM
How do druids have 2 specs above feral?
Since when was resto pulling 20K+ DPS?
theRaptor Apr 6th 2011 10:58PM
@lazymangaka
They should fix this problem by deleting rated PVP from the game.
Some classes being "insta-gladiators" wasn't a real problems when DK's, warriors, rogues, mages, priests etc could do it for entire expansions but as soon as it was feral druids it was just too much.
/roll eyes.
Seriously, after the nerfs ferals can't break fear, can't break roots, bear self-healing is a joke, and people are still afraid of ferals? I have seen DK self-healing keep pace with full dots now that people actually have resil gear.
Stop being bad.
Fa110u7 Apr 7th 2011 10:51AM
I think the only "problem" with kitty dps is that its actually one of the only classes left that actually takes some skill to play. Yes, usually i can assume that the kitty druids that I get matched to in randoms are going to suck, but I have also been seriously impressed with the amount of dps from kitty druids that know how to play their class.
jam Apr 7th 2011 11:45AM
@Fa110u7
Feral DPS was challenging in Wrath, not so much in Cataclysm.
jam Apr 7th 2011 11:50AM
.. also.. Feral DPS isn't low because it takes skill to play... it's low because kitties suck horribly at the moment.
Go check out some WOL parses, even the best cats are doing very poorly, even on bosses where the mechanics a well suited for them.
With better gear Cats will only fall further behind. With 4.1 skills and ilvl 372 gear cats are the worst dps spec (yes, even behind specs like frostmage or sub rogue). With Firelands gear (4.2) things will be even worse, due to poor scaling.
hugatree Apr 6th 2011 6:16PM
I think on boss fights I can get to 35kish.
Jabouty Apr 6th 2011 7:06PM
AP can fluctuate enormously as Vengeance stacks are gained or lost.
Based on my average AP of ~30,000 (give or take due to Vengeance stacks) that gives an average absorb of roughly 10,500 health. Obviously as gear increases our AP gets better and thus this number gains accordingly. Even so, an avoid of 10k is nothing to snort at.
Kal Apr 6th 2011 7:38PM
Yeah, this still worries me.
While SD scales with vengeance, bears already routinely hit that cap and shield tanks are already outblocking bears. Looking forward this will only be more troublesome.
That being said, there's no reasonable expectation that the above is not an actual bug. This has been an issue with SD, and further testing has shown that the damage is not being absorbed properly; if you do a perfect 'death time' test and look at the logs you end up dying sooner than you would otherwise expect, meaning that not only are the logs inaccurate, they're inaccurate AND you're actually being hit for more. Testing in that threat shows this.
Manadar Apr 6th 2011 7:53PM
Don't forget mastery. I get an additional 75% effect which should make my shield absorb 110% of my AP. As for anyone thinking this is op, go check what a warrior block for on heroic bosses, and remember they can double that with critical block.
Ankh Apr 6th 2011 10:34PM
@Manadar. I think you got the 75% effect wrong. The 35% AP for SD is the base absorb you get without any mastery. The 75% you see in the tooltip is the base SD plus what every mastery you have. There is no 75+35 =110% of AP for SD here :D
Eldoron Apr 6th 2011 8:11PM
How about fixing some classes' DPS?
Josh Apr 7th 2011 5:56PM
Would this make the value of mastery go up for feral tanks?
Mort Apr 7th 2011 6:18PM
Yes, but not by an amount significant enough to push mastery above dodge for bears. However, there will be less of a penalty for those that use mastery reforged pieces for both tanking and DPSing.