Encrypted Text: Dissecting rogue stats

Do you remember when armor penetration was all the rage? While combat rogues lusted after all the ArP as they could get their hands on, the other physical DPS classes shared the same desire. I forgave all of the feral druids who asked for the leather gear with armor penetration on it; I know we have to share the agility-based leather gear with our furry friends. I didn't put my foot down until hunters, warriors, and even death knights started rolling on our stuff. While having such a powerful stat allowed us to scale competitively, it also created a massive amount of gear competition.
Blizzard's developers decided to end armor penetration's reign as the top stat and actually named a successor to the throne -- agility. Agility is now a rogue's best stat, and since it's always on our gear, we never have to worry about whether we'll see it or not. The plate DPS classes now only want strength, and so our precious leather is safe from their clutches. The stat redesign also shifted the balance of power between the other secondary stats, and we saw several stat functions changed as well.
Critical strike is nobody's favorite
If you've been following any rogue resource, you know that critical strike rating is the worst stat for every talent spec in PvE. Assassination used to enjoy bonus energy via Focused Attacks when crits landed, but that talent is no more. Combat had a similar crit-strengthening talent in Prey on the Weak, but PotW is also missing in Cataclysm.
It's not that critical strike rating doesn't increase our damage, because it clearly does, but it's simply not worth the investment. We're playing in a world where a simple DPS increase isn't enough, where we can pick and choose only the best stats. The upside of crit is that by having one stat that's clearly the worst, it makes many of our reforging decisions very easy.
Mastery reinforces spec stereotypes
While assassination and combat haven't really ever had identical stat valuations, mastery rating tweaks our damage makeup and pushes them further apart. Assassination's mastery bonus increases its poison damage, which makes stats that also boost poison damage incredibly valuable. Combat's mastery bonus increases its physical damage, which promotes physical stats over the others.
The synergy that's seen between mastery and the other stats simply reinforces the stereotypes of Mutilate's heavy poison damage and combat's primarily physical damage. That's actually one of the purposes of mastery: to create noticeable differentiation between specs.
Expertise is the ultimate boost to physical damage
Expertise rating reduces our opponents' chance to dodge or parry our attacks, which makes it great for boosting the number of white swings that land. Combat, which favors physical damage and white swings, obviously loves expertise. A combat rogue needs for as many of his swings to land as possible to generate Main Gauche and Combat Potency procs, specifically because they're percentage-based procs.
Assassination, on the other hand, couldn't really care less about expertise. One key reason is that a Mutilate rogue's key finisher is Envenom, and Envenom actually still grants you the poison buff even when it fails to land. Between Envenom's indifference to dodges and assassination's reliance on poison damage, expertise simply fails to be a good stat.
Hit rating is universally loved
Hit rating increases both our chance to hit with both physical attacks and spells (which poisons are considered to be), making it valuable for both specs. Every rogue wants to reach the basic yellow hit cap, as we need for our special attacks to land in order to maintain a rotation reliably. Even after that point, both combat and mutilate value reaching the spell hit cap quite a bit, which is why it's such an easy stat to love. The only issue is that hit rating has almost no value past the spell hit cap, and since we can easily reach that golden 17% hit chance between Precision and current gear, it's not always in demand.
Why haste is twice as effective
Back in the day, haste's purpose was to increase the number of white attacks a rogue could perform. While Focused Attacks and Combat Potency allowed for haste to boost our energy regeneration, it wasn't the primary function. Haste now directly increases our energy regeneration, allowing it to boost both our yellow and white damage. It's valuable to both combat and assassination due to its dual-nature, which makes it universally valuable. By having a few stats that one spec prefers and a few stats that both specs love, gear decisions can become more interesting than simply stacking armor penetration.
I've seen a few rogues talking about a "cap" on haste, even though there's no such thing. While stacking haste and using Adrenaline Rush during Bloodlust might have you generating more energy than you can spend, there are ways to avoid this situation. Staggering Adrenaline Rush to ensure that it doesn't intersect with Bloodlust is one technique, while ensuring that we don't use Killing Spree while at nearly full energy is another.
No matter how much haste you stack, you simply can't get enough to passively cap your energy regeneration. Haste doesn't have any diminishing returns, either, and we can always feel safe adding more to our gear. If you're running into a situation where you have too much energy, you should find a way to adjust your playstyle to account for that energy surplus. Reforging out of haste to lower your energy regeneration isn't fixing the problem and causes another by lowering your overall DPS potential.
Hit the caps, then stack mastery and haste
Only hit and expertise are considered to be stats with caps, and it's because of a boss' chance to dodge, parry, or be missed by an attack. We're left with mastery and haste as the stats that scale out forever. Critical strike rating actually does have a cap, as we experienced in Icecrown Citadel gear, but since it's so bad, we won't be stacking it enough to reach that cap any time soon. Assassination rogues start stacking haste and mastery as soon as their spell hit cap is reached, while combat does the same after reaching the expertise cap.
The progression of capping the basic stats of hit and expertise and then pushing for the infinite stats has been happening forever, and that should stay the same throughout the rest of Cataclysm.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
jishdefish Apr 6th 2011 1:12PM
Great article. Reforging is really a life saver for hitting expertise or hit cap. XD
MusedMoose Apr 6th 2011 7:52PM
Seconding on the 'great article' part, and definitely adding my thanks. I'm terrible with figuring out what stats are best (aside from hit, that's always a no-brainer), so knowing that it's as simple as hitting two caps and maxing out two other stats is a huge relief. Thank you very much for this, Mr. Christian.
Sally Bowls Apr 6th 2011 1:30PM
My rogue is still 80 but his time is coming. I enjoyed my Mut/Prep spec so Bliz had to remove it. IDK what to try to level and what to try in unrated BGs.
Can I assume from this article is that PvE sub is really as bad as they say since it was not mentioned?
Sagacyte Apr 6th 2011 1:42PM
I read somewhere that is wasn't that Sub was "bad", but that it was so complicated to mantain a good rotation that most people were just sticking to traditional Assassination/Combat.
Tinwhisker Apr 6th 2011 2:18PM
Sub isn't "bad". Yes, it's potential DPS is behind the other two but not by an amount that makes in unviable for PvE. The thing about Sub though is that the rotation and other variables involved makes it damn near impossible to pull off with any degree of consistency. Add to this that if your rotation gets smacked down in Assassination or Combat, you can recover in short order but with Sub it's like when you get a battle rez (ie feeling generally as weak as a newborn).
Hail Apr 6th 2011 2:31PM
The rotation for sub isn't all that hard for straight-forward fights like Argolath (staying behind him the whole time), assuming you are hit and expertise capped and have a decent amount of haste. In fact, I generally top the dps as sub in BH. The problem with sub arises from the fact that very few fights have 100% uptime on the boss. If rupture falls off, you take a huge hit in dps. Similarly, CDs are required to maintain good dps, which are optimally used with lots of time on recup/ShD (and rupture must be up).
Cephas Apr 6th 2011 2:56PM
PvE Sub is much better than it used to be, but it's still clearly less DPS than the other two, so not a whole lot of theorycrafting has been done on it. The general attitude seems to be "Why bother optimizing if we already know it's sub-optimal"?
If you really want to see some Sub theorycrafting they do have some at ej: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t110016-cataclysm_raiding_faq_updated_2_8_11_a/
Cyno01 Apr 6th 2011 3:00PM
Sub is difficult, but not too bad for an experienced player. You work shadow dance into your rotation or save it for times when you need burst, but if your rotation drops off its not THAT bad to pop Vanish, prep and another ambush is an instant 5cps to get things rolling again.
I've found that IceHud, configured for energy, CPs, Recuperate, SnD and Rupture is a HUGE help in making a quick decision with which finisher to use. SnD occasionally drops off, but its actually our last priority, as long as you dont let rupture drop off and keep recup up youre gold. I go back and fourth on the meters depending on the fight with the assassination rogue in my raid with slightly lower gear than me.
Fights like magmaw its no contast, synapse springs and shadow dance during the head phase makes for some fantastic damage.
Since Chase refuses to mention it ever, the stat weights for Sub are even simpler. After agi of course, hit to poison cap, then expertise to softcap (if an eviscerate gets dodged and rupture falls off it screws up your rotation pretty bad). After that, reforge everything you can to haste. Energy generation is the #1 concern for sub, even with recuperate up all the time, you still want to stack as much haste as possible. Mastery isnt great, but i believe its getting a slight buff in 4.1, but will still be well behind haste. And crit is as bad for us as everyone else.
Xeph Apr 6th 2011 3:06PM
Before I quit WoW, I was PvEing on my sub rogue and while the damage is decent enough, like others have said, it was the rotation that makes sub so rare in PvE. Most people don't want to deal with so much trouble when they can play a different class/spec and do more DPS with an easier rotation.
The rotation for sub is quite similar to a feral druid's pre-3.3.3 (when the Mangle debuff only lasted 12seconds), though it's more clunky and also very punishing. It's not so bad when you get used to it, but you're still keeping a close eyes on your buffs/debuffs on top of your position, the boss' moves, and any AoE or mechanics you need to deal with.
Plus if you mess up or get hit with a lag spike, you have to start your rotation all over again. But while the sustained DPS of a sub rogue is somewhat lacking, they do have crazy burst. Part of sub's DPS problem actually stems from the lack of good DPS outside their burst phase, but Blizzard seems reluctant to do anything about it due to PvP.
All in all, I think sub is a fine spec to PvE with provided you like complex and punishing rotations. Probably wouldn't want to use it on progression content, but in other places it's fun to use.
Xeph Apr 6th 2011 3:12PM
@Cyno01; I though a sub rogue didn't need to worry about the poison hit-cap due to not relying all that heavily on poisons? Granted it could have changed since last I looked it up, but I recall capping special attacks was priority and capping white attacks was important (though less so than expertise cap), and poison cap was something that you should only go for if you had the gear to support that much hit =/
Hail Apr 6th 2011 3:39PM
To clarify, here is the stat priority for sub:
Agi>Yellow hit (duh)>Expertise (in practice, you need eviscerates to go off)>Haste (Energy regen mostly, also yay for autoattacks)>Crit (backstab crits give energy and are buffed via talent, BS makes up the majority of damage)>spell hit>mastery/white hit.
Also one of the above commenters said SnD has the lowest finisher priority. This is wrong, it is actually the highest. There is a sub guide on the EJ forums (this is based on simulations, hence they don't suggest expertise cap). I also made one myself, stickied on the official rogue forums.
thebitterfig Apr 6th 2011 6:45PM
Presuming you don't need a particular spec for the raid buffs, sub has two major advantages over the other specs. The first is survival. A sub spec can be tweaked to take Enveloping Shadows which reduces all AoE damage taken by 30%, as well as reduce the cooldown on Feint. Combined with the dps-increase-for-sub-only Recuperate, the encounter-specific survival benefits can allow sub rogues to mostly ignore some mechanics and maintain dps when other rogues would likely need more time off target. The second is mobility. Depending on fight mechanics, Shadowstep can provide a huge dps boost as it will greatly increase time on the target. Again, it will depend on the fight.
The major disadvantages of sub are rotational complexity (which practice can compensate for), the positional requirement of Backstab, and BY FAR the AE or cleave damage of any rogue spec.
It shares roughly the same stat priority as Combat, and simply switching to a 1.8 speed MH dagger from a Combat MH is all you need to do statwise, unlike an optimized Mutilate set which prioritizes Mastery over Haste.
scherbaddie Apr 10th 2011 11:23PM
@Xeph
"I recall capping special attacks was priority and capping white attacks was important, and poison cap was something that you should only..."
How you gonna cap white attacks without first capping poisons?
Grovinofdarkhour Apr 6th 2011 1:40PM
My rogue hit 85 last night. This article is an absolute godsend, at exactly the right time. My thanks to you, Mr. Christian.
Sagacyte Apr 6th 2011 1:41PM
Nice read.
I'm curious: after reaching the hit cap for an Assassination Rogue, is there an "I should reforge crit/exp to haste instead of mastery" point? I was under the impression that Mastery was always the way to go :/
Another question, if I may: "since we can easily reach that golden 17% hit chance"... how much is that in simple numbers? I'm usually around the 133x number suggested for 2/3 Precision, but I think that's around 15% (can't check right now, Armory's down). Am I missing something?
Thanks for your time, guys.
omgabunny Apr 6th 2011 2:19PM
Try askmrrobot.com
Pantyraider Apr 6th 2011 2:20PM
Load up your character and let it do the work for you... but basically after getting to the poison hit cap reforge to mastery if you can or haste if mastery is not available.
http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/
Sunaseni Apr 6th 2011 2:27PM
For melee hit, it'll be 15% or so at 1332 rating. In SPELL hit (poisons are counted as spells), 1332 translates to a perfect 17%. Any more hit would only benefit melee autoattacks, so isn't worth much if at all.
Cephas Apr 6th 2011 3:07PM
Assassination's mastery bonus is a flat percentage increase to poison damage. There isn't a cap, or even a decay in effectiveness, so no matter how much mastery you have, it's always better than haste. There is no point at which you should reforge crit/exp to haste instead of mastery.
The article only mentions reforging to haste because an item that already has mastery on it can't be reforged to get more mastery. So if you have a piece with crit and mastery, you should reforge the crit into haste.
steve Apr 6th 2011 3:17PM
Shadowcraft > all. Use it to figure out you EP (equivalency to AP values) and then stack whichever stat has the higher value. After caps, its usually Mastery for Assassination and Haste for Combat.