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4-06-2011 @ 9:41PM
Omg! Glad I just leveled my tank
4-07-2011 @ 5:58AM
This is an admission that blizzard failed.The changes that were promoted to improve tanking and healing to make them "more interesting and challenging" was a failure, and actually drove players away.The ratio of tanks/healers/dps is so out of balance now, not only for 5 mans but also for all raiding, and this does nothing to fix the real problems.Revert the changes and find ways to make tanking and healing innately more fun. Not by bribery.You don't fix one bad decision by making another bad decision.
4-07-2011 @ 9:10AM
Huh, nothing for the dps who are stiing in que for 40 minutes patiently waiting for the ques to pop?
4-07-2011 @ 6:43AM
"More interesting and challenging" doesn't mean that more people want to do it.I never tanked before WotLK and even then I just did few normal instances. And what happened? In pugs everyone was telling me I suck. But how else am I supposed to learn tanking? Well... f*** that, I'll just be a dps warrior.
4-07-2011 @ 7:06AM
what this change will do is that it will "bribe" tanks ( i really do not think call to arms will pop up for any other role) to do more than just their daily random. Or in 4.1, after you are able to hit the weekly VP cap, which most tanks will in 2-3 days, they would have just waited for the rest without bothering to do randoms. I had planned something very similar on my tank/heals. Then, queue times in the later part of the week would be ridiculous. This is a measure that will hopefully negate that impact.So, @ahac, you can stay dps without running into 2 hour queue times as the weekend approaches.
4-07-2011 @ 7:13AM
Tanking in LFD is pretty much hell right now (for me), esp solo tanking. About the only reason i would tank is for guildies. Chief issues are: 1) Tanks have *way* more responsibility, 2) Tanking requires more skill than dps (especially when the dps f- it up.) 3) There is no meaningful reward once you have ilvl346. VP is too small to be useful. 4) Everyone expects well geared tanks, but if you don't raid, you are pretty much stuck. So yeah i dont think this is enough. Its a very interesting concept though, and it follows a trend of addressing issues that occur because the community is not able to police itself any more. (vote kick is the biggie). But really, the issue is with LFD in itself leading to anonymity, and the vote kick abuse that goes on nearly every dungeon. Sadly I do not know of any real solution that blizz can offer. Still, this seems exciting.
4-07-2011 @ 7:21AM
The way to increase the number of tanks and healers is not to bribe them with trinkets and such. The way to increase the number of tanks and healers is to make people WANT to play them because they are fun. As it stands today, it is not fun to play either. Just stressful...and completely unforgiving. When Blizzard decided to make tanking and healing "more interesting and challenging", they took the two roles that were already difficult enough and made them even harder. I have put away both my tank and healer and switched to DPS because I only have a finite amount of time per week to play, with gaps lasting several days between available playing time. If I queue as a tank or healer and then pop into a random, it may have been 3 or 4 days since I last played and I will probably need a few pulls to get back into the "flow" and remember all the little things that I need to do . I know I will never be a great tank or healer but I also don't want to suffer the insults of those in my PUG because I am not perfect. So, I just quit tanking and healing for the easier DPS role. As a tank, If I fail to pick up aggro fast enough, someone in the party probably dies and I get either kicked or griefed. As a DPS, if I only hit 9.5K damage, eh, no one really cares.
4-07-2011 @ 7:23AM
in response to ENOUGH! : that is purely a subjective opinion that you are offering. to counter your point, i think that dpsing is god awful boring and the only thing that offers anything dynamic and exciting is healing, and to a lesser extent tanking. there ARE players who prefer the added responsibility of being in those roles, and i really don't think it comes down to blizzards designs as it does people's personalities.
4-07-2011 @ 7:27AM
Blizzard haven't failed. Blizzard are trying to fix a problem created largely (mostly?) by the player base. I have 3 tanks. Druid, Pally, DK. I do not tank in LFD simply because of the random players you get grouped with. I'm done with their attitude problems, I'm done with DPS who refuse to CC, done with DPS that misdirect to the healer and then pull, trying to blackmail me into pulling faster, done with being yelled at, done with all the negative experiences of playing with a random collection of players through LFD. Yeah I know not all players are like that, and I have had some groups I would love to try convince to server change to my server and join my guild, but 9 times out of ten, the players ruin the experience for me. These rewards won't bribe me to change my mind. While I'm sure this work on some of the tank base (those with the thickest skin most probably), I'm sure I'm not alone in saying "Thanks and due credit for trying Blizz, but you're trying to fix a problem that was never your fault to begin with"
4-07-2011 @ 7:35AM
People will probably downrate me for this, but hey, thats ok I guess. This is in response to the comments of both Enough! and ahac.I think claiming its Blizz's fault that not enough healers and tanks are queueing is a very one-sided statement, and I disagree that the mechanics are to blame, really. Sure, maybe some tanks/healers are bored, but then again, wouldnt they still queue if it was easy enough to be bored?I used to tank myself, but I quit after several LFDs, and this is in response to ahacs post. The amount of abuse you have to put up as a tank can be ridiculous. From the ever-so-popular "gogogo!" when youre trying to pull carefully instead of just rushing in, leaving it to the healer to outheal everything, to the nasty comments on the SLIGHTEST mistake, its discouraging, and it made me stop healing.Example? One instance, I had a rogue next to me. He apparently had queued with his buddy. I was tanking with my warrior, attacked the first mob, and before I even had a CHANCE to build enough aggro, he had unloaded his whole arsenal onto the mob without using TotT. Result? He died. This happened twice, even though I asked him to hold back a sec or use his TotT. And suddenly,I saw the loading screen...kicked. That was a true motivation-booster for sure. And if you now go "You prolly fail at tanking" (which leads me to the question whether a lot of DPSers who think win=max DPS, no matter what, are doing it right either), I heard this from several other tanks I talked to. Sure, its not easy to go "Haha, Blizz fail", but seriously, after tanking a LOT on different chars, and seeing so many people deathgripping extra adds, people not even caring to use their AOE carefully, then blaming any death or wipe onto the tank or healer, I am totally not surprised a lot of pallies, warriors and DKs spec retri, fury or frost and give up tanking. It CAN be fun, but a lot of people are sick of the attitude, so we shouldnt forget to factor THAT in with the whole thing. And no, I am not a blizz fanboy, I dislike a lot of their decisions, but speaking from experience, its not entirely their fault, so no one should just point fingers at them when so many tanks cringe just thinking of the PUGs they dealt with
4-07-2011 @ 7:45AM
The only reason it isn't fun is because a good majority of dos are morons and want runs to like they did at the end of wrath. I tank with a pally and a dk and lately have just been dos because I get tired of the GO GO GO! douchebaggery and people not willing to wait for marks or follow them, I get tired of kicking shammys and boomkins that knock stuff back repeatedly after being asked not to, people pulling because i am letting the healer get mana and so on. There is no way blizzard can fix the people and since everyone I know got sick of cata and quit, until I take the time to find a new guild (on dark iron us) I am stuck in lfd. This is probably. Enough to get me back to tanking for a time anyway...
4-07-2011 @ 7:57AM
Enough, you seriously think pre-Cata tanking/healing was more fun? The only reason it's stressful in Cata is because of the dungeon tuning - has nothing to do with class changes. o_O
4-07-2011 @ 8:40AM
The role of tanking IS less fun. Sorry, but every heroic has a gateway boss. You can't get past this boss and he's a complete pain. The mechanics of these bosses tend to be designed to murder tanks and any lag spike in these fights is a wipe.Try running Ozruk when you get a lag spike as he paralyzes everyone as a tank sometime.Whoops, instagib. That fight has almost no tolerance even post nerf.I can point to a few more instances like this, but the important part is coming up.They have said repeatedly pets and mounts are not meant to be anything important in the game. So, they are trying to bribe tanks to show up with...? Nothing important. And the mounts are ones you can farm reliably solo as a tank since before you were 80. I have 2 of the 3 and just never bothered with Deathcharger, it seemed like a waste for such a slight skin change.The pets... not really seeing it. I paid gold and time for most of the pets they will be giving others for free and if they aren't BoE I will be getting a reward that isn't useful.They want tanks to get a real reward? Put in new skins for A'lar, some drakes, proto-drakes, and the chopper from ulduar, along with the frost drakes and invincible's cousing incredible.
4-07-2011 @ 9:14AM
I have an idea on how this could be fixed and remain fun. First make heroic's easier so there are less wipes and problems. Second add an expert level of the dungeons (Tier up from heroics) that cannot be done with the Dunegon finder tool. These expert dungeons would have near raid level loot and maybe a few mount and pet perks, but not offer Valor or Justice points. By not offering Valor or Justice points, you are still having people want to run standard Dungeons using the dungeon finder tool. Also these expert dungeons would need to be a bit harder than the standard current heroics. I think you would keep both the hardcore players and the casual players happy this way.
4-07-2011 @ 9:22AM
@ ENOUGH!I have a submitted a proof that the Dungeon Finder is not broken. I play multiple classes and specs, and have had much success in the dungeon finder. Since I can't solo current level 85 dungeons, one has to assume that other players have enjoyed the same success I have. Therefore I can confidently say the following: the game is not broken. If it was broken, the aforementioned success would not have occurred. If we can then take for granted that the game is not broken, then we can assume that the classes and roles work as the designers intended. And if that's true, then we can safely assume that the most common complaints about the game are "YOUR PROBLEM, NOT BLIZZARD'S:"1-"I can't manage my threat and gain aggro."2-"I can't manage my mana pool."3-"I can't use my crowd control abilities or peel my eyes off my Recount meter."There is a 4th common complaint that players use regarding the current dungeon finder:4-"Other players in the dungeon finder acted like jerks to me."There's two possible responses to this. If the cause of #4 was either 1, 2 or 3, then we again arrive at "YOUR PROBLEM, NOT BLIZZARD'S."If you can honestly say that you were not responsible for 1, 2 or 3 happening, then fine, the other players really were jerks. But if that's the case, we again arrive at "Y.P,N.B." You will encounter many jerks in life, my friend. Learn to deal with it and move on.
4-07-2011 @ 9:36AM
I have two level 85 tanks, a DK and a paladin. Both have ALL of the heroic dungeons from WotLK up to and including HHoR. And I STILL am not going to tank. The issue isn't class balance, it's people expect the tank to be the leader of the group and there are a lot of ignorant people out there. Tanking is hard in Cata, and I can just do other things - leveling a priest and a druid and Pvp'ing. Also, the dungeons are a long time commitment. Eevn with no wipes they are upward of an hour.I would love to tank - but my guildies don't need me to and I'm just not doing any more randoms ("hey noob! Where'd you learn to tank?").
4-07-2011 @ 9:46AM
This is the worst idea ever. All this will do is encourage people whose class can tank (paladins, dks, druids, warriors) to play their tank spec whether they enjoy it or not--- and whether they're good at it or not. Unfortunately, we're not yet at the point in this expansion where bad tanks can successfully tank a dungeon (like we were at the end of Wrath where we all had so much gear it didn't matter).If this really comes to pass, I will absolutely dread doing a random dungeon as anything but a tank myself, since it will be a grab bag whether you get an actual tank or just someone pretending to be for quick queues and extra rewards.
4-07-2011 @ 9:51AM
@ENOUGH!I agree. The LFD tool was great to let people do their thing but it ruined a social aspect of this game and is hasn't returned. This is a band-aid and a badly planned motivational tool that I'm not looking forward to.
4-07-2011 @ 9:52AM
Angus, my point was that the stress has far more to do with dungeon tuning than class changes. You countered my point with...dungeon tuning issues.
4-07-2011 @ 9:53AM
Snuzzle, getting the rewards requires *completing the dungeon as the tank*. People "pretending" to be a tank aren't going to get any rewards.
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