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4-07-2011 @ 9:57AM
I couldn't agree more with the comments from other tanks. I too was a raid tank in Wrath and retired my paladin (arguably the easiest Cata tank class), not because its too hard, or challenging, or even because its not fun. I retired because of the horrible attitude of players in the LFD. I will only tank for guild runs now as well. I second all of the previous posters frustrations. The simple matter is we are all learning mechanics, and a tank miss on a mechanic means everyone wipes. DPS miss on a mechanic means little, sometimes they die, generally not a wipe. I feel for healers as they get a lot of the same problem. Not much call for my Holy/Prot paladin. The game mechanics have changed to the point good solid players generally are not willing to sacrifice and hour or two to deal with the garbage and run guild runs only. Sure there are exceptions but the good players are done with LFD and what is left are mostly irritable soloists who have nothing better to do than make snide remarks and ruin your game play time. You just simply get so much more rewards and gratification doing a guild run. Fixing this isnt as easy as a grab bag.Team work, patience and good character come from your guild or friends list, not from the anonymous random dungeon finder. It worked in wrath because the above 3 traits were not needed to accomplish the task. It simply does not work well now.
4-07-2011 @ 10:01AM
If I may make a counter argument. I agree that tanks get a bad rep for the stupidest of crap; however, I've also known tanks who were absolute gods at holding aggro and staying alive. Tanks who did not need healing from the healer even on heroic fights. Tanks who have solo'ed a solid 40% of a bosses health. These tanks weren't even using the high end raid gear. Tanks who have challenged the DPS to pull aggro and won every time. Tanks who enter a dungeon prepared and actually go after checking the healer has mana. I've even known one to accomplish this all in the same run.So while **** does happen and peoples expectations are skewed. I have seen where these expectations can come from. Your opinions are valid but please remember just because there are a lot of jerky DPS it doesn't mean every tank is bringing their "A" game.That being said I hope the DPS get some kind of reward from this as well.
4-07-2011 @ 10:50AM
News flash: tanking is not for everyone. Duh. If it were, there wouldn't be a shortage.The idea that somehow Blizzard is "obligated" to expend any and all available resources trying to make sure tanking is equally as fun for everybody as DPSing is totally misguided, and indicative of an entitlement mentality.If this is how they want to fix the shortage, it sounds good to me. Let's see how it goes.
4-07-2011 @ 10:57AM
I should have specified that the above was in response to ENOUGH!'s "see look Blizz admits they failed" post.
4-07-2011 @ 11:17AM
@loop_not_definedI know. And that's the problem. Because you and I both know they're going to try. They're going to wipe the group. They're going to spew bile at the healer and probably try to kick the healer (and there's a good chance the kick will succeed. I've seen healers kicked for all kinds of horrible reasons, including one who AFK'd because her kid was crying and the tank ran in and pulled the boss anyway.) Or they're going to throw a tantrum and drop group, leaving the group to slowly dissolve because they don't want to wait for another tank. Or they're going to refuse to leave and get deserter, forcing us to disband unless we want to wipe over and over.Bribes are not the way to get good, solid, well geared tanks. It's the way to attract the "gimme gimme" crowd who thinks tanking is easy and a quick spec hop is all they need to get sweet, sweet rewards.Call me a pessimist, but I already see enough of this going on and the only reward for tanking right now is an instant queue. When you can get extra gold and goodies, it's going to attract the wrong kinds of tanks. It's going to create a lot more unpleasantness in the dungeon finder than there currently is. I really wonder if they thought this through at all.
4-07-2011 @ 12:48PM
I agree with most comments here that attitude is a big problem in LFD groups, and one of the main reasons why tanks/healers don't queue as frequently as DPS. Seriously, folks, what happened to manners and respect, logic and reason, kindness and support? These are the characteristics of quality WoW players, skill really has nothing to do with it. I've run with DPS of all sorts, and the percentage of "gogogo, I want lewtz" players is astounding. Just last night, while healing a random heroic, the hunter in the group was determined to spend as LITTLE time in the instance as possible: pulling trash before the group was ready, MD'ing onto the tank to save his own ass. People like that don't get my heals, and as soon I'm able, I vote-to-kick. It shocks me that common courtesy has gone the way of the dodo, because you would think that in a social, community-focused game, people would be supportive and respectful to everyone else. I for one will continue queuing for heroics, if only to stick it to the douche-bag players who think that they are all that, that they deserve fast loot because they were stuck in a queue for 45 minutes.Now, that's not to say that tanks and healers NEVER act out, because they do. Maybe it's just that the chances are higher for DPS players because there are 3 DPS slots to every LFD group, I don't know for sure. I do know that people need to smarten up and act like human beings again because it would suck if these actions started to make their way into the real-world. More so than they already have, anyway ;)
4-07-2011 @ 1:26PM
My point of view regarding this thread:- This is a good measure. More so if assigning the call to arms is done in an automated way, with completely objective criteria, as it appears to be, because the measure will turn itself off as soon as the role imbalance problem is corrected. But, of course, it's not a definitive way to solve the problem; more work needs to be done to draw players to tanking and healing roles.- Tanking PUGs is a thankless job right now. PUG failure rates seem to be still to high, and the tank gets blamed for almost everything (the healer gets blamed for the rest). This, more than anything else, needs to change: if making the players more forgiving of the tank is not an option, devise a way to measure player skill and bar those that don't attain whichever skill level should be needed for Heroics from queuing for random heroics at all; better success rates, less errors, less blame flung on healers and tanks.- Dungeons have one fairly bad problem: with a few rare exceptions, anyone's failures means the tank dies, either because some attack that should have been interrupted one-shots the tank, or because failing means the group takes more damage, making the healer go OOM and, thus, killing the tank though lack of heals.Instead, dungeons should make the failing player die or, at least, suffer; 10s stun for not avoiding a boss charge, an incurable stacking debuff for standing on the fire, bosses that aim their interruptable skills at DPSers (in special those that have short cooldown, off the GCD interrupts) instead of tanks, and so on. Make the tank and healer suffer less for having fail DPSers on the group, and bad DPSers suffer more. That ought to balance things a bit.
4-07-2011 @ 1:31PM
Loop: if I counter an argument about something with the same argument, I am not arguing, FYI. It's called agreeing and illustrating the point. My big problem with this is that hardcore raiders likely don't give a crap about pets or mounts that aren't raid achievement awards. THOSE I see being shown off. Flasks, meh. Gold, meh. So the incentive for the great tanks is not worth it. Add to the fact that I can't queue with any guildies and I see no reason to go and most tanks won't be willing to waste 30 minutes only to have a wipe end in a disbanded run.
4-07-2011 @ 2:32PM
The amount of comments.Holy S**t!"We had briefly considered Valor Points and epics, but decided that wouldn't be working toward the goal of helping DPS players progress, and ultimately wouldn't keep tanks and healers in the Dungeon Finder system for very long. "Yup. I have a Death Knight, Druid, and Paladin. Tanking on the Paladin and Death Knight is fun and engaging. They have strong threat and a good toolkit. I enjoy tanking on them. The Druid I tanked for short queues, got my gear ready to raid, and stopped.With these changes, Blizz just got 3 more tanks to queue per day. Nicely done. (My Druid is the pet/mount collector.)
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