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4-06-2011 @ 9:44PM
As someone who plays all three roles, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. As Anne Stickney mentions, if you have to offer this much to get a specific role, something must be going wrong...
4-06-2011 @ 9:47PM
Having a Tank, this is deffo needed. The amount of flaming you get as a Tank is just...Even when doing things really well, it is either too fast, too slow, or too....something, thus, a lot of people give up on Tanking.This should encourage people to ignore the comments and just roll with it
4-06-2011 @ 10:36PM
If you ask me, this tank (and healer) shortage is due to a couple things, none of which comes from class/role design, IMO.The biggest thing that keeps me from running dailies on my tank, even moreso than the jackasses I have to deal with, is the fact that heroics are STRESSFUL.They're quite long, they're difficult (even with higher average gear lvls/no CC needed), they often have little room for error, and they can be a crapshoot given the gearlvls/classes you get. That isn't to say any of those things are *necessarily bad*, but they're just not something I want to deal with **on a daily basis**. I'm willing to deal with the stress of long and difficult instances with little room for error when I raid twice a week, but not so much when I'm encouraged to do it everyday. Combine that with the emphasis on the 1-60 as opposed to endgame content compared to other expansions, the linearity of the 80+ zones, and the fact that raiding is not as accessible at this point as it was in Wrath, and you get the current situation. Again, none of those things are necessarily bad, but combined they lead to less replay value and more burnout.
4-06-2011 @ 11:02PM
@N-TrainQFT. All of it.
4-06-2011 @ 11:24PM
The amount of dickery in the dungeon finder for ANY SPEC drives me crazy.As a healer: "zomg only 4k heals? /kick"- keep in mind a healers job is to keep people alive, NOT top charts (and it can be done on 4k heals)As a tank: "zomg cant hold aggro /kick"- this happens from dps who cannot focus on a mob. Occasionally a tank is squishy, but CC can fix this, and again, isnt a term for complaint.As a dps: "Zomg you guys are my slaves since I am tanking and healing for you"- I think this is honestly the worst one. Healers and tanks ALREADY have a sense of entitlement from rapid queues. They have no desire to stick past one wipe.When it comes down to it, ALL classes have issues in the dungeon finder. And yes, I play all three classes. I'm VERY cautious about this new effect from the dungeon finder because DPS, believe it or not, suffer already from ashats just as much as tanks do.
4-07-2011 @ 12:05AM
@Firix: No joke, haven't seen it too much in Cata, probably because I basically refuse to do heroics unless I have at least a couple of guildies with me, but in WOTLK if you God forbid you were in normal gear and trying to do heroics to gear up and queued as a tank you had all the impatient DPS (and healers sometimes) with their damn GO-GO-GO mentality that wanted it over as quickly as possible, which is fine I guess, but then to "help" accomplish this, they would AOE like crazy and not let a tank who is gearing up establish threat and then they'd die and get mad at the tank saying they're a "fail tank" or a "bad tank" or any number of expletives and the like. Because a normal-gear tank should be able to out-threat raid geared DPS right? That pissed me off a lot and so I got to the point where I'd only go on guild runs or queue as DPS and only roll on tank gear if the actual tank didn't, eventually I was geared enough.In Cata, I'm raid geared now, but I did 90% of my heroics in guild groups because of bad attitudes of a large majority of the PUG player base.
4-07-2011 @ 12:11AM
As a newer tank I let people know every time I go into an instance if I know it or not, and that I am newer. I have had more healers drop than anyone else, I am not a GREAT tank, but I usually carry my weight. I always stick with the group, if we die once, I stay, but I ask for advice on what I could have done differently, to make the situation better. Sometimes I get information that could have helped more on the original attempt, and we try again.I have had asses in groups from time to time. As I made it clear at the start of the run that I was new, I don't feel too bad if something happens and people are willing to give constructive critisism, but when people are negative, well I wont re-queue for days or weeks. (I love to play alts) I play this game for fun, the new rewards might reduce the queue times for dps, but if people still don't want to queue as tanks because the "Bribe" to deal with asses isn't always going to be enough. The reality is, if I get into a group with those guys, I will probably still stop, and run maybe 1 or two dungeons a week, and then only when I want to take a break from leveling an alt.I think extra incentives is a nice thought, and even dps will have the ability to get the rewards, (mind you I don't ever see that happening), but it is just a temporary solution to a problem, as there will be a limited amount of items, and once every mount, pet, etc is collected, the incentive is mostly gone.
4-07-2011 @ 5:51AM
Totally agree with you Brett. What they need to do is have another system (not Real ID) where you can place a +/- on someone and it adds that play to say a 100-200 player mini log of some sorts. next time you que up if that person is on and has space in their queue you would go to it if your role was needed. Something to that effect. They have to make some sort of easy way to weed out these weenuses (for lack of a better word) from ruining many players games. LFD has in my opinion began the downward spiral that is taking away the social aspect of the game. Perhaps even a designation "Willing to learn/teach" (like dungeon guide) that will group newer/more patient people together.
4-07-2011 @ 11:55AM
@If you ask me, this tank (and healer) shortage is due to a couple things, none of which comes from class/role design, IMO.It has EVERYTHING to do with class/role/mechanic design.These roles are boring. People don't want to play them. On top of that, Blizzard created a # system that promotes this nonsense.This is a failure of role/encounter mechanics from a company that is stuck inside their box mechanic they created. LFT, LFH.GW2 said the hell with this and it's what most people I know that played WoW are looking forward to. Everyone I know (which is about 10 players in WoW) is just done with this game. They are super excited for GW. They arent for SW because SW is doing the same thing with the holy trinity. GW2 is not.
4-07-2011 @ 3:45PM
@Noyou "Willing to Teach/Learn" sounds like a great idea to me. At this point I've run my main (holy pally) through the heroics enough that there isn't any useful gear that would drop for her, and when I do them I'm mainly in it for the VP. That said, some nights I just want to knock out my daily random and log off, but most times I'm willing to stick with and teach someone who's new to a certain dungeon or role.I've been very hesitant to tank PUGs on my pally for many of the reasons mentioned here, and if I could be reasonably assured of a group of supportive non-asshats by selecting "Learning" then I'd jump right in. As it stands though, I'll stick with guild groups.
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