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by Mathew McCurley 
Apr 11th 2011 at 3:00PM
Bashiok -- Old WoW
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general. Many of us Original Gamers pine for the days of D&D-based yore when games were seemingly intended to break us down into sobbing masses created by an uncaring necromancer of pain and suffering, or at least didn't try to avoid it. Overcoming all of the obstacles (I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).
What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.
What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.
People have been bemoaning the rise and fall of difficulty versus accessibility forever, so it is no surprise that posts like this has come up. Cataclysm has made a good number of improvements to the reputation systems and the number of excellent rewards available to players in many different ways, and it has made accessibility a core value rather than a feature.
Bashiok comes from that era of oppressive gaming. Games were hard, in order to keep you playing as well as to provide a challenge. As technology and gaming philosophy change and the MMO genre evolves, the old, oppressive ways make way for the new challenges of MMO design -- namely, growing and holding on to a dedicated playerbase. WoW still has all of the same goals that you have to work hard for and put a bunch of time and effort into. Raiding is still the endgame and is still difficult; prestige gold items are still available and not in everyone's inventories; and, last time I checked, playing your class to a decent degree was still something to be proud of. Believe me, you don't want to go back to the salad days of difficulty.
WoW Patch 4.1 is on the PTR, and WoW Insider has all the latest news for you -- from previews of the revamped Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub to new valor point mechanics and new archaeology items.
Filed under: Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
Sky Apr 11th 2011 5:59PM
No one is forcing you to put up with the douchebags in the random dungeons. You say you have played 5 years, so I am assuming that during that 5 years you have made a few friends here and there. Why not run a dungeon with them?
With regards to your guild, no one is forcing you to grind rep for your guild. If you're not enjoying yourself then leave the guild and find another one. Get the stuff you want (pets and heirlooms) and leave the guild.
ladygamertn Apr 11th 2011 6:16PM
@Sky
No, I don't have friends that play other than my husband, and he is getting more into Eve. tried Eve but not my thing. I am 56 year old married disabled female and don't enjoy juvenile behavior so I don't endear myself to the young people in the guild. I hate pvp and I don't like pranking. I don't like "anal" humor or whose "epeen" is larger or shoots further. I tend to play late at night when the little angels are in bed. I wish I could find people whose goals are similar to mine but I think they are all playing Farmville. I have abot 25 toons, 8 85's and assorted lower levels. I have every class except shammy, I just don't get that one.
I play alone, but I am not lonely. The Wotlk LFG was great for me. I loved it. I have several Pug pets. Cata is not doing it for me. My DK is soloing low levels instance for fun.
Yes, I have tried other Mmorpgs. I like or rather, liked WoW better. I don't Tweet and I have 16 Facebook friends. I don't want "social" gaming. I am not even that fond of guilds. I did LFG in LK when I wanted to. I do not want to be forced to be social by "playing with friends or guildees."
I am The Gaming Curmudgeon.
Sky Apr 11th 2011 6:38PM
You say you are pretty much a solo player and I hope you don't take this the wrong way so I have to ask: What are you looking to get out of the game?
Obviously to be able to raid you need to coordinate with other people so I'm guessing that is not your goal in this game so that leaves dungeons and questing. Questing in Cata has improved so I guess that if questing was your thing then you would be pleased with what Cata has brought. However, that does not seem to be the case with you since you are saying you are thinking of subscribing so that leaves dungeons.
You say that you can't stand the douchebags in RDF but even you can't deny that these douchebags existed even in Wrath. Speaking from personal experience, I have seen more douchebags in Wrath because the content was so trivial, you could be a complete tool and still finish the dungeon. In Cata, more coordination is required to succeed so people (or at least the people that I've grouped with) are generally less rude. Obviously this will worsen once new tiers are released (I have all 410 epics and you're wearing blues? Herp a derp) but I don't see anything that has drastically changed since Wrath that would hurt your experience
ladygamertn Apr 11th 2011 6:50PM
@ Sky
ok thanks.
vardos Apr 11th 2011 9:11PM
ladygamertn, I completely understand what you are saying and I'd have to say I agree with just about everything you said. Maybe it's the age thing (I'm 47) I don't know, but I get it.
See, I have been playing the game for about the same length of time you have, maybe a little longer but I haven't been in a guild for about 2 1/2 years now. I got sick of all the drama, the people who think this game is more important than real life, etc. Outside of guilds it's even worse, there is the (for the most part) complete unwillingness to help someone new, absolute debased nature in which people speak with on another in this game, the cesspool that is trade chat, etc. I think the rudeness factor of WoW simply has to do with the utter anonymity of the internet. The majority of people who are rude to others would never say such things in real life cause they'd get their teeth knocked down their throat, but in the magical world of swords and dragons its ok, it's even beneficial, to be a complete asshat.
For me, the greatest days of WoW was Kara. I was in a great guild full of friends, we helped one another get geared for, IMHO, the greatest instance in the game and things were fun. Unfortunately that guild, as all guilds eventually do, fell apart and I spent the next year+ looking for a guild, any guild that was even remotely like that guild but after many guilds and even faction and realm changes, I eventually gave up, but at least I had LFG in Wrath so I could see some endgame content. See, in my case, when I became guild-less the part that continued to drive my addiction was the lore of the game, but with Cata the lore is dead because unless I'm in a guild i'll never see the end of the lore story. Leveling a toon to 85 is like buying a 600 page novel and being forced to stop at page 485 cause I can't see any endgame content. With the awful state of pugs in Cata, Blizz has forced me to make a choice, join a guild or not see the lore content that makes me happy.
The sad thing is the only possible guild choice for me, realistically, is some small family guild but blizz has all but destroyed a small guilds ability to see endgame content as well!
The suggestion that makes the most sense to me is, as someone said in these comments, is add two more modes, one a super duper hard mode for the fatally masochistic and two an easier mode for the casual player. However, I doubt that will happen cause with the homogenization of classes, the destruction of PVE specs at the altar of the PVP god, and the very vocal (but IMO minority) elitist players complaining that content is too easy, Blizzard is slowly strangling all the fun out of this game, especially for the casual player.
ladygamertn Apr 11th 2011 9:52PM
@ Brynde & Vardos
Thanks for understanding what I am trying to convey. The guild I am in tried unsccessfully for weeks to get LK down. One magical night in November the run I was in downed The Lich King! We were screaming in Vent! I never expected to see that!! But I have screen shots that I use as my wallpaper because I am just that proud of it.
I will never be a hardcore raider and that's ok. My guild has outpaced me now. I am still trying to see Ulduar stuff...
I hope WoW is a big enough game to allow ALL players to find their niche.
omedon666 Apr 11th 2011 4:09PM
Many of the current "accessibility" issues and difficulty blocks can be solved in the same way my guild is solving them: apply time.
Patches will happen, gear will open up. It's inevitable.
One thing that needs to be remembered, as reinforced by the issues in opening WoW in brazil (I think it was brazil...), is that WoW is in the spotlight, on the hook to be accountably non-addictive. They can't design to "pour your life into it and win" or they will be branded an unhealthy addiction and destroyed by a world that thinks it knows your best interest better than you do (and isn't always wrong).
People on the "well I've leveled 6 toons to 85 and all raid geared, why is my guild still wiping?" train are already playing too much for WoW's current model. You "blew your load" and now you're going to have to sit until your group of friends catches up to you, and then you'll have to wait until the gear access admits your particular group, in a patch or two. If you're playing with friends, this isn't hard. Play with friends. Real friends.
Go outside. Play dragon age. Play something else. WoW can't and won't fill every hour of every day any more, they can't afford to do that and stay accountably non-addictive.
omedon666 Apr 11th 2011 4:16PM
I should also throw in that my above comment was speaking largely to a progression mindset. Those that know how to find enjoyment in the aspects of WoW that WILL take up your time (RPing, archeology, fishing, etc) can have the 24/7 WoW funtime, but the stressful stuff (raiding, harder heroics) has been doled out this way for a reason: raiding isn't meant to be "the thing I do in WoW", it's meant to be a destination, not a journey. People pacing at the destination's wall will be pacing for awhile yet. Now that "the one kill" has taken centre stage over "what we have on farm", that one kill can take its time, as it's a singular event.
pertsev.ivan Apr 11th 2011 4:19PM
A post from that forum:
Blizz, you write posts to explain how well u did with this expansion.
the MAJORITY, that doesnt visit these forums, they have busy lives...sort of. They arent interested in u catering for hardcore players only.
The whole damn reason u have to write blue posts is to say ur doing good. You are writing them because you are failing the majority. People vote with their money.
Sure, elitists are already bored. But they make up the 0.5% of all wow community. Loosing the majority means loosing ur profit.
Stop telling us, the game is fine. Stop giving bribes to under-represented classes. Make em fun to play. Make the whole damn game fun.
Want a real solution instead of rant? Make "Heroic 2" mode. Where the bosses have 1.9Billion health. Damage, Resistances, and healing are reduced by 98.65%
Anyway, dont listen to me. After all, you have been in business a long time. Time to start loosing profit because u turned ur back on majority. When you are bleeding 127,000,000USD a month because everyone left, Think.
talkingmike Apr 11th 2011 4:43PM
And why does this person purport to speak for the majority of the community? He doesn't speak for me, that I can say for sure.
N-train Apr 11th 2011 5:06PM
@talkingmike
As someone who is quite enjoying both tanking and (gasp) healing, I can say he definitely does not speak for me.
Perhaps its only me, but I, like many other people, was quite afraid and nervous about the difficulty of Cata heroics and raids. But then I actually gave them a fair try. Sure, I had some miserable wipes in heroics, some dickish people, some runs that never got past the first boss, but after about a week I was confident enough to pug them, and still do with 9/10 having no problems at all.
Raid bosses were the same. That first night on Magmaw, me and my casual (5 hours max) guild about cried ourselves to sleep after 3 hours of faceroll. The officers had a serious chat about giving up on Cata raiding. Then we gave it another try two weeks later, and managed to get Magmaw and Halfus (we had an easier combo) down in one night. We couldn't believe it. This isn't a "zomgz u guyz suck" post, it's just
While the prevailing opinion seems to be that Cata did everything and then some wrong, I will come forward and say I'm one of the apparently few actually enjoying the game as a whole.
adamjgp Apr 11th 2011 5:08PM
Heh... I do find it funny that most players bitch about Blizzard being 'all about the benjamins', and this gentleman comes and says, 'stop being about the players, and go after the monies'.
I do think that raiding is hard in Cataclysm when compared to WotLK. However, I think it's harder because it's the first tier of raiding, there's only 359 gear from 10s/25s (normal), and the overall required skill level to be successful has gone up.
The game is still accessible to the masses, however with the pure bile and hatred that LFD spews, it's becoming more difficult for the average player to gear up. Not everyone can find a guild to play with. Many guilds have raid schedules, but beyond that, they don't do much (Anecdotally, that's how my guild is).
I really don't want to go back to WotLK days where we just AOE spam everything and click on sparkles. The current model is much better imo in that it takes coordination and teamwork to overcome obstacles.
Summary - I feel that a bunch of the people complaining about 'accessibility' or 'difficulty' just want the faceroll days back, but they won't admit that they want to faceroll. Instead they'll disguise it as something else they can't define, but they still want 'AOE, click sparkles, get purpz'
Sky Apr 11th 2011 6:12PM
I agree with adamjgp that instead of complaining people should suck it up and become better. As with all things in life ,a game should require a certain level of skill and effort to succeed. If someone's talent/effort level is below that threshold, why should the game lower that threshold?
Example 1: In basketball, the goal is 10 foot high. If you're not good enough to play, you either practice to get better or you find another sport to play. What you don't do is ask the other players to lower the goal just so that you can play.
Example 2: In school, you need to have a certain grade in order to pass. If you don't have the marks you either work harder to get a better mark or you fail. If the school lowered the threshold so that everybody could pass, what would happen to our society?
WoW raiding should require a certain level of skill in order to be successful. If someone does not have the required level of skill, he shouldn't be able to succeed until he becomes a better player. I do not get this hand-holding philosophy whereas if someone is unable to do the content, the bar is lowered so that he/she can do it at the detriment of the other players who actually enjoy the challenge.
IvanP91 Apr 11th 2011 8:18PM
Its a game. People play it to get away from the frustration of day-to-day stuff. If the game is going to be hard and complicated, where do people supposed to have fun. Isnt it what games are for?
Those hardcore players, are the ones without work or school. Those who have 10+ hrs per day to spend on a game.
I wanna log on and relax. Not become even more pissed off with a game.
Rolly Apr 11th 2011 4:21PM
"Believe me, you don't want to go back to the salad days of difficulty."
You are not talking about the "salad days difficulty" of WoW. You and Bashiok are talking about games prior to WoW because Cataclysm went back to the salad days of WoW and added stand on one foot while picking your nose and rubbing your head as well mechanics.
aedonix Apr 11th 2011 4:45PM
I think Totalbiscuit is on the right track when he says that WoW needs more than two levels of difficulty for dungeons and raids.
you either have normal, or you have heroic. what the game REALLY eeds is at least 2 more levels for every dungeon. For the sake of naming I will label them "Casual" and Hardcore.
Now I don't think we should ever go back to the welfare gear system that we had in Wrath so "casual" shouldnt be able to earn nearly as much JP (if any) it should just be there for the fun of the run so to speak.
Hardcore should be able to unlock a completely different ;evel of gear than what is currently available from Hard Mode raids. some reward that is exclusive to them.
Of course that will bring about the usual whining and complaining from people, but lets face it... these days EVERYTHING gets that reaction anyway and slowly the comminuty (and i dare say Blizz aswell) are learning to completely ignore those voices. but 2 levels of difficulty is not enough. while it DOES cater to the middle ground of the player base, the hardcore players burn through content and are then faced with nothing to do untill the next content patch comes out, and the casuals have very little chanced of even seeing most content.
jfofla Apr 11th 2011 5:45PM
When you use a term like "welfare gear" I stop reading because nothing you say can possibly be worth the time.
thebl4ckd0g Apr 11th 2011 4:48PM
I've been playing WoW since vanilla BETA. Anybody who says raiding in WoW in Cataclysm is easy compared to what raiding was like in the past either never played WoW before Cataclysm, or is an idiot. plain and simple. Raiding has only gotten harder in Cataclysm, due to the mechanics of the fights. All of the minority hardcore raiders whined and cried and demanded Blizzard make WoW harder for raiding, and well guess what. They caved to your wishes, hardcore raiders. Hope you like it.
The rest of the game outside raiding is indeed really easy, and sometimes I wish it were harder, but sometimes I'm glad it isn't (I'm looking at you, group quests! >:| ).
I'd love to see a nice balance to the raiding - mainly the mechanics to fights being less complicated, but still require a bit of skill to complete.
thebl4ckd0g Apr 11th 2011 4:52PM
Maybe I should redo the words in my post. I don't think Cataclysm is hard - or raiding is hard. Rather the *Encounters* that Blizzard created for WoW are of a difficulty that is in a word - ridiculous. I don't think they are on the scale of hard, moreso on the scale of Blizzard tried to over-complicate them.
radda Apr 11th 2011 4:52PM
One of the biggest problems is the awful queue times for DPS preventing them from getting geared and the lack of geared tanks/healers running through dungeons after getting their daily VP (which the new CtA is supposedly going to address).
My guild tries several times a week and generally fails due to the DPS not having a ton of gear. I'll admit that the heals and tanks could be running DPS through dungeons more often, but it feels like a chore now because I've done them a bazillion times.
The Tier 2 Heroics and CtA incentives should hopefully fix a lot of this though. 4.2 should at least see the 4.0.3 raids getting dealt with handily, especially after T11 gets bumped down to the super easy to get JP.
I've actually been thinking about this for a while now, and I found an answer I'm somewhat comfortable with: give DPS a slight VP and/or JP advantage for their daily/soon to be weekly runs, or allow them to cash in some JP for a little extra VP. Getting DPS geared is such a slog due to how long it takes to get into a dungeon. Tanks and healers already have the advantage of short queue times anyway, so giving DPS a slight boost along with bribing tanks/healers with the goodie bags to (hopefully) shorten queue times may help balance things out a bit and get more people geared and into raids.