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by Mathew McCurley 
Apr 11th 2011 at 3:00PM
Bashiok -- Old WoW
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general. Many of us Original Gamers pine for the days of D&D-based yore when games were seemingly intended to break us down into sobbing masses created by an uncaring necromancer of pain and suffering, or at least didn't try to avoid it. Overcoming all of the obstacles (I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).
What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.
What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.
People have been bemoaning the rise and fall of difficulty versus accessibility forever, so it is no surprise that posts like this has come up. Cataclysm has made a good number of improvements to the reputation systems and the number of excellent rewards available to players in many different ways, and it has made accessibility a core value rather than a feature.
Bashiok comes from that era of oppressive gaming. Games were hard, in order to keep you playing as well as to provide a challenge. As technology and gaming philosophy change and the MMO genre evolves, the old, oppressive ways make way for the new challenges of MMO design -- namely, growing and holding on to a dedicated playerbase. WoW still has all of the same goals that you have to work hard for and put a bunch of time and effort into. Raiding is still the endgame and is still difficult; prestige gold items are still available and not in everyone's inventories; and, last time I checked, playing your class to a decent degree was still something to be proud of. Believe me, you don't want to go back to the salad days of difficulty.
WoW Patch 4.1 is on the PTR, and WoW Insider has all the latest news for you -- from previews of the revamped Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub to new valor point mechanics and new archaeology items.
Filed under: Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 7 of 7)
raiding for all Apr 12th 2011 9:43AM
this is for/about TonyMCS's comments about y there aren't as many raiders around anymo.
my thoughts are, since working WoW from vanilla days, that guilds aren't 'guilds' anymore. let me explain.
guildes are now groups. groups of about 10 or 25 peeps. a guild on the other hand is not only a group of peeps, but also are (or were) a family arrangement for everyone to be taken care of!. quite different from a group. today's groups (guilds, especially those that call themselves 'rading' guilds ) don not have patience to grow, groom, and apprecaite the work it took 40 men raids of aforetime. if they can't do it in a night, they're out. WoTLK made it even worse. now even dungeons must be run w/o waiting for those that need to mana up or anything else. it's go, go, go, all the time. there's no consideration for those that 'at least' show up constantly. if u don't have the latest gear and hottest achievements your not considered. there was a time when we didn't have Recount or movies to 'help'. and therein lies another part of the problem that adds to the impatience factor. sure it has bellowed Blizzards subscriptions, but they will start to dwindle now that people can't stand each other. if u don't do it the way the tank or leader wants (wipes or not) your out. now discussions on how and why the last fight went. at least not to where it edifies each and every individual player and therefore the group. we used to spend more time figuring out how to setup and work a fight than fighting. that's all over. just get in there and go at it; that's the current mentality. like spoiled little brats, that's how today's guilds operate. there's no 'savoring' the game, no talk of the honor or the valor, or the fighting. just what's next! what else can we take down! LET"S GO! Fuck that shit.
i hate it and am seriously thinking of finally giving up WoW for good. i feel Blizzard has allowed this to happen mostly to gain subscriptions. but the peak has been reached and if this is not fixed soon, people might as well just go to FPSs. funny, isn't that's what most lan-parties are about? if this isn't fixed soon WoW will be on the way out too. there's no more 'fun'. just a quick rush and on to the next. the next fight, the next guild, the next patch. in vanilla days it took our guild of 300+ people 4 1/2 months of every Saturday to bring down Ragneros. when that happened the camaraderie was IMMENSE! andthe guild was legendary. people were banging down our doors to get in. not any more. try to find a raiding guild with just 2x as many people as the raid requires and your lucky. ( not socialites either. but people that really want to raid). the problem now is that those who are not in the 'priority' group are left out. nobody in these 'big rush' days wants to forgo his spot to a slightly lesser person. not time for that. patience. patience. PATIENCE!
it's a mess. and TonyMcSs comments prove this. the fun's wearing out, he doesn't even play his big DK anyomre. on to newer things? i think not. it's the same old shit in a different bag.
good luck with that. NOT!
Scooter Apr 12th 2011 10:53AM
Honestly I plowed through heroics at the start of cataclysm. It was difficult but not unbeatable. Of course I had an incredible tank who was hell-bent on raiding asap. Insta-Queue is fun.
At this point, if you want to pug it needs to be done by five people intent on actually playing their class as opposed to killing time. Sadly most are just killing time at this point.
Blizzards mistake here was to go from incredibly easy to requiring actual serious play. Serious play from 5 people. None of this is beyond people to do. It's just they don't want or even feel they should have to. A flat 10-15% damage nerf on all Dungeon and most Raid bosses would bring things in line. Mistakes still equal death however you've eliminated much of the luck factor needed for some bosses
bdavis7389 Apr 12th 2011 11:55AM
You people QQing one way or another, both sides are ridiculous.
AMG guys the dungeons are too hard...
AMG guys the dungeons are not too hard...
Heroics haven't been hard since a select few in BC (hellfire ones with 6+ mob pulls), and you could outgear those easily even as a non raider after the SW patch.
These cata dungeons aren't hard. Yeah they take a while, but that just means more bosses and more chances at gear.
How about some suggestions on how to fix things instead of just complaining about how hard things are or how dumb people are...
-Give players in the dungeon que some sort of peer rating system (downrate those bads)
-Last bosses drop an epic!
-More ilvl346 gear from vendors (for that damn trinket that won't drop)
-Less trash in some dungeons (I feel the amount is really OK right now)
-More justice points per kill or more per dungeon completion
-No limit to justice points (if you let people accrue them they might have time to think)
jbaum311 Apr 12th 2011 12:06PM
For the most part I have enjoyed Cata, and my only complaint is that heroics do seem to run a bit long. Maybe in later patches they could shorten them since people won't need the gear from them as much? Anyone know how long the new ZA and ZG will be? I think that since these new instances will drop better gear than heroics it could help w/ the accessibilty of raids.
Garrgamel Apr 12th 2011 1:19PM
Wrath heroics at the beginning were difficult, albeit not as difficult as BC heroics were. Cata has taken us back to BCish heroics. The problem does lie with what happened in wrath. It was just too easy. They required almost no thought to mechanics or any semblance of teamwork. Cata heroics were never supposed to be easy. They are not entry lvl. I hear that a lot. The avg ilvl needed is the BARE MINIMUM required. I have seen ppl with Pvp gear, melee with intellect/spirit gear, and healers with strength gear because the item lvl is higher. They put that ilvl there so ppl would gear properly and hopefully learn encounters through the Reg dungeons. Apparently that was hoping for too much. Once 4.1 drops things will get a little "easier". Then 4.2 and so on and so forth. Just gonna have to stick it out or quit until ppl can face roll content again which is sad.
Jayjay Apr 12th 2011 3:22PM
I dont mind the heroics being hard - I mind them taking 3 or 4 hours to complete in the RFD. I don't *have* (nor do I desire) 3 or 4 hours to do just one thing in my game of choice - I want to log on and do MANY things (or at least, more than one).
Roy Apr 13th 2011 2:19PM
OK, they just need to make "hardmode" realms - and "normal" realms. hardmode realms would attract fellow masochists and weed out the "casuals".
"Normal" realms is where most of the playerbase goes and enjoys some easier rewards on less time to play.
To make it best, certain achievements must be obtained through play on a "normal" realm in order to unlock a "hardmode" realm. This way, only those who really like a challenge will actually be in those realms.
Tempezzt Apr 13th 2011 9:22PM
..best reply so far...
Artemisian Apr 15th 2011 3:26AM
I have to say, I don't understand a lot of the complaints about heroics that people make. I'm not a hardcore player - I started playing at the tail-end of BC, have never really done hard-mode raiding, only normals, and don't have lots of maxed-out alts or anything. And yet with a bit of experience and reading I can handle every single heroic without an issue. I heal on my main, which has raid-level gear and so on, and my hunter, who still isn't high enough to raid. And still no issues!
TL;DR - less QQ, more pew pew.
Nick Carraway Apr 17th 2011 11:51PM
Cata content is not be too hard for you. It is more effort than million(s?) of customers wish to spend; perhaps not harder than they could do, but more than they will do. IIDK the exact subscriber numbers. I do know that if Blizzard were proud of the subscriber numbers, there would have already been a press release.
My most successful guild has merged twice. And my favorite guild just fell apart. I know a lot of people who left Cataclysm and very, very few who say they like it. I.e., my anecdotal evidence is that Cataclysm is not a success.
I really, really liked an above commenters analogy that Cataclysm is the Occulus of expansions. Somewhere there are Blizzard employees who are so clueless that they do not understand why either are failures. Or worse do not even realize they are failures.
Oh well, I guess there is a last time for any game.