Gold Capped: Competition in tailoring

I got an email from Aralo on Altar of Storms recently that I wanted to share.
I know cloth is not what a person would call a high profit market. It's cut more often then gems, skinned more than leather, melted down more than ore, and well you know where all these puns go. In Wrath on my sever, I was able to (haphazardly at least) able to maintain a steady hold on the more demanded markets. In Cataclysm, though, I'm struggling to stay afloat. Embersilk is particularly rough.Admittedly, part of the reason I want to share this is all the awesome puns. Secondly, I do have a few answers. I'll be writing up a proper tailoring guide next, I promise, but in the meantime, I want to talk about that "steady hold" on the market.
I bring this up because never have I seen you really talk cloth that was not a cooldown. Do you have any ideas on how to stay afloat on threads or maybe some add-ons other than auctioneer to help build and maintain my market?
Who controls this market?
I get accused of "running" a market on a fairly regular basis. My response is always the same: Nobody can control a market -- they can only participate in it. Long-term, serious control of a market is not really profitable, except in a few outlier situations I've never experienced (like an infinitesimally small market).
If you ask people what they mean by "controlling the market," they'll say that the monopolist undercuts immediately day and night and that the mats are always more expensive than the finished goods will support. I'm not saying that controlling a market isn't possible but that it's not profitable. You can do an unprofitable activity as long as you have the bankroll to support it. If the effect you're going for isn't personal profit, then by all means, control away.
Assuming you want to profit in the market, though, take the word "control" out of your vocabulary. Your goal is to make profitable sales, and that's the end. This means buying raw materials, crafting goods, and listing them on the AH. There are all kinds of fun AH PvP tactics involved in these steps, but none of them amount to control. Here are the techniques that are unprofitable:
- Camping I've always said that camping the AH and frequently relisting your goods is a waste of time. The extra revenue it brings compared with a "set it and forget it" strategy isn't worth it in just about any market. If only it could be this clear-cut for buying ...
- Setting materials price This is the big one that everyone thinks is the best strategy until they lose a shirt or two trying it out. You will most certainly have an effect on the price of your materials on the AH, but don't delude yourself into thinking that you can use this effect to lock competitors out. It's unavoidable that all the products you buy will increase prices, but remember that this hurts you as much (or more) as it hurts your competitors. Also, as you buy more and more of your base material, more and more will be listed. If the only way you can protect your margins or revenue is to keep buying the higher volume of stock at a higher price, you're going to build up unsold goods too fast and be stuck with a glut of unsold inventory.
So what can I do?
Just because you can't profitably control a market doesn't mean you have to craft, list, and log off. You can often get decent return on time invested by engaging in some AH PvP. This is a competition, and there's no reason to show restraint to your opponent on the AH, any more than there is in an arena match.
- Profit from auto-undercutters. If your competition or your suppliers use an addon to list their goods or can be counted on to always undercut the cheapest auction instead of the largest batch of auctions, you can profit quite nicely by baiting the AH. Put a small quantity of auctions for, for example, cloth, at well under the cheapest price on the AH (but still believably high) and wait for someone to undercut it. The worst-case scenario is that a competitor will buy it, but it's just one cloth.
- Play for keeps. If you can convince a competitor to act in your interest without anything more than an in-game mail, they're playing to lose. My personal favorite is agreeing with a competitor to price-fix, then using an anonymous alt to undercut once they feel secure that they'll get half of the business. If they get aggressive and buy out my undercutter, I list as much as I can on him.
- Use competitors to manage stock. if you find yourself with too many mats or finished goods, list small quantities on the AH at a price with almost no margin at all. Then spam trade about it when your competitor can see it. More often than not, they'll buy you out. At this point, you can safely mass-list your entire inventory and log out, and by the time you log back in, you'll probably have an inbox full of your competitor's money. It's not as good as high-profit business, but considering that most liquidation situations are triggered by a massive drop in mats prices, you are making someone else take the loss of heavy stocking when priced drop.
Addons
Aralo also wanted advice on addons. Auctioneer is dead to me, as I never looked back after switching to Auctionator and TradeSkillMaster. Your competition uses it to reduce the time spent grinding, and if you're stuck on an obsolete tool, you're handicapping yourself.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Dysthymia Apr 11th 2011 5:20PM
Embersilk's not too bad to farm in Tol Barad. The pirates and townsfolk respawn more quickly than I can decimate them.
Poltergeist Apr 11th 2011 5:44PM
Supplement this by using a potion of treasure finding. The mats are easy enough to farm, and even if you buy the potion, I find I make enough auctioning what I gain to offset the cost.
wa.totem Apr 11th 2011 5:32PM
I'm probably not the best one to learn from, but with 5 toons at max level and nearly all professions maxed, I always found tailoring a bit underwhelming...
I generally started it because I thought it would benefit my long-neglected warlock (it did, a wee bit) but in the end, the best part of it was, it became a superb dump for all those gazillions of various types of cloth i accumulated across 5 toons. Aside from bags, the ability to convert that cloth into some greens or blues that I then sent to whichever of my toons was the enchanter, and get some extra enchanting mats, was something I really liked.
Other than that, there were a few pieces of usable gear to level in, and a few starter crafted epics to don for initial raids, and that was it... sadly.
AltairAntares Apr 11th 2011 7:39PM
I actually made a pretty decent chunk of change in 3.3 with tailoring. By moving primordials and (sometimes) crafting them it was pretty easy to make money. It was a fun thing to do if I didn't have the time to run an instance but still wanted to do something fun.
Hollow Leviathan Apr 11th 2011 5:31PM
I play a mean AH, but I'm not sure I'm willing to meet with real people with the express purpose of lying through my teeth to cheat them out of pixel gold. That seems a bit much.
Fletcher Apr 11th 2011 5:38PM
I'm ... not sure where you got that from, HL. Reading Basil's post it doesn't seem to mention that sort of thing at all.
Blunderwear Apr 11th 2011 6:16PM
"Play for keeps. If you can convince a competitor to act in your interest without anything more than an in-game mail, they're playing to lose. My personal favorite is agreeing with a competitor to price-fix, then using an anonymous alt to undercut once they feel secure that they'll get half of the business. If they get aggressive and buy out my undercutter, I list as much as I can on him."
Is that ethical? Clearly, it is not. Will it work? Probably, unless they do the same thing to you.
Basil Berntsen Apr 11th 2011 10:35PM
As I've said in response to the other similar comments, what's unethical is price-fixing. Anything that doesn't break the ToS is fair game to do to your competitors.
Oriflame Apr 11th 2011 11:13PM
sure, all's fair in love and war, but this is neither.
Nospoon Apr 12th 2011 3:06AM
@Blunderwear
Basil is not being unethical because he is staying true to his system of ethics. I do not agree with the ethical system he perpetuates. His ethics clash with mine. It makes me a little sad. Yet, he is not being unethical.
@Basil
You do contradict yourself a little bit (at least in your other replies). If your competition becomes your buyer, then when you screw one, you are screwing both. There are a lot of things that are permissible via the ToS, but not all is beneficial to you or the WoW community at large.
One has mentioned they are no longer going to read your column any more because they have no reason to believe you will not lie to them (or are already lying) in your column. I doubt the person is alone in that matter. The reason I read your column is because you have such passion when writing about it. I like to see passionate people talking/writing about the things of which they are passionate. I wonder if your passion has blinded you to the ethics of truth telling that bother several who read you regularly.
Maybe you could write a column explaining how lying to another human being is helpful in building community as long as the ToS is not violated.
incoming00 Apr 12th 2011 3:14PM
did anyone else hear batman's voice when reading "I play a mean AH"
rhorle Apr 11th 2011 5:39PM
The twitter link said this was how to profit in tailoring without losing your shirt, but the actual article is nothing about profiting in tailoring. Just profiting in general. Better advertisement needs to be done so its not misleading...
TR Apr 11th 2011 6:45PM
^^This^^
I, too, saw very little in this related to tailoring other than including the question, and little to answer the question in and of itself.
There doesn't seem to be much competition in tailoring at all other than oneself once you get to crafting the end-game items. You can't sell embersilk is all over the place, and 99% of all end-game embersilk goes to crafting dreamcloth which you can't sell. Dreamcloth goes to crafting dreamless belts and breeches of mended nightmare which only clothies will want, and most of these clothies are already tailors. Both pieces take about a week on the Gilneas AH before someone will buy them, and the profit is marginal.
The only real benefit I saw from tailoring was being able to DE the pieces to level enchanting.
techvoodooguy Apr 11th 2011 9:55PM
There is very little to be said about profiting in tailoring that does not also apply to every other profession (minus engineering :O).
Economics are economics, and apply to all markets equally.
Chris Apr 11th 2011 10:59PM
You also have to take into account that fact that economies vary from server to server (sometimes wildly). There is no way to do a hard and fast guide that could take in all the vagaries of the various markets.
rhorle Apr 12th 2011 12:43AM
@Chris
Then why advertise that you are doing a guide aimed at a specific thing? This post specifically stated that the tailoring write up was coming next week. I don't get why people are defending the misleading tweet.
It is pretty easy to tailor an article towards tailoring because it requires differences in application of the theories. You can't treat embersilk cloth the same way as ore because tailors get the boost in drop rate meaning they can easily influence the market. Many servers also have tighter margins with tailoring due to volatiles and prices of end products. If there is no way to do a guide tailored (pun intended) to a specific topic then why does this recurring blog column exist? If it would just be doing generalities every week because "there is no way to..."
rhorle Apr 12th 2011 12:49AM
Forgot to add that spellthread can have its own methodology to it. Spell thread can go as low as 500 gold and lower. But I can still sell it for 750 gold sometimes. Because as the week goes on, and most of the "normal" crafters have used their supply up and sold them at the start of the raid week, the AH supply is sometimes nil and you can get sales at a higher price from those people that are shopping in the moment.
See a somewhat generalized tip of "sometimes waiting to the tuesday reset/downtime rush is over can lead to higher profits" with a tailoring specific delivery. Perfect for the advertised guide of how not to lose my shirt with tailoring....
Karcharos Apr 11th 2011 5:46PM
Here's a question for you Basil.
Is it even possible for a Horde crafter to compete against a Goblin toon for high-ticket items?
I was wondering because I just purchased myself a Mekgineer's Chopper, and I imagine a goblin engineer could sell a Mechanohog at the normal cost of the vendor mats and still turn a profit thanks to their Best Deals Anywhere racial.
Wheighty Apr 14th 2011 5:33PM
Use a Goblin alt to buy the vendor materials needed for things like Vial of the Sands and the chopper.
TinyLittleRobot Apr 11th 2011 5:49PM
Question for you guys:
Does any know if the Potion of Treasure Finding works in Tol Barad? I'd like to use it while doing dailies and farming Embersilk there but I don't know if it actually applies or not.