The Daily Quest: Call to Arms
by Anne Stickney 
Apr 11th 2011 at 4:00PM
WoW Insider's on a Daily Quest to bring you interesting, informative and entertaining WoW-related links from around the blogosphere.
Though nowhere near as controversial as the Real ID fiasco of last year, people are still talking extensively about the new Call to Arms feature unveiled last week. Some are for the change, some are against the change, many think the change isn't going to do a bit of good in the end. Myself, I rarely queue for randoms, so it's not really likely to affect me directly either way -- but the blogosphere sure is hopping over this particular topic. Let's see what they've got to say, shall we?
Is there a story out there we ought to link or a blog we should be following? Just leave us a comment, and you may see it here tomorrow! Be sure to check out our WoW Resources Guide for more WoW-related sites.
- Big Bear Butt points out there's a real reason why tanks aren't queueing, and it isn't a lack of decent rewards.
- Primal Precision thinks people really ought to just suck it up and accept the new system.
- Blessing of Kings discusses the nature of the tank shortage.
- Troll Racials are Overpowered points out the flaws of introducting a rating system to the dungeon finder and points out the rating system of years past.
Is there a story out there we ought to link or a blog we should be following? Just leave us a comment, and you may see it here tomorrow! Be sure to check out our WoW Resources Guide for more WoW-related sites.
Filed under: The Daily Quest
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Amaxe Apr 11th 2011 4:18PM
I found myself nodding as I read the BBB article. The author thought of things I had not considered in why it really isn't going to work.
Chris Apr 11th 2011 5:11PM
That guy is his own worst enemy. His wall of text could've been said "it's not enough of a bribe for him." But he had to equate the whole thing to prostitution and blew this whole thing way out of proportion. If he doesn't care for LFD and the reward is so small that it isn't enough for him to tank PUGS, then why does he care so much? From his tone of voice and the amount of expectations he places on others, he comes off sounding like a total jerk. I bet to find the problem with his PUGs he has no further to look than a mirror.
I've rarely have the issues he talks about in LFD. I get the occasional idiot, but more often than not I go in, tank a quick heroic and get out with relatively few problems and most people asking to que again or commenting on a smooth run. I'm pretty easy going and just adjust my tanking with the ability of the group. With the CTA, I might be inclined to jump in the que again instead of running to outland to farm BC mounts. The JP to Honor point conversion will do more to make me tank more initially than the CTA though.
Fletcher Apr 11th 2011 5:43PM
Chris, I think part of his problem is that he's playing a bear. Bears are so woeful at tanking right now I almost wish they'd stop trying and just have blizzard make feral a DPS-only tree. Yes, there are very good bear tanks out there, but given the paucity of the bear toolbox, they're much - MUCH - harder to play well than a paladin, DK, or (particularly) a warrior (who has an *overflowing* tanking toolbox). Bears have problems, and your average pug DPSer doesn't know about that; they just see a bear struggling to pull, generate, and keep aggro, and conclude that the tank is incompetent.
Chris Apr 11th 2011 6:04PM
I know. I tank a bear too. It's not too bad. Harder yes, but can be done. It's getting fixed in 4.1 though.
Brian! Apr 11th 2011 6:44PM
I only either heal or tank, and I PuG a LOT. I enter every one with a good outlook, and almost all of them are great. More often I find outstanding PuGs vs horrible ones. And even the crappy ones... well, I just leave.
So when I read about a tank complaining that they will never run a PuG, I say get over yourself. As one of the most needed roles, you can kick whomever bothers you and no one is going to argue. I have literally told a guild of 4 that either their friend beats it or I'll leave and they can wait for the next player, and they kicked their own guild member for being a jerk.
Maybe when you join a PuG, talk to the members. Ask how they are doing today. Make some conversation. Most people join the PuG and treat their fellow players like NPCs unless they are not happy in which case they just bitch and complain then. If you are like that, no wonder you hate PuGgin so much.
In the end, I'd rather the ego-inflated tanks and healers stay out of the queue. If the rewards don't feel like a nice perk, then whatever. And if the whiny DPSers quit because they don't get the perk, all the better too.
threesixteen Apr 11th 2011 4:21PM
i was especially intersested in Blessing of Kings's declaration (which i share and have stated on these forums in the past) that 25 man raiding is a dying artform.
on the realm i play on, my guild (a 25 man guild, 12/12 regular) just merged with the only other horde-side 25 man guild. a sad, sad day.
omedon666 Apr 11th 2011 4:24PM
I know I linked this yesterday, but now you guys are on the same topic as this post, so it merits another link!
http://omedon666.livejournal.com/80293.html
My crazy theory: Blizz knows CTA is "a silly fix", but they have now visibly and very noticably "done something", so if the DF still sucks, the community really has no one to blame but themselves.
Sometimes, it's you.
(not you, that guy, ya, him...)
Randomize Apr 11th 2011 11:14PM
Stella's wall of text crits for over 9000!
c-lee Apr 12th 2011 11:51AM
I too believe it's the system that is broken. But I think there is quite an easy (conceptual) fix to the problem. Allow us to make 'friend' with a player from another realm.
Make it a new tab in the social window or something. Allow a generous max limit, and allow forming parties and joining the LFD queue with these cross realm friends. I believe this will eliminate nearly all the problems we're seeing with the LFD tool.
And I believe it is a critical problem for Blizzard. The LFD tool, coupled with intensifying the difficulty of heroic encounters, has meant a bunch of strangers with no rapport meeting up to do something incredibly hard, and the group devolving into chaos the moment they experience a set-back. This has contributed significantly to burn-out, and lack of social satisfaction from completing these challenges, since you're never going to see these people again anyway. What's the point of taking the effort to build a relationship?
Implementing cross-realm friend system, however, will change all this. The best tanks and best healers will befriend lots of DPS's, and there will be rewards for good behaviour and skill.
I can't think of any downsides to this, except for perhaps the technical challenge of implementing such a system. The way I see it, all the building blocks are there already, and if Blizzard had the will, I don't see why such a feature can't be introduced in 4.2.
Yvl Apr 11th 2011 4:48PM
The BBB article really was heading in a great direction for a while, then he started haggling over price instead. There's a much larger problem that Blizzard needs to fix if they want the dungeon finder to work, and that's the quality and attitudes of the people in the group. It's anarchy right now. I know the argument that any sort of punitive system for trouble-makers will just be used by the trouble-makers to make people even more miserable, but I know that Blizzard can think of SOME way to attack this problem.
Lemons Apr 11th 2011 4:52PM
I haven't really gotten into an LFD group that was overly disrespectful in a long time. I think my last one was at the beginning of cata when some douche felt the need to lord over my character literally 20 minutes after I hit 85 by asking by why I was still in quest greens. Idiot.
Anywho...I don't really see a lot of abuse directed at anyone let alone the tank. So when BBB complains of being constantly maligned in heroics I just have to raise an eyebrow at that. I think it's totally an overstatement.
Tanking is easily the most talked about role...I have half a mind to level up my warrior tank who's been sitting at 40 for a good while now just to see if all the tanking QQ is for real. I fully expect to take some flak from idiots as I'm learning, but I expect once I'm a well geared and competent tank people would give me my due respect just as they do on my dps character.
Chris Apr 11th 2011 5:30PM
Yeah you should expect this. So long as you're willing to go with the flow, joke around, etc. Even if you're just learning to tank or tank a new class, as long as you're trying to be reasonable and show you're learning as you go, most people are cool. When I hit my first RFC, I forgot to put on Righteous Fury (generates threat) and was having problems. I quickly looked looked through my spell book and found it. Quickly apologized to the group, said I believe I fixed the problem (which I did) and everyone was really cool.
ToeTag Apr 11th 2011 4:55PM
People already advertise in /2 "WTB tank for Random Heroic, 200g". How is this any different? Isn't Blizzard giving people what they want?
sideshowbob2839 Apr 11th 2011 5:22PM
I stopped tanking on my DK just after ICC came out because of all the abuse that was caused due to people not listening to kill order on a NEW DUNGEON FOR EVERYONE, yelling at me because I was "underequipped for heroics," and I had tanked heroic HOL, Oculus, COStrat, and UP without any difficulties (added a few pieces from badges and guild Naxx runs), and blaming me for not keeping aggro from them when they attacked the wrong target in the first place. It is a lot of abuse that tanks have to take and I for one would rather just run randoms with guildies as a tank than put up with the idiots and trolls in LFD.
Alacran77 Apr 11th 2011 6:01PM
http://standinthebluecircle.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/in-the-blue-circle-interview-with-gtfo-author-zensunim/
I interviewed GTFO addon author, Zensunim, this week on my blog.
Check it out!
Darkvil Apr 11th 2011 6:14PM
I think take the cross server part of LFD away, and many issues are solved,
yes you will be queuing from a smaller pool, but if your attitude is bad then you soon get a name on your server and generally guilds dont like getting bad names from their members.
I heal mainspec now, and I have no interest in LFD, its not worth the hassle for the points or any loot blizz can come up with. I actually dont see that many bad dps to be honest, yes there are some, but not the majority by a long shot. I see many many bad tanks, chain pulling, no cc, no marking, blaming everyone around them, they think they are special I guess and everyone is just there to support them.
So the new bribe approach is not going to work on the good tanks, as they will be raiding and well geared, and lets face it they just don't need to LFD they can guild run, but it will encourage the bad tanks that are just in it for the loot and couldn't care less about tanking as a role. Even more reason to put off the healers and even the DPS.
The only way to fix stuff, is if the actions of individuals has consequence. Today the chance of ever meeting the same character in a LFD group is very low, so they can be as bad as they like and there is no consequence. Rating players can be abused, clicking on a 'like' this player for example opens a whole other hornets nest of problems.
WoW is a social game, its very hard to play wow without being sociable, so reputation on local servers effects social groups and play, before LFD, using trade or setting your name to be available for grouping, was a pain, but you got to know the people that put together good groups, as they were discerning and you knew you would always get a decent group. If you were known to cause trouble you didnt get picked simple, problem solved, self controlling, self managing.
I think I would rather have a little more trouble to make groups but have higher quality groups, than making it easy but the majority are just bad experiences.
I also think that the LFD issues are being confused with the general feeling towards Cataclsm by blizzard, I would rather them focus on why many many people are leaving wow or having a break rather than fixing LFD.
velkairiwyth Apr 12th 2011 2:44AM
Such a joyous topic :D Personally I stand somewhere in the middle. I believe that it WILL make a difference, but how much? Who can say, and how long will it hold sway. Like some of the other posters, I have a couple of blog entries on the matter.
(My initial reaction): http://theeccentrichobo.blogspot.com/2011/04/wow-dungeon-finder-call-to-arms-yuz.html
(My more analytical thoughts on the system, and possible alternatives) http://theeccentrichobo.blogspot.com/2011/04/wow-dungeon-finder-call-to-arms.html
IMO the Call to Arms feature is both a good thing and a bad thing, both for numerous reasons. Perhaps an alternative way of rewarding would be beneficial? Who is to say. I know that I will be interested to see the effects from this.
-V
Bvannas Apr 11th 2011 7:23PM
What is weird is reading articles about them telling stories of the amount of bad-mouthing that goes on in them. Because, whilst I don't doubt that those stories are true, I have been in a lot of randoms, and I can't remember the last time any bad mouthing went on. Even on clear mistakes people were generally polite in mentioning them.
I was in a run an hour ago, Grim batol even, and there was a wipe on the penultimate boss because a fire add exploded in the middle. There was just a jokey comment: 'Thats why you kite the adds :)' and we went back and did it. Some tanky shoulders dropped and the amount of politeness between a DPS (offspec) and the tank (sidegrade) was hillarious.
Vayine Apr 11th 2011 7:46PM
As a Tank/Heal paladin I don't get to see the other side of the story where the tanks and healers are the ones throwing the mud around. It's true that everyone can be rude and because of that it can be hard for players new to their chosen role to get a foothold in the tank/heal niche. The call to arms system will only lure in more un-fit players and failing that only keep the skilled players for a short time , once they get what they want they will disappear into the fog. if this system is to work at all then the rewards will have to be consumable or not be a one time learn/ acquire vanity mounts that any level 85 can get on their own. given the choice between being yelled at while I farm the Raven Lord and taking a quiet 10 minute solo run i pick the latter. Even heaps of gold will only work for so long or maybe rewards you cant conventionally get in-game like store purchases or other redeemable items will do, and cause the system to work a lot better, but we know blizzard is greedy and won't go for that anytime soon. If I am queuing for randoms to basically give some DPS his moneys worth then I expect a decent reward that will keep me coming back. Even if the rewards are fantastic we are bribing people to run randoms with strangers and tanks and healers will not like the feeling of being used.
ahsanali Apr 11th 2011 8:02PM
If you don't want to tank, don't tank. I shall be chain running my three, soon to be four, tanks for the honor points.