Shifting Perspectives: Tanks, bribes, and player behavior

As most of you are probably aware, Blizzard recently announced a new incentive structure for the dungeon finder system called the Call to Arms. In essence, it rewards players for performing what is then the most-needed role in the dungeon finder with a BoA bag containing gold, flasks, and, potentially, mounts and pets.
The Tuesday Shifting column covers the two roles most likely to receive the "goodie bags" -- tanking and healing (I don't think anyone's laboring under the delusion that groups can't get off the ground due to a lack of DPS) -- and the ensuing firestorm on the forums caught my eye. Predictably, players have mixed feelings about the change. Many (I think correctly) blame players' rudeness and uncooperative attitudes for driving off the tank population, but even more are indignant that Blizzard is "bribing" tanks for something they feel should have been addressed by role redesign.
Examine all the arguments in their totality, and I think there's only one real conclusion: I don't believe that Blizzard failed in its effort to make tanking more interesting and enjoyable.
I do believe that developers are struggling to deal with a problem created and driven almost entirely by player behavior. Modern heroics aren't fun, not because the content is bad (it's not) or overtuned (it's fine), but Cataclysm combines parts of The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King 5-man experience that don't play well with each other. The dungeon finder contributes to these problems, but not in the way that you'd think.
I've split this article in two due to length and the difficulty I've had organizing the latter half. I apologize, but I've had to shift the second to next week. Today, I want to give some background on the tanking situation and why elements of the BC and Wrath 5-man experiences turned out to be a poor fit for each other.
The Burning Crusade and heroic difficulty
When heroics were introduced in The Burning Crusade, 5-man tanking wasn't something you did for fun. Pulls were large, and many of the mobs had abilities designed to wipe inattentive groups (e.g., the Nexus Stalker's Gouge in heroic Mana Tombs -- this was back when mobs dropped aggro on an incapacitated tank -- and the Cabal Shadow Priest's Mind Flay in heroic Shadow Lab are two of the more memorable).
However, what was fun was acquiring a reputation on your server as a competent tank. Logging on and immediately receiving a slew of requests for heroic runs felt great. While it didn't make tanking the more vicious BC heroics any easier or more enjoyable, being known as someone who could play these instances with the skill of a virtuoso was tremendously appealing. One of my proudest in-game moments was seeing someone write, "I have never wiped with Allison tanking" on my realm forums in a thread seeking 5-man tanks.
And it was good that you got some validation from fellow players, because frankly, there weren't a lot of things that were objectively fun about tanking at the time.
- Warriors and paladins had the one-two whammy of limited farming capacity and monstrous repair bills.
- Druids and warriors went crazy trying to hold aggro in dungeons like Shattered Halls and Shadow Lab.
- Itemization sucked for the two "hybrid tanks" for the length of the game. Paladins literally did not have a single weapon designed for their use past the ilevel 115 Crystalforged Sword, and this column's addressed the problem of BC bear itemization.
- Threat was a huge problem without Blessing of Salvation (at the time, a flat 30% reduction to all threat generated and a mandatory buff for geared DPS) but wasn't exactly a cakewalk even with it. Well-geared destro warlock in the group? You're screwed.
- And for the proverbial cherry on top, 5-man tanking got harder as your gear got better. Paladins couldn't get enough mana back from heals, and rage starvation was all but guaranteed for decently geared druids and warriors.
The Wrath model and introduction of the dungeon finder
Most players are familiar with the problems that resulted from a confluence of factors in Wrath of the Lich King. In short, buffs to DPS and tanking specs' AoE capabilities in tandem with easier heroics overall (more pointedly, a relative lack of mobs with dangerous abilities requiring the use of crowd control) reduced most heroics to runs where speed was prioritized over skill.
The dungeon finder, introduced in patch 3.3, was well-suited to a world where 5-mans weren't generally difficult, but the timing of its appearance was (with the benefit of hindsight) more important than anyone realized. By December 2009, we were more than a year into Wrath, and even non-raiding characters at 80 were up to their eyeballs in high-quality badge and crafted gear. Thus, the dungeon finder debuted to a game where the content it made more convenient had a high margin for player error due to stat progression.
Tanks doing their daily heroic with random groups lost the opportunity to build a server-wide reputation, but nobody noticed due to the ease of the average 5-man. You don't build a reputation off something that's not that hard to begin with, and group quality's almost a non-issue in any context where you're not dependent on your DPS for crowd control. A good tank during the Wrath era wasn't someone with precision pulling technique or an experienced eye for marking. A good tank was someone who pulled as quickly as possible, given the limits of his or her gear, in order to preempt the common "Gogogogo!" cry. Since Blizzard had removed the many annoyances listed above, tanking was also a lot more fun on its own merits. You could blast through a heroic secure in the knowledge that inexperienced or undergeared DPS exercised almost no impact on the outcome.
Cataclysm: Trouble brewing
The potential problems created by this approach to 5-man content started to become obvious in the Cataclysm beta as Blizzard returned to the more difficult BC instancing model, and that's the situation in which we find ourselves today. Trash is harder, and trash mobs are more numerous. Mobs and bosses have nasty abilities requiring groups to interrupt and play cautiously. Crowd control and careful pulling are required. In short, DPSers have more responsibility for the success of the dungeon, just as tanks have more responsibility for directing the group ... And tanks have responded by leaving the dungeon finder in droves.The dungeon finder is perhaps more suited to a world with greater margin for group error. Tanks are generally unwilling to confront instances requiring heavy crowd control when they don't know what kind of group they're going to get. Guild achievements and reputation are also oriented around guildies' instancing together. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the dungeon finder will become obsolete, but I'm reasonably certain that the wait for a tank is going to get longer. When CC is more of a concern, a tank's control over the dungeon's outcome is necessarily limited, and there are increasingly few incentives to ply your trade for a random group. -- Shifting Perspectives: Bear druids in patch 4.0.1, Sept. 21, 2010
Tanking through the dungeon finder isn't fun nowadays, and I think this is why: The weight of expectation placed upon the average tank is not a new phenomenon, but the difficulty of BC heroics isn't well-suited to the anonymity (i.e., the lack of accountability) inherent to Wrath's dungeon finder. You can argue that it's the worst of both worlds. Rather than being influenced by the knowledge that poor performance will accompany him or her everywhere on the server, an uncooperative DPSer simply disappears back to his or her own realm with no repercussions. By extension, no matter how well I tank heroic Stonecore, I'm back to square one with another group that has no reason to believe I'm competent.
The greater the responsibility given to DPSers in random 5-mans, the less incentive that tanks and healers have to run with anything other than a guild group. While the current dungeon finder doesn't cause this behavior, it certainly enables it.
Shifting Perspectives helps you gear your bear druid at 85, tempts you with weapons, trinkets and relics for bears, then shows you what to do with it all in Feral Druid Tanking 101. We'll also help you gear your resto druid.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives, Death Knight
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 8)
Metalheadz Apr 12th 2011 5:29PM
Great post and very insightful. What I think is really missing is accountability. I really wish in LFD there was a way to hold people accountable for their behavior. Wishful thinking on my part? Probably.
I saw a good point somebody made up earlier about how LFD has taken away part of the server community. I feel that is true. I've meet some great folks using LFD but have never seen them again. Meet some terrible ones and glad I didn't. Another wish: a way to build community or some type of friends list by just meeting up in lfd and being able to make a cross server group. Wishful thinking again.
I consider myself lucky that my last 2 heroics I tanked went off without a hitch. Is it just me or have things gotten just a little better in LFD the past few weeks?
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KLRMNKY Apr 12th 2011 5:34PM
And to add another reason why tanks have stopped queueing
Healers and DPS ninjaing tanking gear.
With the added ability to never see that tank again, in all likelyhood, gives the ninjas an added bonus.
Having lost multiple rolls of plate tanking gear (+parry/+dodge) to paladins, who queue as either DPS or heals because they need it for their offspec, has turned me completely off from tanking in any Cata dungeon, heroic or normal.
The only toon that I do any limited tanking on is with my druid and unless my guild is doing a run, I will not tank in any LFD.
How are people expected to gear their tanks with other classes, and for some reason hunters can still roll need on +str gear, rolling need on tanking gear?
For example: I had a paladin healer tell me that I was really hard to heal my warrior tank during a normal BRC run. This was mainly because my gear was a mixture of cata greens and wrath blues. He kept moaning about it, but when two pieces of tanking gear, the chestpiece and neckpiece, both of which were huge upgrades for me, what does he do?
He rolls NEED... and of course, he wins both items.
This is just one example among hundreds. So if Blizz wants to get me back as a tank in LFD, then they need to fix the loot system. Having to gear up everyone else's off spec while my main spec suffers if no fun at all.
Throwing mounts and flasks at me ain't going to bring me back while the loot system remains completely broke.
Brett Porter Apr 12th 2011 5:50PM
I honestly see them fixing this. Who knows when, but it is something I'm sure is on their radar and something they are working on. I can definitely appreciate the frustration that would cause, and I have definitely been lucky that when someone needs for an OS they ask ahead of time, or at least at the time of the role.
For example, this weekend I was running H Throne and a piece dropped that wasn't an upgrade for me since I'm already raid ready, the fury warrior asked if he could need on it for his OS. Most definitely! And I appreciate he checked ahead of time without assuming I didn't need it.
I look forward to the day when they have a couple more options on the loot window, but hopefully not too many that it gets cluttered or unmanageable.
Grovinofdarkhour Apr 12th 2011 6:06PM
They've already got a system in place that prevents you from rolling need if it's not of your armor type.
So what exactly is preventing them from adding a few criteria, such as whether the piece matches your role in that group?
If someone is in group as a healer, like your paladin, they shouldn't be allowed to roll need on something with dodge, for example. If only the tank can roll need, and the tank doesn't need it, it goes to greed, where it makes perfect sense that the holy pally should be allowed to roll for it.
wayne_scott Apr 12th 2011 6:17PM
A good point. and one which sparks a "that reminds me"
I leveled two toons when Cata went live: a Warrior tank and my main, a Paladin tank.
My Paladin is a Blacksmith (both are miners) so I was able to level my smithing fairly quickly. But I was more than a little put out to discover that I while I could craft DPS plate quite early on ... I couldn't make any tank gear of the same ilevel.
So as a tank I had no choice but to enter my first Cata 5 man (a guild run) significantly less geared than my guildies who were wearing crafted gear.
After numerous normal runs with the (to be expected) crappy drops my guildies were all desperate to run Heroics ... so I started LFDing normals to grind JP and faction rep to speed my gearing up.
In other words I had to run the 5 man normals much more often than my DPS mates to end up at the same place they were.
Eventually we got to the point where we started doing heroics - but by that time I was well and truly sick of the content.
At the same time our guild imploded (due to unrelated issues) and after things had settled down I'd discovered a complete lack of interest in the PvE content. So now I'm doing BGs where I can gear as quickly (or slowly) as anyone else and not be penalised by Blizard because I choose to play Prot.
Hashde Apr 12th 2011 5:44PM
Maybe the bad DPS would be more responsible if getting vote kicked removed them from dungeons for a week. In fact, If they end up quitting over it, problem solved.
redwinger_6 Apr 12th 2011 5:46PM
I think part of the problem is the lack of classes that can tank and heal. Every class can dps. 5 of them can do melee, 6 can do ranged. Only 4 can tank, and 4 more can heal though, and 2 of them share the roles. A lot of people I know who play pallies and druids dps in one spec and either heal or tank in the other. Fewer classes=smaller player base=fewer tanks and healers.
The obvious solution here is a new class that can tank and heal, or two more classes, one of each. That's not going to happen until the next expansion, so we're stuck with either running mostly with guilds, long waits in queue, or paying tanks to run heroics with us.
Farnoth Apr 12th 2011 5:47PM
To those missing the point.
When respect and reputation is mentioned, it's not because someone wants their ego stroked. It's because DPS are more willing to listen to a tank they know is knowledgeable and has a reputation for getting the job done *correctly*.
Take new tanks for instance. They may not know what needs to be CC'd, and what needs to be killed in what order. Even if they played as DPS prior; a lot of DPS go in to tunnel vision and just mindlessly kill by following the 'lucky charms', and not pay attention to what's marked. Because of this, there's a lot of wipes or problems. Now, picture how many people are opting to tank just because of queue times and fit this example.
Then take in to consideration the rudeness involved. A guildy of mine used to be a hell of a tank back in BC and Wrath. Comes in to Cata where things are new, and tries to learn the content and is ridiculed out of the dungeon by people who had started the expansion before he had. Instead of being helpful and giving him heads up on what to mark and stuff, they simply raged at him until he left. I've experienced similar on my newish.
The above doesn't pertain to Heroics, but normals. When stepping in to heroics, even with an understanding of what needs to be done, the simplest little mistake usually ends up with people shit talking and aiming for their 'vote kick' button. I refuse to use the dungeon finder because of it. Not as a tank, not as a DPS. It's nonsense.
The predictions made in this column pertaining to the dungeon finder becoming obsolete have ran true, at least for me.
Cbeefman Apr 12th 2011 5:50PM
Thank you for this one Alison
I've never been able to explain to my GF why or how I know so many people on the server when they are not in my guild. It's because of the rep they had and the rep that I had. I, being a hunter from the days of hunters being told to never have their pet out, realized quickly that all I had was my name so I focused on keeping it in good light.
Your article has reminded me of why I didn't like playing Diablo2 online. It felt impersonal, I didnt like the "lobby" style of community as it felt less involving to me and your article has shown me that the LFD tool essentially transforms the wow community into that.
I also believe that the current state of affairs is the reason some guilds, including my own, have such a hard time recruiting new blood. Even guild to guild rep is gone. The only thing unique to your server now is your auction house (imagine the day Blizz decides to merge those too, i think that would be my que to finally leave) Power guilds are irrelevant now in terms of their name. While yes, the game is more accessible now and i AM grateful for this as it allowed my GF to actually start playing, I do long for the days where "rep" mattered on your server. But, I guess we can't have our cake AND eat it too huh?
RAGE Apr 12th 2011 5:53PM
I only tank for guildies. I make sure I have three guildies with me if we use the LFD tool. When we do that things go nice and smooth.
I will never ever queue for a LFD by myself, too many asshats in the LFD.
redwinger_6 Apr 12th 2011 5:55PM
So what happens when the tank is bad or just a power tripping asshat who decides to kick someone because they looked at them cross-eyed?
Don't just blame the dps, there are plenty of tanks who refuse to work with the rest of the group, or they get a new healer int eh group right before a boss fight and goes charging in without asking the new healer if he or she is ready, or healers that are constantly OOM and don't bring water, and all the other stuff those roles can do that will screw up a group.
Tanks are just 1 person in the group, not the whole group, so stop acting like all your farts smell like perfume and you pee fine wine.
Sara Finn Apr 12th 2011 6:06PM
I agree with your basic theory: that tanks and beakers have more to do than DPS. However, it is not the fault of players, because it's human nature to be lazy. Especially when playing a game during leisure time.
Blizzard needs to make those roles more attractive through actual game mechanics. Such as, cheap and effective aggro-management tools, and non-reactive self-heals for ALL DPS specs. This would take pressure away from tanks and healers from having to babysit DPS that mess up and allow them to focus on 1 job.
It will play havoc with PvP balancing, but then, no one said it should be easy to run an MMO.
Saelorn Apr 12th 2011 6:08PM
I'm all for differentiation, but I think WoW has gotten to the point where it's kind of silly: you have classes like holy paladins and fury warriors who are wearing plate armor, but it's more efficient to have three enemies beating on one guy than to risk either of the other guys getting near-instantly squished.
I'm looking more for a scenario where the plate dps and the tank can both engage an enemy head on, but the retadin will take damage while still beating the enemy before dying, and the tank will take longer to beat his enemy but will take less damage while doing so. Something like a rogue could keep his enemy stun-locked, while a hunter would have the pet tank his enemy. Mages might rely on slowing or freezing, etc.
Basically, I'm looking for an extension of the base system that everyone does while playing solo, instead of the current system where the tank can't deal useful damage and nobody else can take a hit because the health and damage on dungeon mobs are cranked up so high. It would really take the pressure off of one person, by spreading it around to everyone.
MattKrotzer Apr 12th 2011 6:13PM
This post made me smile as I remembered fondly back to the days when I'd log in to spammed whispers begging for Heroic runs. Even on days when I didn't particularly WANT to run Heroics, this feeling was generally enough to get me into a dungeon.
I feel zero incentive to subject myself to the RDF these days. When I'm expected to hold every player's hand, explain boss fights, assign people to handle every boss mechanic, etc., it stops being fun, and starts being a painful chore.
For a while, I would start RDF runs with "Hey guys, please mark any CC you plan to use, and I promise I won't break it." Can you guess how that went? I never saw a single marked target, and people started expecting me to tank it like we were still in Wrath.
Players got smart for the first few weeks of Cataclysm, then disregarded everything once the relatively small pool of tanks became geared enough to carry them through without trying to use their tools effectively.
Will Blizzard's "bribe" get me to use RDF? Probably just long enough for me to get the rare mount(s) I want. Then I'll be gone again, just like I was when Valor Points became irrelevant to me.
rmcasselberry Apr 12th 2011 6:17PM
I have to be honest here, I think that a possible good direction to take would infact be a server only LFG. This puts more pressure on people to play their role, for lack of a better term, properly. As a tank from BC through Cataclysm, I have to say that I still look back and wish for the old BC days again. I made a lot of close friends I still play with today back in BC. I had a very good reputation on my server as one of the few feral tank players would group with instead of asking for a pally instead. And that reputation followed me in to Wrath as I remember wanting to take my hunter in to ToC10 and the leader said I needed the achieve first. I told him I had it on my main and as soon as I told him my mains name, I got an invite. Back in BC, if you were good, both in knowing your class/spec and knowing how to get your job done, then people knew that they could rely on you no matter what role you were filling at that moment.
By bring in a server only LFG, you will have a good chance to bring that back. You will force people to either fill their role as needed in the group, or end up on peoples ignore list where they will not be grouped up with anyone that has them on their list, eventually weeding them completely out of the LFG system. IMO, this will only really cause problems with those people that are the "problem" to begin with. People that are willing to do or atleast learn how to do any kind of CC or interrupt or whatever is needed will only improve and make things go far more smoothly. This will in turn weed out all those that just wanna sit there yelling "gogogogogo" and start firing off shots before the tank has even started moving. It might hurt at first, but I think the ends justify the means.
maketu Apr 12th 2011 6:17PM
Fantastic article well done! As a tank I never use the DF unless I have 2 other guildies with me - if we pull an asshat, we control the kick and can remove them.
I am at stage with my gear that I no longer need to use the DF by myself. Thank you...I play this game to relax, not have people I don't know stress me out. So its 60%, 80% or full guild runs only from this point in - sorry.
Heroic tanking in Cata was a rude shock from LK, at one point I was counting the number of bosses I had downed, not the number of instances I had completed! When I finished the meta-achieve it was a pretty proud moment - I had taken on some pretty hard content and mastered it. That said, I will never run DM again...
So some cosmetic in game rewards, versus someone pissing me off? That doesn't work for me. An opportunity to earn some more valor points? Now your talking, at least that warrants a little more consideration.
Best move in the new patch? The ability to queue up 7 valor Heroics in a row - very easy to run with the guild, and its done for the week!
araquen Apr 12th 2011 6:25PM
I think the article is well written, but there is another side to this story.
Without fail, every tank I have had the misfortune of getting when I pugged was rude and obnoxious. I've actually had one curse me out because I did not buff him the second I had zoned in. Tanks would drop group if they didn't A) like the instance, B) didn't like the group make-up C) didn't get the piece they were looking for on the first boss.
I know healers are an equivalent commodity, but when I ran pugs as DPS to build my healing set, I NEVER saw a healer act as horribly as a tank.
And I think that this bribery will do more to exacerbate the horrible attitudes of pug tanks and cause resentment amongst DPSers who now not only have to put up with the obnoxious behavior BUT assist in the tank getting an extra bag of goodies.
Frankly, they should have scaled down the gift packet and rewarded the TEAM - since, frankly, completing an instance is a TEAM effort.
As it is, I have no intention of healing pugs for the foreseeable future. I'll stick with my guild and the prima donna pug tanks can go stuff it. I don't care if my raven mount is a 100% guarantee drop - nothing is worth having to put up with ill-mannered players.
Monion Apr 12th 2011 7:01PM
Though I don't agree nor disagree with your assessment of tank diva attitudes, suggesting that the team get the incentive package defeats the entire purpose of the incentive package in the first place. We have a shortage of tanks in LFD, therefore we need to incentivize tanks to go to LFD, ergo give them incentive packages. By making the incentive package a team thing, you're back to square 1.
snuf42 Apr 12th 2011 7:01PM
I really hate the tanks that only queue for a specific drop and bail if it they don't get it. I actually had a guildie ask me to heal for him on a run after a specific boss and then bail. I politely declined. Just because the odds of me grouping with the same people are extremely rare doesn't make me feel that it's okay to be dicks to them.
Marsten Apr 12th 2011 6:23PM
I know it'd be a less popular option, but what would be wrong in considering having an option on Dungeon Finder to enable cross-server PuGs, and another option to disable it and use only players from your own realm?