Shifting Perspectives: Total Eclipse, part 1, page 2

This problem hasn't gone unnoticed by the playerbase. I myself pointed out the flaw numerous times during beta, yet nothing was ever changed. The players realize that this problem exists; Blizzard, too, must obviously see what is right in front of it. Why then is nothing done about it?
The simple answer is that there just are not that many alternatives. Commonly, it is suggested that mastery should be changed to alter the flow of Eclipse instead of altering the degree of Eclipse. I agree with this matter in principle, but the sad reality is that it simply isn't possible.
As I've said, Eclipse functions on a set of base numbers. For example, going from a Lunar Eclipse to a Solar Eclipse will always take 10 Starfire casts. There simply is no smooth way to alter this formula and keep mastery as a relevant stat on gear.
Usually, the suggestion is that mastery should change how much Eclipse is generated by each spell while outside of Eclipse. This holds absolutely no reasonable impact on Eclipse generation and wouldn't actually solve any issues at all. Say that you have each point of mastery increase Eclipse gains by 1 per spell cast. Okay, you now generate 21 Eclipse per Starfire cast instead of 20. It would still take 5 casts to reach the next proc. Mastery then would only actually do anything when you reach various factors of 100, such as 25. At that point, you lose a single Starfire cast off each rotation.
Now, there are variables thrown in through Starsurge usage, Euphoria procs, and Shooting Stars procs, but the basic premise remains. Only highly specific values of mastery would matter, and everything else would be meaningless.
The other alternative to this would be to similar reduce Eclipse gains while the proc is active, effectively extending Eclipse. While tweaking numbers could allow for additional factors of mastery to be more useful, inevitably the entire system itself would have to be changed in order to accommodate this. Even then, it wouldn't actually fix the issue that people are hoping for.
If you are going to have it both ways -- reduce Eclipse gains while the buff is active, and increase Eclipse gains while it is inactive -- then Eclipse generation overall would have to be rebalanced.
Consider this: Even going off a system in which every two points of mastery reduces the Eclipse gained while the buff is active by one, at 26 mastery you would only lose any Eclipse power via Starsurge at a rate of two per cast, meaning you would have to cast Starsurge 50 times in order to lose Solar. Hit 30 mastery, and you would never fall out of a Solar Eclipse.
Well, the obvious solution would be to put an artificial cap so that you always generate a certain amount of Eclipse, but this doesn't fix the problem. Once you create such a cap, the goal would then become to gear to this cap and then avoid mastery entirely, as it wouldn't hold any value beyond that point. Mastery would just become another hit cap that we'd juggle.
You could certainly place the cap at some absurdly high number that would never be reached, but, again, it wouldn't fix the issues that people are having now. In order to do this, you would have to create a system wherein Eclipse generation is absolutely horrid at low-level mastery, which would only hurt balance druids in the present to account for future stacking.
There simply isn't any method in which you could tweak the numbers where everyone is happy, and in the end, nothing is actually solved.

Now, the other solution that has been brought forth is to split the damage component of the mastery effect between both the Eclipse and non-Eclipse state. This is perhaps the only method that I have seen which would be capable of working. The changes to mastery in 4.0.6 actually make this a whole lot easier.
In this situation, mastery would give a certain amount of a damage increase to the Eclipse buff as well as increase our damage while not in Eclipse, which would require implementing an entirely new buff that is activated while not in Eclipse.
Given that our mastery currently increased the Eclipse bonus by two per point, this makes splitting the bonus rather simple. Merely cut it in half and spread it out over both situations; each point of mastery would then increase Eclipse damage by 1% and non-Eclipse damage by 1%. Simple.
In truth, real balancing would be slightly more complex than that. Although Eclipse uptime is a normalized function based upon number of spells cast, there are still other factors that need to be considered. To start with, Eclipse has a much higher uptime than 50% even on standard, Patchwerk-style encounters. This is due to various factors such as spells that benefit from Eclipse but don't generate Eclipse and Euphoria procs. Movement is also another factor that will impact Eclipse uptime in normal encounters, as would things such as DoTting multiple targets.
Due to these factors, you couldn't split the current mastery benefit right down the middle and call it a day. Instead, you would have to normalize it against estimated Eclipse uptime values. Eclipse's uptime varies from encounter to encounter and druid to druid, but the best normalization factor would be to do a 75/50 split.
Essentially, this draws the Eclipse bonus from mastery back to pre-4.0.6 values of 1.5% per point, while the druid would now gain 1% additional damage when not in Eclipse. While how this would impact balance would vary from encounter to encounter, the net change should equalize out or perhaps provide a small increase in damage.
Overall, our AoE/multi-DoTting potential would be reduced, given that we often sit in Eclipse during these times; however, our single-target damage would actually increase slightly because Eclipse usually has slightly lower than 75% uptime following the basic rotation.
In general, this would actually be a highly beneficial change to the game overall. In a vast majority of parses, balance druid do not generally rank highly on pure single-target encounters, yet we usually dominate AoE-based encounters that benefit from our multi-DoTting. This is a generalization and not an absolute truth. I know of a number of balance druids who can and have rocked the DPS charts on encounters such a Chimaeron, which is purely single-target. Our single-target damage isn't weak by any means, but there is just as much luck as there is skill involved in pulling out chart-topping numbers in these situations. Due to how much stronger we are during Eclipse, certain procs and effects are much more potent when they align in specific ways.
For example, blowing a potion, haste trinket, and Berserking while under Bloodlust and a Lunar Eclipse so that you are able to easily push to a Solar Eclipse while Insect Swarm and an Eclipsed Moonfire so that they get the full benefit of the four-piece T11 bonus is going to yield a higher DPS increase than doing so during a Solar Eclipse, when you'll end up breaking the GCD. Having Starfall's cooldown perfectly align with the middle of a Lunar Eclipse proc will yield more DPS than having it come up just before a Lunar Eclipse proc.
Some of these variables are controllable; some are not. You can try to time Starfall for a Lunar Eclipse all you want, but Euphoria and Shooting Stars procs, as well as haste procs, are going to alter any planning that you had.
That all aside, this change would most efficiently address more of the issues in the best way possible. It would increase our single-target damage in a more controlled method, it would slightly reduce our AoE potential, and it would make us less worthless outside of Eclipse procs. All in all, it would be win-win.
Make sure you tune in next week as we continue to delve into the world of Eclipse!






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bulldevil Apr 15th 2011 9:30AM
Very good read. I am only moonkin as offspec when we don't need the extra tanks but this is a great post about legit issues with eclipse. Hopefully we will see some changes next patch.
Sterb Apr 15th 2011 9:32AM
Good article Tyler. I'm getting really tired of having to game the eclipse mechanic relentlessly in order to produce competitive DPS. I don't enjoy resorting to Sunfire spam DPS during Cho'gall just so that I'm ready and capable of destroying blood. I don't like that the value of Theralion's Mirror is reduced for my spec because it might proc during a period when it has absolutely zero value.
Eclipse is an interesting mechanic, but tying mastery to its effect has compounded the problems of that mechanic and made them exponentially worse.
RALLEN272 Apr 15th 2011 11:38PM
Good article, I dont play a boomkin but this sounds very similar to the burst problem with warriors colossus smash.
Shade Apr 15th 2011 9:46AM
What about something like eclipse momentum for mastery? It would be incorporated through a new stacking buff. I don't boomkin enough to know what 'fair' numbers would be, but something like
"Whenever you cast Starfire, you gain X stacks of Momentum. Whenever you cast Wrath, you gain Y stacks of Momentum. Each stack of Momentum generates Z lunar or solar energy per second, whichever benefits you more. Momentum loses 1 stack every A seconds when in combat, and every B seconds when out of combat. Momentum will not generate energy during an Eclipse state."
Mastery increases "Z", the energy generated by Momentum per stack. This change in mastery would be beneficial both for PvE and for PvP since it reduces the penalty for movement. It reinforces the value of haste, since "A" (and to a lesser extent "B"), the buff timers, will throttle the number of stacks of Momentum that a rotation can support. "X" and "Y", the stacks gained from Starfire and Wrath respectively, should be based off of their cast times and relative damage output.
Sterb Apr 15th 2011 10:00AM
Wouldn't that make you churn through Eclipse state faster?
Shade Apr 15th 2011 10:34AM
The last line of the "tooltip" states that Momentum stacks essentially turn off during eclipse states, though their timers keep ticking. I almost forgot about that and then stuck in that sentence right before I hit the submit button :D
Sterb Apr 15th 2011 10:48AM
So, essentially you're proposing that Mastery become a stat that pushes you faster through non-eclipsed states based on how often you cast nukes? I think the problem there is that Mastery would either be a useless stat (has nearly no effect) or becomes a cap stat (achieve a certain amount so that you stay in there about one cast). Blizz wants mastery to be a scaling stat and I can't see that working for this mechanic.
Libertine Apr 15th 2011 9:52AM
I definitely agree that splitting the mastery between eclipse vs. non would probably be the most easily workable solution. However, I'm curious about something... when they first announced the new Eclipse mechanic I thought it was going to function in a way that would push you one point toward a solar eclipse whenever you cast a "lunar" spell, and push you one point toward a lunar eclipse whenever you cast a "solar" spell. In that way you could choose to constantly alternate for small gains (for pvp), or build up really heavy eclipses for pve. What do you you think of this? Would it work?
Libertine Apr 15th 2011 9:59AM
Just to clarify what I said above - there would be no 10 spells and then you gain "eclipse". Eclipse would be more a steady slider where you do more damage at each end, that scales linearly. One "point" of Solar/Lunar Eclipse could mean maybe 1% more damage, added to whatever Mastery you have. Then when you get to the end of each side, you could get 10% more + Mastery. It would mean much more time in the middle. It would work a lot like the LOTRO Rune Master actually.
Sterb Apr 15th 2011 10:05AM
The problem is I think people would just abuse the stronger eclipse state (right now, generally solar). They'd never push to the other side.
Libertine Apr 15th 2011 10:16AM
Yeah, but the interesting thing would be that they would have to cast Lunar spells to push toward Solar Eclipse. So if Solar is stronger, they'd be casting the weaker spells not affected by Eclipse to push toward stronger Solar Spells. So theoretically it should even out, at least to some degree. I know there's more to this that would effect it, but it seems like it would be really interesting, and sort of self-balancing :)
Plus I thought that was the whole point of Eclipse - to get us to alternate between our spells, not just cast the one that's strongest. I dunno. What am I missing - why wouldn't this work?
Sterb Apr 15th 2011 10:42AM
Well, the stronger eclipse is the one that benefits your dots more (Solar). The value proposition is either stay on one side by using non-buffed spells (Starfire) or traverse to the other side using unbuffed spells (Wrath). Without considering dots, neither would have a particular advantage.
In fact, as I think of it more, you'd want to stay away from the middle as both schools are weaker in the middle while at least one is strong on one side. At that point, the tie breaker are your dots. Under the system you're proposing, you'd want to rush over to the solar end, put up dots, cast SS on cooldown, cast Wrath when less than one SF's energy away from the end, SF otherwise.
Libertine Apr 15th 2011 11:05AM
Yes, well basically your location on the Eclipse meter would be in constant flux to some degree, and you would have to cast spells of each type. Even if it came down to the rotation you stated, at least you would be constantly alternating spells and mixing it up (and not always at max Eclipse, which would somewhat help the over-scaling issue Tyler spoke of). I can't really see a reason why it wouldn't work.
Libertine Apr 15th 2011 11:11AM
Also the fact that the Solar Eclipse is the stronger eclipse is a separate issue. Maybe they could just add another Lunar Dot that mirrors Insect Swarm :P
Cyrus Apr 15th 2011 10:42AM
Here's a completely spur-of-the-moment suggestion for the mastery: make it give a randomized benefit. Say, Total Eclipse gives your Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge spells a 10-percent chance of adding an additional 5 points of Solar or Lunar energy when you aren't in an Eclipse state, and each point of Mastery increases that chance by 2 percent. (In other words, kind of like Euphoria, but minus the mana part and scaling with gear. Maybe this would even replace the solar/lunar energy part of Euphoria.) With no mastery, you have an infinitesimal chance to get any bonus, and stacking mastery and it would roughly halve the time you spend not in an Eclipse state; the exact percentages are details to be tweaked.
So, anyone have any reasons why that wouldn't work?
Sterb Apr 15th 2011 10:49AM
It would scale really poorly or too well with a cap.
Plainswander Apr 15th 2011 12:19PM
it would also irritate legions of players who prefer to account for every action ahead of time. Some RNG is okay, basing everything off it? We tried that allready, it wasn't very good. (And got us nerfed back to the stone age for a while too.......)
TonyKP Apr 15th 2011 11:04AM
I've always been of the opinion that Eclipse was too much of a hassle to be even remotely worth it (especially from my PvP-centric perspective), and while I no longer play WoW I can't say that I'm surprised that this situation seems to still exist. Someone up there likes Eclipse and doesn't seem to want to give up on it.
Ditching the mechanic altogether and balancing balance druid DPS the same way that every other DPS class is balanced would be ideal, but apparently whomever originally thought up Eclipse must still be on the developer staff and is still trying to make it work, so that seems unlikely.
benjohsmi Apr 15th 2011 11:45AM
What about changing Eclipse to a buff with a timer. When you hit eclipse you have 30 seconds where you are buffed, then when the buff wears off you work your way back to the other side get the other buff and have 30 seconds with it.
Plainswander Apr 15th 2011 12:16PM
I have a serious love/hate going with eclipse. I love seeing those huge hits when I'm eclipsed, but the system itself is just so gamey and irritating to use. There's no grace* to it, I always feel like I'm being jerked around on puppet strings by the mechanics of my class, which isn't entirely enjoyable. To say nothing of feeling like a wet noodle of a DPS'er when I'm not in eclipse.
Then again, I also fondly miss the days when Moonkin made decent offtanks, so, take it with a grain of salt I suppose.
(* - Grace, for the purposes of this post, does not mean fast-reaction-twitchy game play, rather, it means a style of play where every action smoothly leads into another one, and with a proper rhythm achieved, one can simple play. Almost zen-like really.)