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4-17-2011 @ 6:09PM
Oh Garrosh... You and your honor...I miss Thrall :(
4-17-2011 @ 6:29PM
... I wonder if he actually knows what it means sometimes.
4-17-2011 @ 6:37PM
I mean, I wonder if Garrosh understands what honor means.
4-17-2011 @ 9:14PM
Given that Blizzard is not subtle and given that he stomps around giving speeches about honor that reference Saurfang and punishing people for being dishonorable and sending people to punish dishonorable minions and so on, I'm gonna say yes. He probably does. Though it's probably more telling in Stonetalon that he almost avenges the elderly Tauren couple by killing you, regardless of the elderly couples feelings on the matter.
4-17-2011 @ 9:34PM
Yeah. His own twisted version of honor. He's a bad orc and you know how bad orcs get dealt with ;) I sense a major conflict of interest with Thrall wanting to "Save the world" as his current state now yet he appoints Garrosh as the Orc savior and all Garrosh wants to do is extinct the humans from the planet. So which is it? If Garrosh is acting on his own then you can throw honor out the window. If he is acting under Thrall's wishes then Thrall isn't the great savior people like to make him out as.
4-18-2011 @ 2:02AM
You miss the Orc who has made Garrosh warchief and who *still* thinks Garrosh is suitable for the job? The Orc who had the elite of his own army (and the *true* heir to the position of warchief) killed because he could not be bothered to keep tabs on a notorious ally?Thrall certainly was a brilliant guerilla leader, he is an awe-inspiring shaman. A capable politician he is not. Garrosh has the Charlie Sheen approach to politics: 'one gear, one speed - GO!' Yes, Varian has that, too. But Varian is *not* the leader of the Alliance, he is more like a primus inter pares.I for one played through the Undead questline down to Hillsbrad. Suffice it to say that I will never play another Horde char again as long as Sylvanas and Garrosh are in charge.
4-18-2011 @ 2:05AM
I really like Garrosh now. Looking back at Burning Crusade, even when he was being a stupid whiner, Greatmother Geyah said that deep down, he was a wise leader. And at this point, I think that's true. He's been through some extremely rough spots, just because he's never led anything on this scale before. But in general, he wants what's best for his people. And he's hardly the most trigger-happy person in the game. Y'know who's REALLY trigger happy?Night Elves.Bear with me on this for just a second. This struck me while I was doing quests for the Cenarian Expedition in Zangarmarsh on my alt yesterday. Watcher Leesa'oh asked me to get samples from Ogres in the Hewn Bog. I had to kill these ogres to get the samples. In fact, I wound up murdering about twenty. Before you say 'But they were deforesting the marsh!', know that Leesa'oh didn't even know why it was called 'Hewn Bog'. She had no idea what the ogres were doing. She just wanted you to kill ogres.So this got me thinking. I remembered back to Warcraft III, where the Night Elves make first contact with the Orcs. Grom had been sent into the forest to harvest lumber so the Orcs could build a city. Kalimdor was their Promised Land, and they wanted a place to settle down and build a city to shelter their elders and young. Enter the Night Elves. Several scouts run into the Orcish expedition, and their first reaction is, quote, 'You were right, sisters. These greenskins have no respect for life. Slay them all, in Elune's name!'Sorry, my Irony Indicator just exploded. There is no race in WoW other than the Night Elves that 'grows' buildings with druidic magic (and even they don't do it for all of them). Even the Tauren, who at this point worked very closely with the Night Elves, would've had to cut down trees to build the support beams for one of their tents. They are very familiar, at this point, with the concept of cutting down a tree to build a house. So the first thing these 'respecters of life' do when they make first contact with a newer race that also is not enlightened about better ways to build things is brutally murder the new people's women and children. They never open talks or negotiation. They just start killing. When humans move in along with the orcs, they don't open talks with them either. They kill them too. It's only when Archimonde is beating down their door that they even consider teaming up with the Orcs and Humans, who, just for the record, managed to set aside their differences pretty much as soon as they were asked to by Medivh, and this was after centuries of bloody, destructive conflict, as well as racism on both sides in the years that had followed. The Night Elves had never met any of them. But still, they had trouble accepting the fact that maybe they SHOULDN'T kill them all. During the Frozen Throne, we watch a elven woman go totally insane over trying to kill one specific person, even after that person attempts to (in his eyes) make up for those crimes tenfold. She even leaves Tyrande to be destroyed by the Scourge over it. In World of Warcraft, we see that the Orc/Elf situation hasn't improved at all, despite the fact that the Night Elves should have great ties to the Horde, as they are long-standing allies of the Tauren. Instead of allowing the Orcs to cut down a few trees and build a settlement in a lush region where their people can thrive, they force Thrall to settle in a desert if he wants to maintain the peace. In a DESERT. After wrongly attacking both the Horde and the Alliance, and wrongly butchering everything from high-ranking Paladins to Orc grunts and peons, they won't even let the Orcs have a sliver of fertile Kalimdor territory to make amends. And they - surprise! - try to kill the Orcs who stay in Ashenvale. I started to like Garrosh when I first leveled my Tauren Sunwalker alt. Now that I've thought about this, it makes me like him even more. I fought in his war to rid Ashenvale of the Night Elves, and I will fight in his righteous crusade until we tear down the city of Darnassus itself!Because these filthy purple-skins have no respect for life.
4-18-2011 @ 6:00AM
Uh, big difference between taking a few trees (druids can probably grow trees with their magics) and putting up a lumber yard raping an entire section of forest. I haven't played through every night elf zone but the only animals/people they have you kill have been corrupted or are defending their territory. Take that as you will. If you walk into the hewn bog those ogres are hostile towards you. It's not murder at that point it's self defense. ;)
4-18-2011 @ 8:12AM
Noyou: not if you walk in there intending to kill them.
4-18-2011 @ 9:44AM
It's all due to the location of Orgrimmar. They need resources to maintain the city and the nearest sources were Ashenvale and Axhara. The goblins kinda took care of Azhara and no one really cared as it was kind of empty, but the orcs will ALWAYS be in conflict with the Night Elves as long as Orgrimmar stands. I can't say I really blame them, they need supplies and they didn't know the forest were sacred to the nelves. MAYBE if the elves had contacted beforehand and explained to them they could have reached an agreement but more than likely the orcs would have still fought for it. I mean the only other forest nearby is what, Feralas?Honestly, I think the whole thing could have been prevented if the night elves had never joined the Alliance.
4-18-2011 @ 10:18AM
I understand that they wanted to move Thrall's story forward but I really dont understand how Thrall would ever place Garrosh as the leader of the horde. In my view Thrall would place either Vol'jin or Cairne as leaders of the Horde and Garrosh and some orc Shaman as leaders of the Orcs.I also could never see Thrall accepting the forsaken in the Horde. especially after Wrathgate so, my guess is that for the sake of the game, they completely ignored what Thrall would do.
4-18-2011 @ 10:22AM
@Noyou:A big race requires a lot of lumber, and you would think they would have arrived at this conclusion just from common sense. Also, remember that the Night Elves first started picking off the peons the moment they started cutting down the trees. My real problem here is that they didn't even bother to send envoys first. I'm sure Grom would've said no, we're not leaving, come and get a piece of me if you think you're hard enough because I am a frigging orcish Kratos, but it's just the fact that they didn't even bother to try and ask for peace that bothers me. Thrall, at least, would've accepted it in a heartbeat. He DID go out of his way to help an oppressed people group leave the Barrens and establish their own nation, so if the Night Elves had approached him and offered peace, he would probably have gone out of his way to make up for the few supposedly sacred trees Grom had already cut down (and more than just those trees were grown back in about an instant when Cenarius had his little temper tantrum).The Orcs need supplies that only the forest can provide even to this day, and they won't let them have it without going down kicking and screaming. Meanwhile, Garrosh is fighting a multi-front war so he can give his people what they need to survive. Garrosh is much smarter than Thrall in a lot of ways. The most important thing he has realized that Thrall has not, imo, is that the races of Azeroth can no longer coexist. The humans want to butcher the orcs for no reason because Varian told them to, the orcs need the Night Elven territories if they want to survive for much longer, and both the humans and the Forsaken have been at each others throats already for years. War is unavoidable at this point, but since it's a war that the Horde MUST win if it is to survive, he is determined to come out on top. Curiously, he doesn't expect his troops to win this war 'by any means necessary' - he still wishes for his men to fight honorably. He understands more than anyone else the consequences of the Orcs descending into barbaric behavior - remember Nagrand? He was in a horrible depression because he was certain he would become his father when he started to lead. Everyone else knew his belief was unfounded, but he had so much fear of that sort of path, and so little faith in himself, that he was paralyzed to act. You can tell his confidence is pretty low in Wrath, as well. He's constantly overdoing things, constantly trying to live up to the 'fighting spirit of the Horde'. He had to use an iron fist to hold the Horde together for the first week or so of his leadership. But I think his mentoring from Saurfang and his leadership experience is kicking in. He knows when to kill and when not to kill, he's courageous on the battlefield, and expects the Horde to fight with dignity and valor. Because if the Horde doesn't act honorable in front of the Alliance, then human racism will continue, and these wars will never end.
4-18-2011 @ 2:45PM
Man, you Horde-fans are sou short-headed when it comes to politics... You must notice that, while the Alliance is a group of factions that think (almost all times) the same way and work together for a common goal and has no "leader" or "warchief", the Horde has a self-entitled chief in the orcs, that helped some scattered races here and there, gaining their help, in a kind of alliance that is fringe as it sounds. You can see that in the Forsaken, that already are only Horde in the name, not following the orcs rulership anymore. The Trolls, long time orc partners, only to see this being totally ignorated by a dull-headed grunt, relegating them to the lower end of the totem pole. The Blood Elves, joined the Horde for simple convenience, as Thrall needed some support in the Eastern Kingdoms, and they can leave the horde to join the Alliance because of the Forsaken threat. The Taurens, that are very nature alligned and are as partners to the Night Elves as they are to the Orcs. And the Goblins, that are only on it for the money. I can see any of the Horde factions leaving (to join Alliance or not), but I can't see any of the Alliance factions to leave (maybe the Gilneans, as they where always self-oriented, but for sure not joining the Horde). That's because one simple thing that caracterizes an alliance, same goals. The Alliance have it, the Horde don't.
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