Officers' Quarters: That other guild reputation
by Scott Andrews 
Apr 18th 2011 at 1:00PM
These days, when you say "guild reputation," most people think of the guild rep grind that's required to buy items like the Armadillo Pup and the Dark Phoenix. Cataclysm didn't invent this concept -- the expansion simply turned what already exists into a specific number with some fun rewards attached. As long as there have been guilds, there have been players with an opinion about them, and vice versa. This kind of reputation plays a huge role in a guild's success or failure, particularly when it comes to recruiting. This week, an officer with a rep problem asks how to deal with a handful of former members who are sabotaging the guild's recruiting efforts.
Hey Scott,
So my guild is fairly new (about 3-4 months) we started at the beginning of cataclysm as a guild of friends who wanted to raid on the weekends together. We slowly built up and developed a raider base however it was very difficult to get new players as every other guild on the server was looking for people. We had around 6-7 devoted raiders but those last 3 or so raiding slots left it difficult for us to pug and find members in general who were willing to raid. We went through a variety of members in these slots but most of these people didn't understand the concept of a "raiding guild." Some misunderstandings occurred and over the course of our guilds existence we developed about 4-5 "haters."
These haters are against our guild no matter what and tell all their friends about what a horrible guild we are. It's gotten to the point where when we advertise in trade, people we don't even know will bash us in front of the whole server. These people have spread ridiculous and untrue rumors about our guild to everyone they knew and it's getting to the point where we can't even get more members since people have "heard bad stuff about us" even though non of this stuff is true. I've tried talking to these "haters" but they insist that I'M wrong and they just put me on ignore. Please, I don't know what to do anymore and we are a small 10m raiding guild who desperately needs more raiders for it's second group since only 1 person gone from our main group means disaster. I don't know what to do about these haters!Hi, Stressed. Misunderstandings are a fact of life in online gaming. Veteran players know this, and most of us try not to lose our cool when these sorts of things happen. Unfortunately, some people don't have the maturity or the patience to deal with misunderstandings, and they turn what should have been a regrettable but forgettable incident into a bitter and enduring grudge. It sounds like that's what you're dealing with here. The way I see it, you have a few possible solutions.
Thanks,
Stressed
1. Take them head on. Since they are going out of their way to trash you, you could try fighting back. Talking to them hasn't helped, but if you go on the offensive in public, then perhaps you can win back your guild's reputation with a good old-fashioned verbal confrontation.
Next time you're recruiting in trade chat and someone makes a rude comment, ask them why they hold that opinion. Don't be hostile or aggressive. Stay calm, be reasonable, and refute their statements with the reality of the guild. Cite specific examples of things that you do or specific policies that you have that prove they are wrong. Identify yourself as a guild leader/officer, and offer to answer any questions that people may have about the guild or the false rumors about it.
Don't engage the haters in childish banter. Let their own immaturity work against them and discredit their arguments, and let your own reasonableness in the face of this attack speak for you and your community.
The downside to this, of course, is that no matter what people believe or don't believe, everyone will think your guild is prone to drama if they see this kind of discourse in trade. You'll have to weigh that against what people think about the guild now -- and decide which is worse.
2. Try other recruiting methods. Trade chat is the most direct method, but there are other methods of recruiting at your disposal that aren't so blatantly public. You can ask your own members to reach out to friends in private, you can talk to solid players that you group up with in dungeons or raids about joining, and you can host server events or competitions. The latter method has the additional benefit of providing some positive rep to balance out the bad.
Once everything blows over, you can go back to advertising in trade -- but don't give up on these other methods, either.
3. Change your name. Hey, rebranding worked for Nissan, Philip Morris, and Blackwater -- it can work for you too! Unfortunately, doing so right now will mean you'll have to repurchase your bank vaults, re-earn achievements, and re-grind guild level. It's a steep price to pay, but it has the advantage of a fresh start without changing servers. If you can afford to wait, Blizzard has announced a guild name change service (that will probably cost real-world money).
4. Transfer to a new server. This solution is certainly the most drastic, but you'll solve the issue in one fell swoop. All the same drawbacks apply to changing your name, with the additional risk that not everyone in your guild would be willing to pay to transfer or to leave your current server. You may find yourself even more short-handed in the short term, but hopefully you'll have an easier time recruiting in the long term.
Luckily, Blizzard is also planning to offer a guild transfer service, if you're able to wait for it.
The third and fourth options may feel like giving up or letting the haters win. By all means, if you don't want to let that happen, keep fighting the good fight. Keep those other options on the table, however. You may reach a point where you decide it's not worth the headaches.
Has anyone else encountered this type of problem? How did you resolve it?
/salute
Recently, Officers' Quarters has examined how strong new leadership can create a guild turnaround, the pitfalls of promising more than you can deliver, and lessons learned from Scott's own guild demise. Send your own guild-related questions and suggestions to scott@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Necromann Apr 18th 2011 2:17PM
The guild I'm in got it's name changed. I don't know all the details, but I think it was like above, with someone(or people) bashing us in trade
Devo_AS Apr 18th 2011 1:19PM
When can I start earned Reputation towards my guild? I rolled a Mage alt and he is in his mid 30's but i have been stuck at the beginning of Neutral Guild Rep.
Do i need to hit a specific level before I can start accruing Guild Reputation?
greenbeans Apr 18th 2011 1:30PM
At low levels you get all of 1 rep per quest turn in, and it ramps up painfully slowly. My post-cata alt is now level 71 (I think I'm getting around 10 rep per quest these days), and is still neutral with my guild.
Darthregis Apr 18th 2011 1:30PM
You already are getting Guild Reputation. What your experiencing is one of the "flaws" in the system. The amount of experience your character gains is directly related to how much guild reputation you gain.
Given that you're a lower level character, you are granted a relatively low amount of experience (e.g.: ~2500 xp per quest turn in at level 30-ish, vs ~65,000 xp at level 84). As such, your guild reputation gains are also noticably lower.
Also, to quote a guild-mate of mine:
As in life, things don't tend to get interesting until you're in your 70's.
:)
Nitride Apr 18th 2011 1:31PM
Yeah it is a slow grind. Doing dailies at 85 seems to be the fastest route to guild rep.
Guild XP follows along with your progress, making the guild "better" faster than you get "rewarded" for the effort. Nice job, Blizz!
Gimp Apr 18th 2011 1:32PM
You start getting rep at level1 but it's really slow. I've been levelling with nothing but quests and at around 70 I finally hit friendly with my guild.
Thallium Apr 18th 2011 1:32PM
You already are, you just aren't earning much. 1-2 rep/quest. It'll steadily go up as you level, to where you're getting 17 rep/quest at the beginning of Hyjal and 42 rep/quest in the Twilight Highlands. Or whatever the exact numbers are, I think my guild perk increases rep gained, even guild rep.
kingoomieiii Apr 18th 2011 1:38PM
Quests start awarding small amounts of guild rep in the 50s and 60s.
GhostWhoWalks Apr 18th 2011 2:50PM
Unfortunately, there's no real way to gain guild rep from quests until you hit the Cataclysm zones. On the plus side, however, your rep gain increases drastically. Leveling from 80 to 85 through primarily quests will get you almost to Honored by the time you reach the level cap.
If you're really desperate for guild rep at lower levels, doing dungeons in a guild group will get you some points.
Daedalus Apr 18th 2011 1:22PM
If it's really getting to the point of harrassment, you can always try reporting the players. Abuse and harrasment against a group of people is just as much a ToS violation as harrassing a single player.
We had a similar incident on my server, where one disgruntled player spent seemingly every waking hour warning people off a certain guild, and more specifically a certain guild leader. His major line was that the leader was a ninja. Now, I'd been in this guy's guild; I'd raided with him, and ultimately I quit after he went on kind of a power trip, he wasn't the best guild leader in the world, but he certainly wasn't a ninja. (In fact, I'd pugged an OS raid with his guild in the early days of 3.0; guild rules said if there were puggers, loot was open roll, and I won the roll for Illustration of the Dragon Soul: probably the most sough after caster trinket at the time. I can only imagine the amount of flak he must have taken from guildies for looting it to me...)
I started off just refuting and mocking the guy whenever I'd see him in trade chat, but eventually, I just gave up and started reporting him. Not soon after, the comments stopped.
Gimmlette Apr 18th 2011 1:33PM
I wonder if the OP has encountered the hate in the Guild Recruitment or General Chat channels. Trade Chat, while having the widest audience, also has people who would rather spend their time bashing anyone. It could be those who ape the hate are just doing it because that's what they do. It's nothing personal. It could be less hostile in the other two channels.
Has he/she posted to his/her server forum and in the WOW Main Recruitment Forum? Those are other places he/she should have a recruitment post. The advantage to these forums is that if the message gets excessively hostile or vitriolic, forum moderators will remove the offending posts.
I agree with the idea to hold a server-wide event. Offer cash or other prizes. A suggestion for a prize is a belt buckle as, on my server, they can go for 250-500g, depending on number in the AH. Regardless of the ability to make money now, which you can hand over fist, offering a tangible, even if it's turned around and sold in the AH, is very good PR.
He or she also needs to look at what he is selling. What is special about his or her guild? I look at my server forum or the chat channels and dozens of guilds are advertising for raiders to fill slots in Cata 10 or 25 mans. Why should I join up with this guild? What makes this guild special? If the OP can answer that, he'll have another weapon in his arsenal of PR about his guild.
The other thing I suggest the OP do is talk to the GL's of the top guilds on the server. Ask them how his/her guild is perceived. It's entirely possible 75% of the server doesn't even know his guild. If the perception is negative, ask the GL's for suggestions on changing it, refuting any perceived negativity calmly.
I had some bad-mouthing of my guild 2 years ago. As it happened in Trade and I don't have Trade open, I never saw it. It got back to me third and fourth hand. I sent a letter to the leaders of the top three guilds on my server. They all wrote back to say they hadn't seen the comments, didn't really find anything wrong with my guild and they would let me know if they had any questions. They then took on the nay-sayers and shut the nastiness down without my having to confront the comments.
Good luck. A bad reputation, even one undeserved, follows longer than the smell of a skunk.
mibu.work1 Apr 18th 2011 1:35PM
I've had issues like this too. After a few months, haters tend to gorget, but a lot can go into how well people remember. My guild that had this problem, Myrmidon, was over it in a few weeks once the haters gave up, because it's a fairly generic name. Names that stand out on my server tend to have attatched reputations, for example:
FLYING RAPTORS, an absurd non-sequeter that's been on my server forever, mostly known for its eccentric guild-leader with a simmilar name
HOHA: Stands for Horde-on-Horde Action, forced to change their name at the beginning of Wrath to its current acronym, they're one of the largest guilds on our server, and were recently our server first for getting guild level 25.
Blood and Cupcakes: a large-ish guild that you'll see everywhere in questing zones, very friendly and happy to help, they leave an impression
Vini Vidi Vici: When I payed attention to them back in BC, one of the best raiding guilds of the alliance in my server, named after one of the most famous phrases of all time, used to be known for their massive world-pvp battles with large horde guilds, not sure what they're up to now.
All of these have iconic names, whereas a lot of the guild I've been in (Myrmidon, Thunderstruck, Zerocool, Driven) are all single words or portmanteaus that are either semi-obscure references or simple evocative phrases, and thus not very memorable to those outside the guild.
Zanaji Apr 18th 2011 1:43PM
Zerocool...nice if it's referencing what I think it is.
Idaelus Apr 18th 2011 1:48PM
I would totally join a guild called Blood and Cupcakes.
mibu.work1 Apr 18th 2011 1:49PM
@ Zanaji
It's to a certain computer-oriented movie, if that's what you're thinking.
Zanaji Apr 18th 2011 2:41PM
completely unrealistic movie, but fun.
dengarsw Apr 18th 2011 2:54PM
Joke names may stand out, but consider the type of player it attracts. I've been in a few such guilds, and I learned my lesson fast. The other end of it is the "Ominious cliche name here" usually involving certain key words (dead/death, kill(er), black, red, assassins, ninja, pirate, lord, order, chaos, etc).
The single word names can work if you pick a good one and do something, though if you plan on going multi-gaming, this can be troublesome. I've met several guilds called "Bad," all claiming how awesome they are, but more often than not, they're one trick ponies.
Malozing Apr 18th 2011 3:48PM
There is no space in FLYINGRAPTORS. I think... Zerocool was filled with great people, but we got hacked a lot :| Members though it was because of the name.
The name can go a long way. Good luck Stressed.
Trisnics Apr 19th 2011 10:03AM
In response to one of the above posters, the funny thing is that the guild Bad on our server (Dragonmaw US) is the most progressed PvE guild.
For a new guild I also wouldn't recommend a funny name since serious people won't take it seriously, at least at first. One name guild names tend to work very well, however.
(cutaia) Apr 18th 2011 2:09PM
It's sad when trade chat bandwagoneers start piping in just because they've heard someone else say something bad about a guild/person. People really ought to just mind their own damned business unless they've specifically had a bad experience themselves. When it starts becoming a server "meme" to bash someone, it really just becomes harassment.