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4-18-2011 @ 7:10PM
Just a follow up questions on the mouseover heals. "...while clicking targets is preferred for casted healing, since it allows you to better utilize the time between your casts. " I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that statement. What are you doing in this time that mouse over heals don't allow you to? Your mouse only needs to be over the target as the heal begins to go off. I always saw this as efficiency of movement. Rather than move mouse, click, cast, you are just eliminating the click from the action.Not trying to start an argument or anything, I'm honestly curious if I'm missing something here.
4-18-2011 @ 7:42PM
If I'm casting a heal, I can select my next target and be ready to click on my third by the time the cast is finished. Now, with the haste levels we currently have it doesn't matter all that much anymore because you're spending so long between casts anyway that the time I save by being ready to click on my third target isn't all that much better than moving to my next mouseover target after the 2nd cast has queued, but when casts were all 1-1.1 seconds long it made a difference. In general it lets me map out where I'm going a little better too, but that's just a personal preference.Tangent'ing off... Mouseover healing also poses a bit of an issue for movement which I don't care for. All the mouseover healers I've known were great throughput healers but were terrible at staying alive. I'm sure there are mouseover healers out there who stay alive just fine, granted, but it is something most healers should consider when going down that road. What do you gain, what do you lose? If mouseover was all pluses, no minuses, every top healer in the world would use it. They don't, and there's a reason for that.
4-18-2011 @ 7:51PM
Thanks for the response. On the first portion, I feel with Quartz (or whatever casting bar you use that has one) the latency portion of the bar lets me stay ahead with the mouseover heals. However, I will concede on the second point. Iit can become a decision between healing someone and getting out of the bad quickly. Last week on the Magmaw trash, my mouseover smite macro (target of target = harm, something along those lines) totally failed me. The DPS I was using to bounce smite off targeted Magmaw and yea.... So I know mouseover stuff isn't infallible by any means, just my preferred playing style. :)Thanks for the clarification!
4-18-2011 @ 7:53PM
I still don't understand. Your sequence: click, cast, move mouse, click, cast, move mouse, click, cast. Mine: cast, move mouse, cast, move mouse, cast.
4-18-2011 @ 7:55PM
Personally, I click well before my previous cast finishes, then move my mouse on to the next priority target. With a mouseover macro, I'd always feel behind.Smite healing would probably be slightly easier with mouseover macros, though I'd be more likely to macro Smite to target-of-target (or an intelligent variation thereof) than to change my healing style.Another reason I prefer targeting is that I move with my mouse while doing instant casts sometimes. It's much easier when I'm already used to having a target.
4-18-2011 @ 7:56PM
....aaand Dawn beat me to most of it. Ah, well, that's what I get for not refreshing first.
4-18-2011 @ 8:04PM
@Keith: I think the main difference is we prefer to have a solid idea of where our next heal goes, even if the mouse slides a bit by accident. With Grid (or any raid frames), I have visual feedback of who I target, and since I'm targeting well before I cast, I have time to correct a misclick. With mouseover healing, by the time you get visual confirmation of who you're casting on, you've already started casting.
4-18-2011 @ 8:38PM
Have to say I completely disagree with you Dawn, I've used mouseover healing (via Vuh'do and prior to that addon grid/clique) on all four of my healers for as long as I can remember, I've never felt that it has slowed me down in the least nor does it cause me to stand in bad. I don't really get the connection you are forming between mouseover healing and being able to stay alive. As far as it being "slower", I don't have to let my mouse hover over the intended target for an inordinate amount of time, by the time the cast has started I've moved on to a different target. As for accidently hovering your mouse over the "wrong" target, perhaps the issue there isn't mouseover healing but using raid frames that are stupidly small. In raid situations I can always tell the people who are "clickers" because they are the people unless they have spiderman reflexes are usually the ones whose targets die the most.
4-19-2011 @ 12:50AM
@ tara"I don't really get the connection you are forming between mouseover healing and being able to stay alive. "The connection is that if you're not moving with your mouse, you're a keyboard turner. They are you're two options. I'm a healbot (and therefore mouseover) healer, and on fights like heroic maloriak where you're -constantly- moving out of bad, it's easier to see how your mouseover heals can suffer when you're moving your toon with your mouse, or vice versa.I try to position myself very carefully so my usual keyboard movements are enough to get out of puddles, but if rng hates me, I have to admit that I'm hoping the other healers can cover for me.
4-19-2011 @ 1:15AM
This is why I will never write more than one macro article per year. Everyone wants to argue about how their way of doing things is the absolute superior way of doing things instead of actually offering up useful macros to other people. There is no such thing as an absolute best way to play that works for everyone. It all comes down to what works for you, and anyone who tries to tell someone his way is better always comes off as an ass. These types of arguments bring out the worst in people ._______.
4-19-2011 @ 1:26AM
I use the keyboard to move with my left hand and mouseover heal using grid + clique and a multi button gaming mouse. Clique can be set up to use macros as well, for things like Holyword:Chastise and it's various incarnations. I don't have any trouble moving as required, but then it's what I'm used to after 6 years.In 5mans I would click the target and heal, but once I started raid healing that method didn't suit my needs. I like to have the boss targetted in some fights, so I can see things that need dispelling (plus my dispel mouseover works on the boss as well) or see who the target for a specific ability is. I like that heads up that X ability has been cast at Y person, because if the ability has a cast time I can get a shield onto that player pre emptively rather than waiting for a raid warning or a debuff to show up. My focus target may be different from the boss, or a different boss for multi boss fights, so mouse over healing gives me flexibility with my target.The biggest problem I have it using the push to talk button and moving. That's more of a hassle for me as a raid leader.
4-19-2011 @ 5:10AM
@keith for me, i click, move mouse while hitting the hotkey to cast, click mid cast, move mouse and hit hotkeyi dont think i could ever use mouse-over macros simply due to the fact i have my target selected well before my previous cast is finishedoh and i use my mouse to move, and with my raid frames where they are....i would be oom in 3 secs if i wasnt careful, but with click casting, i can heal and move at the same time
4-19-2011 @ 5:28AM
I have all my macros set up like this:#showtooltip/cast [@mouseover, help] Greater Heal; [help] Greater HealFor me it's the best of both worlds. I can heal on mouse over and if needed, pick a target, mouse over empty space or hold down right mouse button (moving) and heal that target.Also without a target, I can just hold the right mouse button and it heals my self.
4-19-2011 @ 5:51AM
I understand that some people prefer healing with targeting the player rather than mouseover, but I actually found mouseover helped my healing much more, especially the faster heals were getting cast; since I lost time in the targeting of the player, then pressing the button to cast the spell. I find that most of the time, I don't have the opportunity to map out heals 3 heals in advanced, especially with cast times on all of them. Either by the time I get to person 3, they're dead, or have already been healed. (That is generally, there are times when I get to person 4 on the mentally tallied list with success also)Anyways, I noticed the mouseover macros presented at least in this page, are of the mouseover only variety. The link to matticus shows another variety, which allows you to heal on mouseover, as well as by targeting, so you have the flexibility to do either or in the same button press. (example)#showtooltip Cure Disease/cast [target=mouseover, exists] Cure Disease; Cure Disease;In addition, I have made my own modification to the basic mouseover/targeting heal macro, which allows you to double it up with an offensive spell. I particularly find this useful, as I have a limited number of keys which are within easy reach of my fingers and this increases the spells I can cast easily by nearly double. This could be useful for people who like mousovers in general, and are looking for ways to save keybinding space: (example)#showtooltip/cast [@mouseover,noharm,exists] Heal;[@mouseover,harm,exists] Smite;[noharm]Heal;[harm]Smite;The macro above also works if you target as well, and is what the second repetitions of the spells at the end are for enabling. What I usually find myself doing is mousing over someone to initiate a heal cast (with boss targeted, so I can watch for any abilities/casts he does), and moving my mouse away from the grid layout to cast a quick smite on the boss, allowing me to trigger archangel for mana gains, before going back to healing.Mainly offering these up as examples for people interested in mouseover-type macros, since you did suggest posting advice for it if we had any. Hope it helps anyone interested!(Also, these macros I haven't had to update in a while, so there may be new changes which would allow for some shortening of the script. However, they all currently work fine, so I don't change them. And as with most macros like this, just replace the example spell names with the spells you would like. :3)
4-19-2011 @ 10:11AM
I still don't get it. I think your efficiency is a mirage - you're doing stuff between casts, but it doesn't get those casts off any sooner, and you're committing earlier to your next target. And you may think people who say their method is better come off as asses, Dawn, but your disclaimer notwithstanding, you plainly claim your way is better in the article - "clicking targets is preferred for casted healing".
4-19-2011 @ 12:23PM
As a Disc Priest, I normally always have a mob targeted. You just HAVE to throw in the Smites every spare cooldown, you know? This also lets you be aware of what spells the boss is casting. My healing macros follow a priority.1. Mouseover 2. Target (if friendly) 3. Target of Target (if friendly) 4. Self
4-19-2011 @ 1:09PM
I think the mouseover vs. target select debate comes down to whether you're a keyboard mover or mouse. I know plenty of people on both sides of that debate and have never really understood why there's so much hate for people that prefer to use the keyboard for their movements. Probably in world first type of situations those few milliseconds here and there make a difference, but I think for most players it really just doesn't matter.I would think that most people that heal with mouseovers are keyboard movers/turners and those that click cast are mouse movers.
4-19-2011 @ 3:19PM
"I would think that most people that heal with mouseovers are keyboard movers/turners and those that click cast are mouse movers."I am not sure where this train of thought comes from. Having used mouseover macros in combination with mouse turning for a few years now, I have had no trouble at all running out of fire, etc. The strafe keys work wonderfully. Try it long enough and it becomes second nature. The argument for mouseover macros saving time is valid. Dawn seems to be under the misconception that click-casting is superior because it allows you to preemptively select your next target before your current cast is complete, something that is no less possible, indeed even faster, through mouseover macros. After all, you are removing an entire step from the process.
5-30-2011 @ 2:46AM
I think what was missing in these explanations of mouse click healing is that the heal spell is actually bound to the mouse button. So Left Click and it casts Flash Heal on whoever I'm clicking on. You don't click to select the person, then cast the heal. Your click on the person actually casts the heal when you click on them.I'm pretty sure this is what people mean when they talk about click healing.
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