Shifting Perspectives: Tanks, bribes, and player behavior, part 2

This week we return for the conclusion of our series examining the likely impact of the new Call to Arms system debuting in patch 4.1. If you're looking for last week's article, you'll find that here: Shifting Perspectives: Tanks, bribes, and player behavior.
To summarize the observations and argument of the first article as quickly as possible, Cataclysm returned players to the difficulty of The Burning Crusade instancing model without the benefits that tanks gained from building a reputation as competent players -- namely, the reasonable expectation that groups would cooperate with kill orders and any requests for crowd control. The dungeon finder, arguably a tool better suited to the ease and speed of Wrath of the Lich King heroics, has left tanks in an unfortunate position: They now attempt to lead groups through more difficult content with the unreliable vote kick as their sole defense against obstreperous players. That DPS queue times have soared under the present circumstances shouldn't arrive as a shock.
I'm going to try to explain why Call to Arms may very well result in more tanks queueing for 5-mans through the dungeon finder and who we're likely to see if and/or when this happens.
The most pertinent observation to be made here is that players aren't as easily separated into "tanks," "DPS," and "healers" as you might think. At any given moment, yes -- you have to be playing one of the three. But as the expansion advances, more and more people will have multiple geared toons at 85, and with the Call to Arms reward bag being BoA, they are theoretically more likely to to run a tank character through the dungeon finder if the potential rewards appeal to them. As of now, the bag's contents are a chunk of gold, randomly generated flasks, and a small chance at 5-man dungeon mount drops.
This article is written with two assumptions that I think are pretty reasonable: that most players have a designated main, and that they care the most about sending desirable rewards to this character over others. Most people are only interested in putting titles, mounts, and expensive/prestigious items on one toon at the most, given the amount of effort involved.
So who's out there tanking right now, anyway?
For the purpose of this argument, I think the game's tanks and potential tanks can be classified as follows:
- Raiding Professionals Main-spec tanks and off tanks in current raiding content. Their gear is often better than that of the general population, and they can usually be counted on to know the 5-man fights. For most people in this category, this is their main.
- Professionals Main-spec tanks in 5-man content. For whatever reason, they're not raiding, and the quality of their gear is necessarily restricted to badge and crafted pieces (granting them less margin for error with threat versus more geared DPS), but they know the 5-man fights. For most people in this category, this is their main.
- Apprentices Beginner to intermediate tanks still learning the dungeons, mobs, and pulls (and developing the sixth sense necessary to anticipate when that mage jumping around in the back is going to blunder into a patrol). This may or may not be a main character and/or reroll.
- Mercenaries Off-spec tanks. These are druid, warrior, paladin, and death knight players who have a DPS or healing main spec and reserve their secondary spec for tanking rather than PvP. May or may not be a main, and their experience with tanking runs the gamut from Apprentice to Raiding Professional/Professional level.
- Opportunists Just what the word implies -- players who tank in order to take advantage of some external incentive, not because they're particularly enamored of the role. Nowadays, as our commenter Snuzzle observed, the only reward for tanking is an instant queue. Of the five types of tank here, most likely to be an alt.
Why do any of these folks queue through the dungeon finder now?
- Raiding Professionals Beats the hell out of me. If you're in a raiding guild with competent DPS and healers, you're not likely to be pugging through the dungeon finder; the hassle just ain't worth it. It's for this reason that the maxim, "There isn't a shortage of tanks. There is a shortage of tanks willing to tank PuGs" is so commonly repeated on the Tanking forums to DPS exasperation over queue times.
- Professionals Valor points and little else. Like a Raiding Professional, if you're a Professional-level tank and you're guilded, there is no real incentive to run with a dungeon finder group unless you count masochism. Actually, as someone who's spent most of her in-game time alternating between the Raiding Professional and Professional categories, there is even less incentive to queue as a Professional because you run the risk of getting DPS who massively outgear you. Tanking for people who have a significant gear advantage over you is a slum and always has been.
- Apprentices The need to get experience with a wide variety of groups and dungeons. Naturally, beginner and intermediate tanks capitalize on the rapidity of tank queue times in order to do this.
- Mercenaries A main-spec DPS player is mostly going to pick the tank option to avoid the astronomical DPS queue time if he's not otherwise piggybacking runs off a guild tank.
- Opportunists Ditto, assuming that the toon is guilded.
I would argue that the people most likely to be experienced tanks (the Raiders, Professionals, and sometimes Mercenaries) are less likely to be attracted to present Call to Arms rewards (gold, flasks, and mounts) because these toons are largely mains with no real need for them. One of the great attractions of the tanking role is the ability to solo lesser content, and if you're at all interested in getting dungeon mounts on a tank main, you've had ample opportunity to do this already. More importantly, Call to Arms would also require these folks to queue randomly rather than with their guildies, and that's not an attractive prospect to anyone concerned. Guilds resent the loss of a convenient tank, and tanks resent having to take their chances through the dungeon finder.
To the extent that Call to Arms rewards are attractive, I think they're largely a draw to players who have rerolled a tank class and are "building" a new main or who want to send the BoA reward bags to their main from a tanking alt (e.g., if you're a priest without the ability to solo, say, heroic Utgarde Pinnacle for the Blue Proto-Drake you want but you've got a warrior tank alt). But in an odd way, Call to Arms is kind of a raw deal to a DPS main attempting to do this. Not only does these people still have to do their weekly dungeon runs on their mains for valor points, but they're now tasked with an extra set of runs on a tank alt under the worst possible circumstances -- a random PuG.
I have to conclude that Call to Arms, at least in its present form, doesn't convince existing tanks to pug as much as it attempts to add tanks to the population in the form of alts. So how is this going to work out in practice? Let's see what the DPS queue times look like in a few months.
Should we restrict the dungeon finder to same-server groups only?
This option was suggested frequently in the comments to last week's article. I think players are right to say that this should be an option, but limiting the dungeon finder only to your own realm wouldn't necessarily do much to address queue times on smaller servers. However, I would absolutely jump at the chance to queue for server-only groups. Being able to return to the reputation-driven tanking days of BC without having to spend the time to put a group together would be pretty neat.
Stray observations
- I thought Neirin's comment here was pretty cogent.
- One of the realities drilled into me over recent weeks tanking and healing the new Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman on the PTR is that how demoralizing and humiliating it is to tank for uncooperative groups. I say this as someone who is normally very "up" on PuGs and generally enjoys the dungeon finder and the people I meet there -- but all it takes is one asshat to eighty-six a run.
- I think commenters are largely correct that vote kick is, at best, a clumsy tool for enforcing good behavior through the dungeon finder.
Shifting Perspectives helps you gear your bear druid at 85, tempts you with weapons, trinkets and relics for bears, then shows you what to do with it all in Feral Druid Tanking 101. We'll also help you gear your resto druid.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives, Death Knight
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Reader Comments (Page 6 of 6)
Ramses Apr 20th 2011 3:22PM
Perhaps there should be a flag that a player can toggle. Something to the effect of "I consent to be critiqued". Flagged people can group together. Non-flagged people can be grouped together. But the two cannot mix.
At the end of the dungeon a small check box list would show up for each person. It should be short and have no room for open/unrestricted comments. A tank's critique might be: rate 1 to 5 for "Can hold Aggro", "Respectful Attitude", "Damage Taken". A dps critique might be "Damage Done", "Controls Aggro", and "Respectful attitude". Something to that effect. These numbers can also generate some sort of dungeon rating.
So the second piece would be to try and group people together with similar dungeon ratings. Also, your own rating should affect the weight your input shifts other persons rating. Ratings from fellow guild members should have a low impact (no "men's" club effect). Similar to an arena rating, the higher your own index, then more your feedback weighs in to the other persons total. Then the system should lend towards self regulation. If you want to be grouped with better people, you must perform better in other people's eyes. For example: if you consistently rate low in holds aggro you would be paired with dps who have been rated lower for "damage done". Theoretically, it could give people closer matches in gear level, closer matches in skill level, and closer matches in attitude. again, I took inspiration from Blizzard's own arena rating.
Just a thought.
Feedback system are subject to abuse, but that does not mean they are not useful. If business analysts can work through "bad apple" feedback forms, then it must be possible to weigh the scores somehow.
Just a thought
ObiChad Apr 20th 2011 3:06PM
One point to add to your analysis, many "raiding professionals" are using the tool to get their max valor for the week, especially if they are 10 man raiders who's guild doesn't group much for 5 mans. Now, at this stage, many of those may have all from valor that they need, but some don't, and that will change of course when new valor gear drops in 4.2.
It likely doesn't change the results of your analysis much, but the idea that all raiding professionals just doing their dungeoning with their guild is a bit flawed IMO.
I'm actually curious how much the do all seven in one day changes will affect things.
Elvgren Apr 20th 2011 4:16PM
A Karma system has been mentioned before.
I suggest a system where no loot is actually distributed until the run is done and each member marks a spot on a "run harmony" scale if the run does not qualify as a guild run. 1-5, 1-10? Yes, I realize that's a potentially silly phrase but it's what I can come up with at the moment. Everyone present during the run must choose a value. I base it on the overall run to limit abuse.
If anyone was kicked for whatever reason everyone's scale is auto-marked with a 0.
If the run can't be finished then all participants must check the "run cannot be finished" box. Process continues as if the run was finished.
Values are tracked per user. Position in queues are based on your accumulated values. Ultimate end result ... play nice or don't play. You simply will NEVER get a spot in a queue.
Alternatively you might also allow folks to specify the degree of "Bad Karma" points they are willing to tolerate in a run. Some folks are masochists.
Hard to implement ... very likely. It IS basically like legislating morality ... which is a very mixed bag.
Smashy Apr 20th 2011 4:42PM
As a main toon, main spec prot warrior tank that runs a raiding guild and primarily gets enjoyment from raiding cata content...
Once 4.1 hits, and heroics no longer become a daily chore, my weekly WoW schedule will look a lot like this: Knock out a BH run on Tuesday night to collect 70 VP (and possible get some gear), then knock out 7 random Cata heroic runs as quickly and efficiently as possible (translation: blaze through with my raiding buddies), upgrade my gear if I can, and then feel good knowing that not only I -- but at least half of my raid team -- maxed out our VP, within say, the first 48 hours of the WoW week.
Now I can run my guild and raid w/o worrying about a random heroic for the rest of the week.
Also, it seems to me that two dedicated tanks could (and should) be able to maximize the VP earned by an entire 10 man raiding team each and every week -- without ever needing to pug.
Now, if two guild tanks can say, "hey gang, we'll make sure the team maxes out our VP potential from heroics early each week", it's not too much to ask for the rest of the guild to cover farming for flasks, which are the only other meaningful reward from this proposed solution -- not to mention the guild cauldron perk.
The change from a daily heroic to "first 7 heroics in a week" should remove the "raiding professionals" from the random dungeon queue entirely. Maybe cash strapped tanks will play a RNG game for flasks and/or money, but I'd imagine that's a short term solution to a short term problem at best.
My point being - unless I'm missing something here, I don't think the quality of heroic RDF groups *at the cata level* will improve. But, I can see this increasing the number of total tanks given enough time, as well as helping the more painful queue times of older content as these new tanks level up. But for cata level content, I think an entirely different change removes quality tanks the pool, which will increase frustration, which will ultimately decrease enjoyment and increase queue times -- not decrease queue times.
Eliuddin Apr 20th 2011 5:05PM
Allison, you're one of the few web journalists to use "enamored" properly, thank you. Great article, too.
Scrapulous Apr 20th 2011 5:05PM
"But in an odd way, Call to Arms is kind of a raw deal to a DPS main attempting to do this. Not only does these people still have to do their weekly dungeon runs on their mains for valor points, but they're now tasked with an extra set of runs on a tank alt under the worst possible circumstances -- a random PuG."
I see this as a good thing, to be honest. DPSers who do this will learn some things, like, perhaps, how ugly an experience tanking for a PUG can be, or how unhelpful it is to be blamed for losing aggro when you're doing everything you can to hold it, or how much harder it can be to take and hold aggro when the DPS won't let you be the first person to draw it. Tanking for PUGs has improved my DPS game immeasurably, because I now know what tanks need for various encounters, and I know how to recognize when I'm over-aggroing, and I know which mobs to drop first to keep the tank's life as easy as possible.
Katherine Apr 20th 2011 7:20PM
I wish they'd let us kick more often. Sure, you end up getting kicked more often, but I'd rather deal with this than people who feel like they can be asshats no matter what because they know you can't kick them. So you're left with people who sit at the dungeon entrance because they've decided they don't like you but don't want to leave/get kicked because it's a 45 minute wait for them, and tanks that leave at the drop of a hat because they know they won't have to wait for their next dungeon and it's better than carrying that facepulling, cc breaking, aggro whoring, slur talking assclown that seems to be in every other group that the rest of the group wants to boot too but can't.
Shryndael Apr 21st 2011 11:14AM
I learned to tank in Wrath. OMG can I ever agree with you on those first-story super-ganks. Those mind flays were astronomical. Let's not even go into Magister's Terrace. Ended up in there once with no CC. None. How the heck?
I prefer these heroics to the Wrath heroics. I just don't PuG on my tank because I'd rather tank for my guild AND because people suck.
There is nothing wrong with class design or dungeon design. People - mostly dps but not just dps - got used to getting everything for free.
1kmonro Apr 21st 2011 12:57PM
I've never played a tank and currently play mainly healers and some dps. I am a level 85 raid-geared healer who used to enjoy 5-man pugs. However, I can't tell you how many tanks I've run into lately who want to just run thru the dungeon - perhaps to prove their prowess without cc's. If, as a healer, you ask them to slow down, or to cc, you often get insulting remarks like "learn to play, you shouldn't need cc". Or, "you wouldn't need to drink if you knew how to manage your mana". These are only a couple of the nasty things that have been said to me and many of my healing friends.
I believe that we are mainly getting the last two types of tanks you mentioned and many of them seem to have a god complex. Those in the apprentice category are often helped to learn by their guilds and therefore aren't running pugs. I am VERY discouraged and don't see this reward system attracting many good people.
tmenssen Apr 21st 2011 11:36PM
I think I have to agree with Allison's assessment. While I've been playing since vanilla, I started tanking in Wrath and loved all it entailed, but was thrilled with the prospect in Cata of things becoming more challenging and have really loved the challenge, and have really enjoyed myself so far this expansion.
The first thing I did, however, was get myself into a guild of active players who all help each other run daily heroics. I run with my brother and his friend who dps for me and each of them are dependable with their CC so I know even if it's just the three of us the dungeon has a good chance of going well. I'll run three to four heroics a day for guildies and have very little wish to run a completely PuG heroic, and the Call to Arms system is really giving me little to no want to do so.
jordanmcguigan Apr 23rd 2011 12:42AM
I have three "mains", basically my level 85s that I actually play. So while my DK can solo content, I only collect vanity content on my original main, my priest. So as an experienced tank, raid leader, healer, ranged DPS, and competent player (despite not finding much time to raid in Cata) I will probably do my Random heroics more often to get valor points and the potential of BoA rewards for my main (the bag will be BoA), or at least more consistently (7 per week). However, I may only do them on weekends, as I'm currently in a situation where it is best for me not to join a new guild, due to time commitment elsewhere.
Zee Apr 24th 2011 8:16AM
I'm a raiding professional and I use the lfg all the time not because I don't have a guild but because I remember how I started in BC as a tank and how hard it was in wrath to get a group as a dps (when I felt like dps'ing). So I try to contribute to the society by running the lfg and let the dps with a tank os take the gear. It means there will be one more geared tank in wow.
Just thought I'd add this as it says they don't know why we would run hc 5 mans