We got Garrosh as a leader, surely that's punishment enough?

I thought your "fair compensation" was when *&%$ing CAIRNE BLOODHOOF died. The Horde already lost one great leader, and we can't seem to get rid of the pain in the ass that is Sylvanas; what's yer problem with Thrall?

I would say that in order for Thrall's death to be "fairly compensated" by your standards that Varian Wrynn would need to bite it, but unfortunately that would be doing the Alliance more favors than harm.

Hmph... sorry to be a jerk, but that comment really rankled.

As an Alliance player, I staunchly disapprove of this statement.

Saying you want Thrall to die is like a Horde saying they want Velen dead. Thrall is the best chance of reaching a reconciliation between the Horde and Alliance, and without that reconciliation, the Horde will crush the Alliance. That. Is. Fact.

If you want a Horde leader to die for compensation (Which doesn't even exist with Cairne being dead), then at least hope for Sylvanas, she's the one who would really tip the balance in the war with her plague.

I can't uprate your comment enough, Drack... would that I had your patience and simple eloquence!

For the record, I do apologize for my hostile attitude. I'm not even that huge of a Thrall fan... don't get me wrong; I think he's awesome as many others do, but he's just not one of my "OMG *UBER* FAVORITES!".

... but Cairne IS. And I took such offense at the original comment because his attitude that SOMEONE needs to die to make it "fair" shows complete and utter disregard for the fact that Cairne DID.

I'm sorry I made an immature ass of myself in trying to convey that opinion, but I do still feel Cairne deserves recognition and respect. We Tauren acknowledge and sympathize with the Dwarves' loss; we appreciate the same courtesy in return.

Drack you're what I like to call a Hordie in Alliance clothing. F### reconciliation with the Horde. Justice for Southshore and Gilneas. I'd rather the Alliance die in a blaze of glory than let those murderers go free.

Considering how badly Thrall screwed over the Alliance AND the Goblins in the Goblin starting zone, I have half a mind to let him stay dead myself.

I'm chiming in to echo Drack as well since I can't upvote him anymore. ;) Oh and NO ONE would accuse me of being a hordie-lover Sports72Xtrm. LOL

Are we just supposed to pretend that all of this conflict is actually doing exactly what the Burning Legion wants, weakening us both? There is a reason all the BIGGEST bad guys and their minions WANT us at each-others throats.

@Sports

I'll take that as a compliment, I'd hardly want to be a part of what you think the Alliance is supposed to be about. Southshore and Gilneas were the actions of Sylvanas and her Forsaken, and they're on thin ice with the rest of the Horde as is.

And if we're going to start getting into "Faction X did evil action Z to Faction Y" then perhaps I should point out the enslaving of the orcs? Taurajo? Trying to capture Thrall, this world's only hope? Varian was just as ready to enter this war as Garrosh was, don't be blind.

And as Dreyja said, fighting each other only puts victory into the hands of Sargeras and the Legion. The war between the Alliance and Horde is petty, the war between Azeroth and the Legion will decide the fate of the universe.

@Dreyja

Dreyja, you may hate the Forsaken and Garrosh, but reconciling with the Horde as if this war didn't happen is the coward's way out. You're being a coward. What of the Night Elves who died trying to protect themselves from Garrosh's invasion? What of the humans who were experimented on, plagued, became Worgen or undead, because of Sylvannas? What of the soldiers who died fighting for the Alliance's freedom? Was that all in vain? What can we get from peace with the Horde other than another tenuous pact that means nothing to them and will probably break in the future so that more of the Alliance's land and people will die. Alliance who act like once Thrall is warchief again, things will go back to sunshine and rainbows are either naive or cowards. And I hope the Alliance has the balls to keep fighting the Horde until they're dismantled otherwise, the Alliance might as well submit their lands to the Horde right now.

@Sports

This war only accomplishes death on both sides, and even if one side eventually wins, whether it be Horde or Alliance, we will have become too weak to fight ANY threat. Deathwing, The Old Gods, The Burning Legion, A Fluffy Bunny, it doesn't matter, we'd lose. Then how many lives would be lost? Would you have millions of innocents die for your petty version of "justice"? Then you are no better then the Horde you hate.

@Drack

Thank you for proving my point. Any "Alliance" who spout Horde propaganda like that and points out that he plays Alliance to make himself look "unbiased" is a hordie in alliance clothing. Speking of the Alliance capturing Thrall in the Lost Isles, I still haven't found irrefutable evidence that Varian or the Alliance was behind that attack. And seeing as the Twilight's Hammer are the one's who are gunning for him, it smells more and more like Twilight Hammer's plot by the second.

And the feeling is mutual. I don't want you to associate yourself to the Alliance as you're submissive demeanor towards the Horde is similar to Lord Godfrey turning over Genn to the Forsaken because he thinks he can save Gilneas that way. That's cowardly traitor talk.

@Drack

Thank you for proving my point. Any "Alliance" who spout Horde propaganda like that and points out that he plays Alliance to make himself look "unbiased" is a hordie in alliance clothing. Speking of the Alliance capturing Thrall in the Lost Isles, I still haven't found irrefutable evidence that Varian or the Alliance was behind that attack. And seeing as the Twilight's Hammer are the one's who are gunning for him, it smells more and more like Twilight Hammer's plot by the second.

And the feeling is mutual. I don't want you to associate yourself to the Alliance as you're submissive demeanor towards the Horde is similar to Lord Godfrey turning over Genn to the Forsaken because he thinks he can save Gilneas that way. That's cowardly traitor talk.

@Sports

Godfrey attempted to sacrifice an innocent for his own selfish wants, not stop a war and prevent more innocents from dieing. I'd hardly call us the same.

And I was not "spouting Horde propaganda". Those are facts, they happened. The Horde has commited equal acts. My point was that no side is better then the other.

And as for the "no proof that that was actually Alliance" The fact that the agents had SI:7 badges, Allaince uniforms, and Alliance aircrafts prove that. The Twilight's Hammer is devious and organized, but not enough to pull something like that off.

@Drack
Drack have you ever read Vol'jin's short story, "The Judgemet"? I'm like Vol'jin, I stand up for something I believe in, even if it leads to struggling and pain. The Alliance is a choice. It isn't your personal army to chose who your enemies are. It's a lose coalition of mutual defense. And the Alliance has been assaulted by the Horde. It is the foreign policy of any good self respecting coalition to fight any enemy that attacks it's member states until the Alliance is justly compensated and that threat is neutralized. You may feel it's petty but I feel it's justice and if anything, at least they fought for something they believe in, whether they win or lose. If you don't want to fight the Horde...pull out of the Alliance. But the thing that keeps the Alliance together, is dismantling the mutual threat of the Horde. And I hope to god Blizz does not rob the Alliance of that.

@Drack
The Twilight's Hammer managed to frame Garrosh and the orcs for the attacks on Ashenvale. They managed to turn the Alliance and Horde against each other at the Theramore Summit. What makes you think they wouldn't be able to impersonate SI:7?
Put aside your fierce hatred of Varian. Put aside that you think he's the president of the Thrall hate fan club and ask yourself, what does the Alliance have to gain by kidnapping Thrall? It's not going to stop Garrosh, one orc isn't above the entire Horde in the "Victory or Death" Mentality. How did the Alliance know that Thrall would be there in the middle of nowhere? The Lost Isles is uncharted, how did they know Thrall was going to pass through there? http://www.wowhead.com/item=49090 This insinuates that the captain of the Draka's Fury, the vessel that was assigned to protect Thrall, was acting suspicious.
Now tell, does that at the very least not seem suspicious to you?

@Sports

The threat is nuetralized when a reconciliation is met. Yes, the Horde could betray it, but the Alliance is just as likely to do so. You hurt more people then you protect by lengthening this war.

I also can't help but notice your avoiding the whole point of The Legion destroying the world if this war keeps on. Surely you can't just ignore the immense threat that looms in our own backyard.

I will say, though, I admire your dedication to what you think is right, even if it has blinded you. And yes, if I could defect from the Alliance, I would. I am a Knight of The Ebon Blade and Draenei first and foremost, and that's where my loyalties lie.

@Drack

What's there to avoid? The Burning Legion will be dealt with just like every other threat in Azeroth. Whether that calls for a temporary, key word, temporary truce and all that stuff remains to be seen. Or it can be like it is now, the Alliance and Horde fighting each other while also killing the Twilight's Hammer. They'll be dealt with. But you are sadly mistaken if it means anything but postponing the war because imo, the only way this is going to end is if the Alliance has Lordaeron again and Alliance forces are stationed in Durotar.

@Sports

No, I'm not THAT naive. ;) I know perfectly well this war won't fully end without one side or the other being defeated, as much as I'd prefer that to not be so.

But, yes, a temporary truce will be needed to defeat the Legion. Twilight's Hammer? Probably, not absolutely, though. But the sooner we get a truce, the quicker we can deal with the real threats, and then you can bicker away without having to worry about Sargeras/Deathwing/Old Gods decimating you in the process.

@ Drack and Sports72Xtrm:

Kahless himself said, "Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory. Ending a battle to save an empire is no defeat."