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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
5-07-2011 @ 6:52PM
Therinor said...
I totally agree to that article, and I have commented before on the reasons why I dont tank PUGs anymore, which are pretty much described in the article.
I do like ElderTankre's attitude as well, and its nice to think that way, but I think there is a limit to it. Example: last week, I talked about queueing with my low lvl pally and running a lvl 15 or so instance with a PUG. Two mages in there, from the same guild, and they were pulling like crazy, pulling adds etc. Everytime I ran towards a new mob, Id see frostbolts fly by, and yes, it was challenging to get aggro on those mobs, and to take over the adds etc.
At first, it felt like extra-training, but it started to become a) stressful and b) frustrating when one of those mages started complaining about me not taking aggro fast enough (not always easy when they blast away at adds... not only pulling them, but building up serious TPS before I even got a chance to get to them). And yes, Id love to go "oh, cool, nice training", but if it gets to the point where people just go nuts and expect me to protect them and just tag along, picking up aggro on everything they pull, it stops being fun.
It happens a lot in low lvl dungeons, but it does in lvl 85 ones too, and I just dont get it. I mean, is it really the "i wanna beat the recount meter" mentality? Is it the "Ok, I queued, but I only have 10 min of time (or attention span), so I wanna get through this, so lemme pull moar adds"? I really dont know.
Also, I am sure that attitude has caused them to experience quite a few wipes, so I dunno why they dont change?
A guildie keeps telling me that Im too nice, that I should yell at those people and tell them to stop it, to really let them have it, but am I asking for too much when I wish this stuff would stop?
I definitely love the challenge of working with good DPS, I dont mind the rush of keeping aggro on mobs when the DPS put out a lot of DPS, but that ninja-pulling, stand in the fire stuff etc. I can do without.
If those guys would at least ask both the healer and the tank whether theyre ok with it, it wouldnt be as bad, but that "tank, if u dont pull, I will" attitude sucks and takes the fun out of the whole thing.
It can be fun to run instances even with a pug, it can be smooth and fast when people know what to do, use their abilities (I mean the OTHER stuff than the uber-DPS-spells, like CC, threat-reducing abilities etc), and watch out a little bit to make sure no one gets in trouble (as res or wipes usually slow down stuff a lot), but it seems like that is too much, as if its a totally alien thought that the guys they end up wiht in a PUG are NOT ok with that stuff.
I keep going back, trying to pug, as I love tanking, love the challenge and the role, and every time, it ends in disaster because of ninja-pulling, bad attitude, groups falling apart etc. Maybe its just me, but even when I dont say anything and just play along, it ends in trouble, so I dont queue anymore, as it feels like every time I try again, it just is the same stuff over and over. And no, I dont think its my tanking skills, as there isnt much I can do when some guy in the group leeeeroys it and aggros the boss with the healer being at less than 5% mana...guess its too much to ask for people to at least glance at peoples health/mana whatever before they pull.
Just my opinion though, kudos to all the tanks who stick to it and either are better leaders than I am, or have more patience =)
Reply
5-07-2011 @ 6:55PM
Therinor said...
and sorry for rambling and that whole wall of text! =)
5-07-2011 @ 11:44PM
Cennic said...
I don't really see anything wrong with telling the other people in the group how you feel about it. You don't have to be mean about it. Just being honest would probably go a long way. Worst case scenario is they'll leave (or best case, depending on how you look at it) and you at least have a chance to get someone that actually knows how to handle their dps and are willing to wait for you to gain aggro. I don't tank PuGs anymore, but everytime I get into a group with a dps that has that bull**** "gogogo" attitude, it really gets under my skin. Seriously. If you're in a hurry, this isn't the game for you. There is nothing more evident about playing this game than the fact that it involves a large investment of time. I can understand not wanting to sit around for 10 minutes in between pulls, but trying to pull immediately after a mob dies whether the tank is ready or the healer has mana or not is just plain stupid and almost always counter productive. You wouldn't hit the detonate button on a bunch of TNT while the people putting it into place were still standing right next to it, right? It's the same idea. As far as I'm concerned, you have every right to tell people how you feel about their "performance", especially if yours isn't in question even despite theirs making it difficult for you. Like I said, you don't have to be mean or even aggressive about it. If it were me, I'd just give them an ultimatum. Either they can smarten up and actually be an asset instead of a burden, or I can leave, get an instant queue, and they can sit in their 30 minute queue again. For someone thats in such a hurry, I can't imagine that option will be appealing. Although admittedly, I also wouldn't be surprised if they took it anyway, despite it being a perfect example of cutting off their nose to spite their face. I'm sure that at times they will call you self entitled or a "prima donna tank", but so what? You're not either of those things just because you want the run to go smoothly. You're not implying that you're better than them, you're stating the truth about the obvious (by no fault of your own and that just being the way it is) that you're willing to take advantage of if they can't do what they should be doing anyway.
5-08-2011 @ 5:09AM
Therinor said...
Cennic
Thanks a lot for your reply! TBH, I HAVE tried that, many times actually. Yes, I have been strict a few times, even though I hated the fact that I was forced to start yelling at people... I did, but it didnt work. In the case of the two mages I talked about, I told them that they a) had to stop pulling adds and b) that its harder to take aggro of them if they unload dps on adds they aggro so they have tons of threat before I even get there.
However, I got replies like "Its your job to pull and if you dont, I will".
I have threatened to leave before, and usually, someone would ask me to not leave, and I didnt, only to see the same behaviour by the others continue.
So even though I might not sound like it, I have told people very clearly to cut it out, even it it did make me sound like a primadonna, but it works very rarely in my experience...either they just go on, start to argue forth and back, or try to be more sneaky with their add-pulling etc.
Also, tbh, if I do mark a killorder (and do it quickly), and people totally ignore it, how much more often do I have to remind them to stick to the kill order? Its not that they dont know that you kill skull first, they just simply ignore it, and at that point, its not my job anymore to tell them that it would be better team-work to stick to the kill-order. I guess Im too impatient? =) Lets face it, a lot of those people know what they do,a nd that its not exactly teamwork or easy on tank and healer, and still do it... so why do I have to point it out when they know what they do? it just gets tiring if you have to do it again and again...
Thank you so much for your reply, I know exactly what you mean, and you are right, tanks shoudl speak their mind before they drop the towel, but in my case, I did, and usually got arguments or more of the same behaviour, so Im outta there =)