Officers' Quarters: When raiders hold your guild hostage

In these lean times, guilds need to put up with quite a bit in order to keep a viable raiding roster. Sometimes officers will overlook repeated absences and put aside some of their policies because benching a player means canceling a raid. This situation tends to spiral, as players figure out that they can flaunt the rules without consequence.
Sometimes it even reaches the point that players make demands. I've heard of many such situations, but none as ridiculous as this one.
Hi,
I raid lead a progression 10 man team, raiding nine hours a week since Cataclysm has been released. So far we are doing quite well for progression, but due to two weeks last month where we had one dps team member quit the game without notice we were left trying to find PuGs.
We got so many whispers and in game mail complaining about PuGing that we recruited two dps, a pair of friends. One has become the guild's best dps. Since one of them had only seen the first few bosses, we asked one of our dps if he could sit out for two weeks as a favor to us to let her get some gear and experience. Where we started having problems was when we asked her to sit, with 24 hour notice, out Heroic Halfus and Cho'gall in the second week so the other player could get a chance at his Tier shoulders and chest upgrade since he was the only one who could use them if they dropped. Her friend was not happy that she was sitting out and argued she could use the loot from those two bosses, too.
Hi, Raid Leader. You are right to be both floored and hurt by these players' behavior. What they are asking you to do is not only completely unfair to the player in question, but also a terrible way to run a raiding guild.I was floored. Those two recruits were new to our team and we warned them when we invited them that we were going to be subbing out players to keep eleven people active. Now three players, the two friends included, refuse to be subbed out and want to have only ten people on our team. So essentially they are demanding we drop the player we initially subbed out (who is very raid aware and an awesome player in his own right). Several of the officers were hurt by their response.
We even held a group meeting to further clarify why we need more than ten players, but the three continually shot down our suggestions and they said they would rather not raid one week if someone didn't show than be subbed out. Are we in the wrong here? Is it asking too much to have people sit a raid every few months or so? I really am confused on how to proceed as I know either way there will be further objections and perhaps we may lose a few players, but I refuse to drop my player in favor of those three DPS.
Sincerely,
Raid Leader
The advantages of surplus
Most raiding guilds maintain a surplus of players whenever they can, for some very excellent reasons. With a surplus, you can still raid when one or more players are absent. You can allow people to take breaks to prevent burnout. You can optimize raid comps and loot drops by subbing in and out. And the officers can rest easy knowing that if someone quits the game or the guild, they won't have to scramble to replace that player or, as you did, bring in PUG players to fill the gap.
What these players are demanding runs counter to all of that. It would be one thing if they were asking you not to recruit when you had exactly 10 players. That alone would be bad enough. But the fact that they're asking you to dump someone you believe in is completely over the top.
Stand your ground
Do not give in to these prima donnas. They're trying to hold your guild hostage because they know you'll be in trouble again if all three of them quit. Even so, it's not worth it to appease them.
They may not care if a raid gets canceled, but others in the guild will. If they are so selfish and immature that they can't grasp that -- or all the other advantages I just listed -- then they literally do not belong in a guild, any guild.
There's probably a very good reason these two players were looking for a new guild to join. It's likely that they acted the same way with another guild and eventually left (or were kicked). They aren't going to change their tune. You've done your due diligence to explain the situation to them. Now they can either get on board with it or leave. For me, personally, I'd rather let a guild die than essentially hand it over to players with that kind of attitude.
Plan for the fallout
The two friends and maybe even the third player involved will probably gquit if you give them a flat no. You'll have to deal with that. Hopefully, the remaining members will appreciate your loyalty to the player the others wanted to kick, and they'll stick around while you go back to the drawing board with the recruiting process.
If I were you, I'd actually start recruiting now, because this situation is going to come to a head very soon. And even 11 players isn't really enough in the long term. Plan as if you're going to lose all three troublemakers, and then you'll be prepared when you do.
Whatever happens, you should put an official policy in writing about how many active players the guild should ideally have and how you will sub players in and out. It was a good idea to warn the incoming players ahead of time, even though in this case they didn't seem to heed that warning. However, these sorts of policies tend to have more impact when they are elaborated on a website or a document. Be sure to check out the Officers' Quarters column I wrote two weeks ago about how to manage extra players.
As far as insane demands go, this one pretty much takes the cake for me. Has anyone heard of anything worse than this? If so, tell us about it below!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
Eirik May 9th 2011 7:14PM
Ya, I think guildies going around saying "We've got raid rules, you don't, nyah nyah" would be a little over the top.
kreighund May 9th 2011 8:27PM
I should start looking into being a sub... I have some raiding experience but as a single dad with 50% placement of kids it can be tricky to find a guild that needs someone every wednesday and thursday and every other friday and saturday!
Eldoron May 9th 2011 9:11PM
women, always the women... they're mean, I tell you
Eldoron May 9th 2011 9:18PM
Is it just me or .. don't know, it looks like some raiders had no life. Okay I'm sure we ALL have lives, but being present at all raids is a bit strange. I never imagined a guild with 10 members could actually do 10man raids because everyone is present all the time. Well I guess they only raid between monday and thursday, because frankly, all normal people a weekend night with friends or family every now and then. Or not?
Paciphae May 9th 2011 11:09PM
Just to be clear, DPS aren't the only ones capable of being arseholes. Arsehole tanks and healers are just as common, if not more so; by virtue of their sense of entitlement.
Lipstick May 10th 2011 3:43AM
I'm sad to see so much hate for pairs in this topic! I'm a healer and my boyfriend is a warrior tank with a decent off spec for dps. I have more free time than he does and I enjoy raiding more than he does. Our life circumstances has us living far apart atm, and wow helps bridge that gap in our relationship. On the rare nights he has off from work -- we don't mind pitching in with the guild for raids if they need us both. Otherwise, we spend time by ourselves doing our own thing. We are always willing to run heroics for the DPS in guild which needs it -- and when and if we do raid we're really good at what we do.
When he is on -- I spend my time in game with him. If that means raiding, great. If not -- it doesn't. I swap in for raids when I'm able to raid when he's not on as well.
Many people in this comment thread would apparently hate my boyfriend and I. We don't pull rank for loot -- nor expect loot to be given to us. We raid when we do because enjoy it. We're good at what we do -- but our time in game together is something we choose to spend together.
I frankly fail to see why this is an issue.
Luotian May 10th 2011 11:10AM
Joining in the pair love. I play the majority of my characters as a pair with my sister, and though we don't play those characters separately and I have alts to play when I play alone, we manage to get a long great in our guild.
Mostly, we just have seperate niches. She comes along when we need an extra player to finish a guild achievement, but mostly to help lowbies or when she and I are working on our together alts (currently a tank and healer) or achievements together (loremaster). While I LOVE to do dungeons and raid and, unlike her, don't have school so I can be on a lot more.
There isn't a reason to hate pairs generally. True, I'd be more loyal to my sister than the guild, but I'd also be the first to tell her is she was out of line. Not all of us that play together are bad.
Kaylad May 10th 2011 6:05AM
Heh... I should have added my reply here rather than further up! I agree totally.
rukamich May 10th 2011 9:12AM
[Standard community has got to pewp in the last few years comment]
I'm curious to know if Raid Leader, who I assume is in a fairly-established guild, is friendly with another guild. If s/he is, I would suggest doing what my guild does and set up a chat channel for folks between guilds to communicate, in the event RL's guild needs a position player in a raid (or vice-versa). The guild I'm in has been around and active since almost launch and because we have always considered ourselves a casual guild, we've never fully manned raids with any regularity (at least, my Horde guild is that way. Our sister Ally guild is much bigger and can always fill out raids of any size). We have two "allianced" guilds who share the chat channel with us, and when the subject of raids comes up all three guilds usually can help each other out by filling raid slots.
Perhaps RL should just be blunt, tell these divas that they are not only recent invitees, but on a trial basis and (in the end) cut his/her losses when they leave. I cannot fathom why a leader would sacrifice the guild's happiness as a whole to accomidate a couple of new faces who clearly just want loot immediately, if not sooner. Be tactful and nice about it, but be prepared to find other folks who want to raid and can understand the need to rotate.
CrazyGL May 10th 2011 7:39PM
Recruit someone else now. Don't cave in to any blackmail by raiders. You as the GL or Raid Lead has a responsibility to your team to be fair, equitable and the good of the team is above anyone's specific demands.
You also need to make sure that your loot rules are clear up front and that you don't raid for loot. I set that rule for all our raid teams. All our raid teams get to run autonomously but there are 3 rules that they have to abide by:
1) No abuse of guildies or blackmail for nepotism.
2) You don't run for loot but for fun / challenge.
3) You have to set your rules clearly and make sure that everyone who chooses to run understand them and agree to them.
Each raid lead has their own preference on how they run. One team is rather hard core while another is casual. Their loot rules differ from team to team but it is always clearly communicated up front along with any idiosyncrasies.
Drama and selfishness will kill your raid team.
kaelding2 May 10th 2011 7:38PM
I would recommend planning ahead and make sure that you recruit more people than you think you need.