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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Is WoW inherently sexist?
by Amelia Ramstead 
May 17th 2011 at 8:00AM
We've all heard the arguments. We've seen the plate mail that looks rough and rugged on the human male and then turns into a barely there bikini on the night elf female. We've taken our turns putting bunny ears on all the ladies during Noblegarden. We know the warlock succubus pet and her sexy "come hither" stare. Guys claim to roll female characters simply for the joy of watching them from the backside, while the few who play dwarven women complain about the "bounce mechanics" and think about how uncomfortable that would be in real life. And we just won't even talk about some of the players.
So what's the deal? Is WoW sexist? Is the gaming community itself sexist? Is Blizzard simply conforming to the video game/comic book stereotype of rough-and-tumble men with huge pecs and ab muscles and the super-sexy women who look so top-heavy that they might fall over any minute? (And what the heck is that chain mail bikini actually supposed to be protecting, anyway?) Are you okay with it, or do you feel like something needs to change? Do you think it ever will?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Guest Posts
Reader Comments (Page 6 of 13)
Luke May 17th 2011 8:59AM
I'm just going to say this upfront. I'm a pro-sex feminist, a brother, a son, grandson...
But really, can't we let the topic of bikini armor rest?
Don't get me wrong. If my Orc Warrior could prance through Warsong Gulch pwning noobs in Ysera's Tutu Of Destruction, he totally would. It's just that we've had this discussion. A lot.
ThunderMonkey May 17th 2011 9:10AM
YES. I tend to roll up female characters more often than males. Why? If I'm going to spend hours looking at pixelated butt... I would want it to be female night elf eye candy. I guess that's why they have capes at some point.
Regardless... the art and the designs of the characters are simply a reflection of a male's fantasy. That's how he wants his females to look like and how he wishes he would look like (in regards to the males). How does that explain that the humans tend to look like they're running with a stick up their backside, I don't know.
WaterRouge May 17th 2011 9:23AM
Could you explain your reasoning to me on this argument? The "spend all day looking at a female toon's butt instead of a male" one. Most of the time you aren't looking at your character, you're looking at your environment and what you're killing. When our characters are at a standstill it's mostly when we're doing something with our inventory, looking at some window/tab, or eating/drinking (which our butts are then planted).
Also, how does your personal preference in what you look at mean that the game itself is sexist? Women are "generally" better to look at for men and vice versa or the same sex if that's your preference, but this doesn't mean reflecting this in a game with customizable characters was intended to be prejudice against a certain sex.
ThunderMonkey May 17th 2011 9:27AM
Line of sight, brother.
Line of sight.
It would be one thing if I were to zoom completely in and not see my character at all.
Perhaps you are more gifted than I am and can completely ignore your character on the screen. I guess I need to work on that.
SR May 17th 2011 9:32AM
Turning on your cloak graphics and putting on a tabard is hard?
As a heterosexual male, my reasoning for choosing male characters (especially plate) comes from a different kind of sexism: I'd guess it's called bravado or chivalry or some other outdated concept that every woman seem to spit at. I don't want to hear a female squeak in pain every time I tank a boss, or imagine them getting Decapitated by Mandokir. At least with a male, I know I have a freakin' mass of muscle and bone structure strong enough to justify taking dismemberment-worthy blows.
Personally, when faced with the argument of "Having something good to look at", a small amount of respect is chipped away.
loop_not_defined May 17th 2011 10:15AM
I'm curious how many times this excuse is actually genuine. I'm sure it is in this poster's case, but I know I've used the excuse before back in Vanilla, when I was in a more...uh, "macho" guild. It wasn't true, though. I just like playing a variety of different characters, and males playing female characters doesn't strike me as weird.
ThunderMonkey May 17th 2011 11:03AM
Wow. Make an honest comment and it comes back to bite.
Yes, I have the tabards and the capes. So, I suppose my comment is only valid until I get my first full-length cape and/or tabard.
Although, I have to admit I don't know how girls (and women) put up with the awkward flirtations, pick-up lines, etc. on a daily basis. It has happened to me a few times, and my only thought was: Do all guys really sound and look that stupid? How, many of us have managed to find a mate or a girlfriend must have been a sheer act of luck.
Eldoron May 17th 2011 9:10AM
WoW is sexist? Yeah sure... if you make a fuss about it >_
Vinyl May 17th 2011 2:58PM
Check your privilege at the door, please.
Eldoron May 17th 2011 3:11PM
Hm I see nobody got what I meant... you know if you desperately search for things, you'll sure find them in everything. I remember someone ranting here how dare Blizzard only put male demons in the game, and how dare they not make a female metamorphosis model, and how dare they make the only female demon so sexy (which is obviously to satisfy male dreams).
Btw you can downvote me all you want but my friends know me, you could never hear me repeating those jokes about kitchens and sandwiches... guess what, cause I hate them, and I dislike sexism too. but what the hell
GerardthePriest May 17th 2011 9:13AM
Yes, though as someone pointed out, player/character gender has no actual functional impact on gameplay, which is more than one can say about life (and some other fantasy RPGs).
A better question, though, might be: what would a fantasy world that _isn't_ inherently sexist look like? I'd argue it's impossible to create a fictional world free of the sexual biases of its creators, but that it's nice when people try.
Rylka May 17th 2011 9:13AM
For those that prefer their references typed out rather than behind a link, here is an explanation of the Bechdel test taken from http://www.wordnik.com/words/bechdel%27s%20test
Bechdel's Test is a way of judging movies based on the following criteria:
1) there are at least two named female characters, who
2) talk to each other about
3) something other than a man.
The rule was first introduced to the world by cartoonist Allison Bechdel in 1985 in a comic from her popular strip, Dykes To Watch Out For. According to Bechdel, it should be called The Liz Wallace Test, as her friend actually came up with it. The test, or rather the difficulty in finding movies that pass it, is a testament to the shocking (not really) lack of diversity in Hollywood production, even in 2010.
Jacob May 17th 2011 9:20AM
No. Its not. Stop saying it is. Its an absurd abuse of language to say that it is.
There is absolutely 0 value distinctions between the genders.
Idealized modeling is not sexism. Its just that idealized modeling.
Stop feeding the facile rationalizations for misanthropy.
loop_not_defined May 17th 2011 11:04AM
A video game can be sexist outside the context of player character privilege and model designs. It still requires evaluation, but it's certainly possible, and I don't appreciate your attempt at simplification.
As an example, is the video game sexist or is the behaviour considered lore/canon? You can have a sexist character or even a nation in a video game without the game itself being sexist. Take historical reinactments - it can be considered proper (or rather, period) to act bigoted or sexist, while the people portraying the characters are not themselves bigoted/sexist. Obviously, fantasy games representing more medieval aspects of our history will feature behaviour that is no longer considered proper.
WoWie Zowie May 17th 2011 9:21AM
wow isn't sexist its fantasy. if you want realism go outside.
kriegfury May 17th 2011 9:23AM
I think it's ridiculous how we have to put everything under a microscope these days to find any and all flaws in any person place or thing. It's disgusting that we can't just accept things the way they are as a whole and fix things on a whole rather than looking into every minute detail some random moron has a problem with. Not everyone will agree on everything, this is the nature of humanity and the result of varying societies and social climates. Deal with it.
loop_not_defined May 17th 2011 11:14AM
kriegfury: "I think it's ridiculous how we have to put everything under a microscope these days to find any and all flaws in any person place or thing."
-Because advancing civilization hasn't benefited anyone. Ever. Right?
kriegfury: "It's disgusting that we can't just accept things the way they are as a whole"
-Do you have any idea where we would be now if this attitude was adopted thousands of years ago, or at any point since then?
kriegfury: "Fix things on a whole"
-Please tell me how one fixes things without looking at the details.
kriegfury: "Not everyone will agree on everything, this is the nature of humanity and the result of varying societies and social climates. Deal with it."
-This is the attitude of a privileged person. "Stop making a ruckus, I like how things are and don't care about you."
Revnah May 17th 2011 9:25AM
@Matt: Haha, that's hilarious. At least now you know for sure that you're a guy! Hehe.
@SR: If you don't know what gender a player is, just stick to the gender of the character. The people behind the toon will hardly take offence when THEY chose that character to be a different gender than they are. No issues. The issue begins when people assume that EVERY player, regardless of their character's gender, must be male, because that is demonstrably not the case.
It's not a huge issue, but yes, it is sexist.
Revnah May 17th 2011 9:27AM
Comment fail... sorry folks, this was meant to be a reaction to the people who commented on MY comment further up :-( Sorry, I'll repost it there. Just downvote this one here, please.
Naphtali May 17th 2011 9:25AM
Top heavy female characters? Where? Maybe in the comics, but I don't see any girls so top heavy they might fall over, in-game.
That being said, it displays all male characters in an unrealistic way. You don't hear us crying about it!