The problem with TBC was they nerfed and they added a bunch of new talents and DPS numbers, which lead to the roflstomp. They aren't nerfing it nearly that much it'll probably be closer to the difference in ICC before and after the stacking buff, only people won't even have the extra shiny 25 man ilvl gear to help with 10 man content.

TL;DR: I think it won't be as bad as all that, just go from "tough" to "puggable", but play it and find out.

Anyone with 12/12 is not casual. Sorry. Even if you don't raid 4+ nights, several hours a night, being a part of a guild that can down all the current content is not casual. Casual is people like my old guild who are 6/12, but are okay with that, allow people to be the specs they want, and don't take attendance.

You act like my guild is demanding or something...we only raid 2 nights a week and no one is "forced" into any spec. We have fun with it but we don't go in there unprepared...

I count myself casual because, although we are 12/12, we don't force ANYONE to come or be a certain spec or even take attendance. We're there for the fun of it and honestly this has nothing to do with my comment.

I simply feel nerfing the raids by what seems to about 20% in the benefits that people are going to get with the 4.2 (Elemental Bonds cloak and Hyjal Daily rewards) might be a tad excessive to help people out for raiding.

There's the endless problem with the word "casual" right there.

Way, way, way back in the Vanilla days, Casual/Hardcore actually did refer to time spent, not necessarily skill. Vanilla raiding had a huge time investment need. A couple days a week wouldn't cut it. Not surprisingly, the terms have morphed over time. Casual can mean anything from "limited time" to "just plain bad" these days. Hardcore varies from "works really hard" to "elitist jerk." Depends who you are talking to. And who you are talking about, for that matter.

I define my guild as Casual. We raid 2 nights a week, 3 hours a night. We don't take attendance. We let people spec they way they want. (Unless it would be a serious detriment to the raid, say a fury warrior trying to tank Nef. Or a feral druid raid healing. That's just silly and if a raid is REALLY doing that, you deserve to wipe.) We're 11/12 right now. We don't raid crazy hours. We don't spend the rest of the week farming or rolling alts. Most players have one main. Only 1-2 have raid-geared alts, which we don't require, they just like to play multiple characters.

So we're not Casual because we're competent players? That's ridiculous. We take a very relaxed look at the game. We play to have fun. We don't care if we get to Heroics. We don't play insane hours. We are Casual. We're just not bad.

10/12 normal, raid 2 nights a week, 3 hours a night. I consider our guild casual. Maybe a bit more demanding on progression fights but in general the atmosphere is relaxed. I'd like to see 12/12 before the patch hit and I'm hoping we get there. Had quite a few setbacks since cata came out with losing members. It really does seem like the difficulty was too much for some players. Got some new blood and getting our stride back so hopefully we can wind this up before 4.2.

9/12 Normal. 2 Nights a week, 3 hours a night. I also consider my group to be casual - it seems that 6hrs a week is a common theme for casual groups. Hopefully we can get the last 3 before the patch drops purely because I'd like to see what the fights were like for the other raid teams in my guild.

5/12 currently. Just started to raid in last month, due to RL commitments, same goes for the rest of our 10 man group. Not sure we'll make it before the patch, but as Grokknar, I want to see the raids at the current level as fellow guildies. I think buying T11 with JP may be enough for 4.2, but I do understand why old content can be nerfed.