Ready Check: Who pays for raiding supplies?

Raiding is a lot of work, and it can actually end up being fairly costly. Players often underestimate the overall cost of raiding; between food, flasks, and repairs, it does add up. Beyond that, each new piece of gear that you gain from raiding adds in additional costs through enchants and gems. Further still, some players have to re-spec frequently despite the existence of dual spec, and switching glyphs multiple times every raid can rack up a nice price tag, too.
With such a high cost placed on raiding, who is ultimately responsible for all of it? Early in WoW, the answer was easy. Each player was individually responsible for having his or her own materials. Wrath created a new issue with the introduction of feasts, where a single item could provide for an entire raid group. Now, Cataclysm offers another raid-wide consumable via cauldrons. As these items become available, who is left footing the bill?
The case for raid-wide consumables
Before getting into who pays for raid-wide consumables, let's first talk a little bit about why they exist. Sure, Blizzard introduced these items to us, but is there really a requirement to use them? The obvious factor is convenience. It is far easier to drop a single feast for the raid group than to bother with cooking all of the various different types of food that players need, and it usually takes a little bit less time to wait for everyone to eat a feast than it would for them to shuffle through their bags for food.
The visualization of the feast itself is a perfect reminder to actually get your food buff. Food is one of the few things that players have to constantly use after every wipe. The food buff can sometimes slip your mind, especially if you haven't wiped and the buff just runs out. Seeing a feast down and seeing others eating is a far more efficient cue than having to babble it out over Vent.
When it comes to cauldrons, it's a matter of materials. It takes far fewer raw materials to create a cauldron, which will provide enough flasks for an entire raid (plus a few extras), than it does to have raid members create or purchase their own.
This is really where starts to become an "issue" over using raid-wide consumables. Convenience is one thing, but (especially for flasks) you save a ridiculous amounts of mats and farming time by using feasts and cauldrons, especially once you get all the guild perks. At that point, it's rather difficult not to use them. The question then becomes who provides these materials?
"That one guy"
Every guild has one, and I've even been him once before -- the guildmate who literally spends all of his time farming astronomical levels of supplies that he shoves into the guild bank. These guys are almost the sole reason that the guild has anything in its bank at all, and the rest of the guild seemingly leeches off of them.
Although this seems like such a negative relationship, it usually isn't. These people usually aren't forced into doing this, and they do so willingly; in fact, they probably don't ever need to be asked, at all.
Even so, putting too much of a reliance on any single individual -- regardless of the circumstances -- is not a smart move for any guild to make. You never want to have all of your raiding supplies coming from a single source. If that player leaves, quits, or just stops sending in materials, then your guild is quickly going to find itself in a sticky situation. What's worse is that even though this type of player genuinely doesn't seem to mind their contributions toward the guild, "situations" can come up.
No matter how much he farms, one person simply isn't always going to be able to handle the needs of a massive raiding guild. An off week or break or anything of the sort will cause a noticeable dent in the guild resources. Once that happens even once, someone, somehow is going to turn the situation into a public spectacle. Names will be mentioned, tempers will flare, feelings will get hurt ... it all becomes a massive mess.
The longer you rely upon a single person for raiding supplies, the more you run the risk of creating conflict within the guild. That's something any raider wants to avoid, so you absolutely need to create a better system.
Your fair share
Requiring every active raider to "pitch in" with materials in one form or another is certainly an acceptable way of dealing with the issue. The major issue is one of logistics. First, you have to create reasonable requirements based upon how much your guild needs. How many cauldrons do you use every week? How many feasts? What should be the normal contribution for each raider?
These types of things do actually matter quite a bit, because just as you never want to run out of materials, having too high of a requirement on your raiders will cause you to have far more junk than you could possibly know what to do with. Guild banks have loads of space, but you still don't want that to become excessively cluttered, and you need an easy way to track the contributions of every raid member.
It can be easy to lay down a rule such as "every raider must deposit one flask in the guild bank from their main raiding toon in order to raid," but even that rule is deceptively strict and difficult to follow/enforce. Most raiders don't farm nor craft on their primary toons, which creates the pain of having to mail items to another character and then deposit them into the guild bank. You also have issues when players who don't craft things themselves go out their way to craft them.
I don't have an alchemist myself at the moment, but I do have several herb-farming toons. For me to farm massive amounts of herbs and place them in the guild bank is no big thing, but I don't always have the time or the desire to run around attempting to seek out a flask-specced alchemist.
But with a rule like "one flask," you will end up with people who make mistakes. They'll toss things in on their alts, they'll provide more than you ask for in any given time frame, they'll hand in raw materials instead of a finish product. It will happen. Be prepared to handle these situations.
Other (and better) solutions
There are probably just as many ways that a guild can handle raid supplies as there are raiders and loot methods. All of that aside, I honestly do believe that the method that my current guild uses is the most practical and the easiest to handle logistically.
Whenever the guild bank starts to run low on any particular type of supply, the guild bank starts to buy these items from raid members at base AH prices. For example, if we currently need Flasks of the Draconic Mind in order to make more cauldrons, then the guild bank will pay any guild member for either the materials to make the flask or the flasks themselves at the same average price they would get from simply AHing the item.
The reason that I find this method to be so workable is that it requires virtually no upkeep and no tracking, and it avoids any form of drama or pressure. You will never run into a situation where your main tank wasn't able to meet his contribution quota for whatever reason, yet you have to let him raid anyway, or the whole thing is off. You won't have a problem where one person feels like they are being taken advantage of by the rest of the guild either. Even if only one or two people make all of the guild deposits, they are being amply rewarded for it.
Once the guild has all of the materials that they need for that moment, they merely stop paying out for it. As stock beings to run low again, start buying once more. The entire system is simple, and it allows for your raid to take advantage of the great consumables that Blizzard offers without any of the mess that they can bring.
Funding guild events
Buying materials from raiders is all well and good, as is the use of guild repairs for your raiders, but it all boils down to one simple thing: money. Your guild is going to need gold, and plenty of it. As I said, raiding is really expensive. On a progression night, I can easily spend 200g in nothing but repairs. Now, consider applying that to 24 other raiders, and you're starting to look at over 5,000g per raid night on nothing more than repairs.
That is some serious change right there. In fact, I would say that raiding costs have scaled rather disproportionately over this raiding tier.
Heroic raids offer lucrative rewards to players, generally averaging over 125g to each raider on a boss kill. Once your raid is able to kill two or three heroic encounters with relatively few wipes, then you'll actually start making some money by raiding. Prior to that, however, you'll easily spend far more than you make. Regular raids don't provide near the same amount of coin as heroic encounters do, yet guilds can initially struggle on them just as much as they would heroic content.
You can use trade professions and the AH to make a really heavy profit. In fact, gaming the AH is a ridiculously well-paying skill to have in WoW, but guild banks can't really play the AH. Instead, they have to rely exclusively on player donations and the trickle gold from perks. The new guild challenges certainly assist in this, although they are a bit tricky themselves.
The raid challenge provides 500g, which is only really going to be enough for one serious night of progression raiding. The dungeon rewards are nice, quick, and easy to get, but often the more serious raiders don't bother with heroic runs any more -- they don't need the valor or justice points, or the gear, so why bother? And certain guilds (such as mine) don't really PVP.
If you plan on using guild resources to fund raiding, then you need to have a plan on how you will get that funding. BOE raiding drops provide a very nice sum of money, but those are only an option once your own guild members have them all and you actually get them to drop. The small trickle is nice, and it does add up quite a lot over the long run, but unless you are in a large, highly active guild, then it alone won't be enough, either.
A "standard" raiding guild that has around 50 to 60 members can probably rely exclusively on the trickle coin to supply themselves; a more exclusive guild probably won't. A small guild focused on 10-mans that has around 15 players just won't be able to support itself this way initially; you will need something extra.
Selling off extra BOE items, extra raiding supplies, and possibly extra enchants or enchanting materials is a great way to earn some additional capital if your guild needs it.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Felix_rew May 27th 2011 7:09PM
What our guild does for raiding materials is we put on a weekly contest to see who gets the most mats that we need, we work it out at 2g per Cata herb that people hand in, everyone gets paid for their time (although less than they would from putting it on AH) and mats go to the guild :)
Dreadmist May 28th 2011 3:02PM
Our raiding guild handles that problem quite easily. We use the EPGP system for our loot distribution - in a nutshell, you get EP (effortpoints) for raiding (start of raid amount, certain amount ever fewminutes during raid, end of raid amount, and boss kills with modifiersfor progression vs. farm kills) while GP (gear points) are acquired bygetting gear. You PR (priority) for a given item that drops iscalculated by EP/GP - thus EP increases PR, GP decreases PR. BTW ifyou are looking for a great, fair loot distribution system, I wouldhighly recommend it, it works great for our guild (which is now 6/13heroic 25 man) - google them and read more about it. In regards to raid materials, our guild uses the EPGP system to handlethe problem very easily. Each week, we are allowed to donate amaximum of 2 stacks of select herbs (namely those required for guildflasks) as well as volatile life, with a small amount of EP beingawarded for each stack. The same goes for fish (ones required forfeasts), and a max 500g donation per week. When the guild bank becameclogged with fish, the GM gave us a 1 week notice that fish would nolonger be accepted, and fish donations later opened up again as themats were used up. The amount of EP is not massive, but it gives anice boost to raiders who farm or buy the mats. It provides incentiveand ensures that we always have plenty of feasts, flasks and repairs(each raider gets 200-400g in guild repairs, depending on rank). Guild perks and selling BOE's serves to add a bit extra to supplementthis, and our guild never lacks for essential raid mats (and if youare serious about progression, feasts and flasks are in factessential). Our guild hasn't done this yet, but you could easily extend EP rewardsto gems, enchanting mats, potions, and much more - I think our guildhas avoided this just so that it doesn't unfairly favour those whohave loads of cash to buy all of these materials every week. Of note, my previous guild had one person farming a ridiculous amountof mats for our guild bank, and so we had everything from feasts toflasks to potions provided free. However, when Blizzard bannedthousands of accounts for botting a few months ago, our guild farmermysteriously disappeared...that is one of the dangers of allowing oneperson to be in charge of that =PEPGP awards are a very innovative way to prevent burdening one or afew people with the task, encouraging everyone to pitch in andensuring there are plenty of mats for all.
Dreadmist May 28th 2011 3:05PM
Please downrate my previous post - the formatting and spacing went all wonky!
Our raiding guild handles that problem quite easily. We use the EPGP
system for our loot distribution - in a nutshell, you get EP (effort
points) for raiding (start of raid amount, certain amount ever few
minutes during raid, end of raid amount, and boss kills with modifiers
for progression vs. farm kills) while GP (gear points) are acquired by
getting gear. You PR (priority) for a given item that drops is
calculated by EP/GP - thus EP increases PR, GP decreases PR. BTW if
you are looking for a great, fair loot distribution system, I would
highly recommend it, it works great for our guild (which is now 6/13
heroic 25 man) - google them and read more about it.
In regards to raid materials, our guild uses the EPGP system to handle
the problem very easily. Each week, we are allowed to donate a
maximum of 2 stacks of select herbs (namely those required for guild
flasks) as well as volatile life, with a small amount of EP being
awarded for each stack. The same goes for fish (ones required for
feasts), and a max 500g donation per week. When the guild bank became
clogged with fish, the GM gave us a 1 week notice that fish would no
longer be accepted, and fish donations later opened up again as the
mats were used up. The amount of EP is not massive, but it gives a
nice boost to raiders who farm or buy the mats. It provides incentive
and ensures that we always have plenty of feasts, flasks and repairs
(each raider gets 200-400g in guild repairs, depending on rank).
Guild perks and selling BOE's serves to add a bit extra to supplement
this, and our guild never lacks for essential raid mats (and if you
are serious about progression, feasts and flasks are in fact
essential).
Our guild hasn't done this yet, but you could easily extend EP rewards
to gems, enchanting mats, potions, and much more - I think our guild
has avoided this just so that it doesn't unfairly favour those who
have loads of cash to buy all of these materials every week.
Of note, my previous guild had one person farming a ridiculous amount
of mats for our guild bank, and so we had everything from feasts to
flasks to potions provided free. However, when Blizzard banned
thousands of accounts for botting a few months ago, our guild farmer
mysteriously disappeared...that is one of the dangers of allowing one
person to be in charge of that =P
EPGP awards are a very innovative way to prevent burdening one or a
few people with the task, encouraging everyone to pitch in and
ensuring there are plenty of mats for all.
Dreadmist May 28th 2011 4:49PM
P.S. My guild, Requiem (US-Azuremyst) is always looking for skilled players...you can join knowing that raid mats are covered!
Kuro May 27th 2011 7:19PM
Consider using Fortune Cookies for your individual or raid buffing needs. I've found that they're cheaper to make if you have your own scribe. There's a bonus as they use less bag space taken up for dual spec classes with diff stat needs and there's no annoying fishing required.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=62649
Tyler Caraway May 27th 2011 8:06PM
I love Fortune Cookies, I always keep at least a stack on me at any given time, but, as I recall, they actually aren't the go-to food.
It may only be certain fights, or perhaps a gearing issue, I seem to recall that our tanks wanted mastery food which a feast, or in this case a fortune cookie, wouldn't provide. I believe it gives dodge instead? Not entirely sure, I just remember that there were some cases where our tanks were not eating feasts but using their own food instead. If that does happen, then Fortune Cookies wouldn't work for them either.
Helston May 28th 2011 5:29AM
You're right Tyler. Fortune cookies and feasts give all tanks dodge, but warriors (and probably some of the other tanks too, I don't really know) prefer mastery, so we use Lavascale Minestrone.
That's right, Lavascale Minestrone. Made with Lavascale Catfish. You know, that fish that is needed for the feasts, but can't be fished from pools. Those things can get darn expensive.
Rob47 May 27th 2011 7:24PM
In my guild (Jikininki 20 Bronze Dragonflight EU - Recruiting shield tanks and rogues) cauldrons are provided by active raiders if you want a raid spot you're expected to contribute we have lots of alchemists.
Food is your own concern as is anything else. Also people aren't allowed to charge raid members fees for crafting and enchanting stuff.
Each raider gets a weekly allowance of 50g for repairs but if it's gone it's gone, this is paid for by selling boe epics and guild challenges (which all members are expected to help with)
Mylozen May 28th 2011 2:09PM
Wow I don't understand cheapskate guilds. The leaders must be stealing gold. My guild pays for repairs, food, flasks and even enchants for our raiders. Repairs are on all the time and the amount is increased depending upon your rank. The guild is still flush with cash, I even award bounty awards for a first kill if a particular fight if it is giving us trouble. On our first nef kill I awarded everyone 1k. But I keep nothing for myself. The only thing I require is all raiders bring pots
Twill May 27th 2011 7:28PM
Guild perks cover feasts and repairs (100g per day).
Everyone brings a flask for cauldrons.
^ Covers everything for us
Tyler Caraway May 27th 2011 8:03PM
Interesting. I would assume that all of your healers use the Int flask then? I know that it is more common now than it was at the start of raiding, but there's still something of a choice that can favor Spirit. -- in which case, those flasks, while provided by a cauldron, aren't used to make them.
Twill May 27th 2011 8:16PM
Druids and Paladins use Intellect flasks or they are doing it wrong, that's for sure. Priests are definitely safe using intellect as well, however I don't know about shaman.
Either way, yes my groups healers use the int flasks.
Also --Spirit flasks are not provided by cauldrons. And I love your articles :D
As much as I love/hate Eclipse... the best thing for a Moonkin is a Heroic leap-ish ability that allows us to fly for like 8 seconds at 100% movement speed. That's all I can think about >:D
Erik May 27th 2011 8:17PM
If healers are using Int flasks, they are probably doing something wrong, or their raid takes way too much damage and/or time to kill the boss. Int has such a large impact on mana pool, regen, and throughput that it's hard to justify getting that huge spirit boost instead.
You can also reforge into Spirit, which you cannot do for Int, so it would seem like a wiser move to reforge for extra Spirit if needed (losing stats like Haste/Crit/Mastery), and then still getting a nice chunk of Int from your flask.
Twill May 27th 2011 8:18PM
Ohhhh and a Tornado that we can spawn that works like a Mage's flame orb.
It picks people up and tosses em around like the 1st boss in Throne of the Tides :D
Erik May 27th 2011 8:18PM
Er, if healers are using SPIRIT flasks that is. :)
gewalt May 28th 2011 9:12AM
if your healers are using spirit flasks, you need to find new healers.
winterhawk May 27th 2011 7:32PM
My raid team sold a bunch of BoE epics that none of the raiders needed, and that money went into an alt bank (our guild has a bunch of separate raid teams) to purchase things like cauldrons. Whoever on the team wants to supply them just sends a bill to me, and I send them money from the alt bank. It's worked out really well for us so far, and since we still have over 70K sitting in this bank, it should work for the foreseeable future. (We've since started splitting up the money from the sale of BoEs since we really don't need more cash on hand).
Tyler Caraway May 27th 2011 8:10PM
Oh, my personal guild is much in the same position. We've gotten such a ridiculous amount of money from the sale of BoE gear that we're pretty much set for quite a while on anything that we'll need.
Not every guild may be as lucky, nor is every guild as progressed. BoE gear is a fantastic way to supply a guild, it really is, but you can't always assume that it is going to be there. We may have seen 10 billion tanking guns, but I think we've only seen two of the wands drop. Some guilds may not have seen much of anything at all, while others simply may not be progressed enough to where they can rely on BoE items for their income.
Diablo May 27th 2011 7:58PM
How about taxing the raid members that get the good loot drops to pay for the next raid supplies or otherwise pay for the consumables and maybe even for the ppl who got no drops that run, will avg out
Anony Moss May 27th 2011 8:25PM
We actually have offnight "GDKP" raids (or Gold DKP) where all items are bid on with gold. There's a minimum bid amount and bid increase amount.
At the end of the night the total gold spent has the cost of mats for the evening removed, and then is divided among all those who were there. This way: 1) feats/cauldrons are covered - people only pay for their own repairs; 2) if you've got enough gold, you can guarantee you'll win an item if you really want it; and 3) everyone walks away with gold, so if you don't have gold you can contribute your time to earn some. Note that this only works if players are either competent (pull their weight, and then some) or have large sums of gold (may be under-geared/performed, but supply sums of money to others). It also works far better in 25-mans, as in 10-mans you'll find more items going for minimum bids (in 10 mans you need a high minimum bid in order to generate real revenue).