Officers' Quarters: The constant complainers

Just about every guild has its complainers. The bigger your community, the more you'll have to deal with members who think you're single-handedly out to drive the guild into the ground, and they are the only ones standing between you and wholesale destruction. Perhaps I'm overdramatizing, but sometimes it can certainly feel that way. Some complainers can be positively relentless.
This week's email comes from an officer who's afraid the complaints are about to force his guild leader to take drastic action.
Hey, I'm an officer of a medium-sized raiding guild that currently has two 10-mans and working on getting a third. During ICC we had three 10-mans, which we will call A, B, C and a 25-man [...] When we began raiding, we only had enough raiders to form one 10-man Raid A. Two months later, we got enough people to form another raid B, and a few weeks after that we form the last one Raid C. Everything was going good, all the raids where progressing [at] a similar pace, we down Lich King a few times, did a few heroic modes, than decided to close down our 25-man raid a few weeks before Cataclysm because of attendance issues.
Than a bombshell dropped, one of our raiders (we shall call him Jon[...]) posted that he was concerned with our move to 10-man raiding in Cataclysm (basically not having a raid). We quickly addressed this issue saying that there would be two 10-mans at least with the possibility of a third, Problem solved, at least we thought. Then one of our [raiders] (who we will call Bob) posted a very long post on forums. He stated that while the GL [...] and I were excellent guild leaders [...] the other officers were effectually a joke. He went on to say that the Guild does not come together on anything, stating the last guild event he considered significant was our last ICC 25-man raid. Stated that during most days there is maybe five people online, "A WoW guild that does not raid, dies." (Despite us saying that we are done raiding until Cataclysm.) [...]
After many (long) posts and the Leadership of the guild explaining their stance or addressing his concerns we found out what the problem was. He didn't like the fact there was an "A team" or progression 10-man raid. Which there wasn't, Raid A just started two months before the other ones. So the officers got together for Cataclysm and decided on raid rosters that divided up the officers and "core" players into fairly equal groups. Everything is hunky dory. Or at least we thought.Wow, if the level of complaining has reached the point that your guild leader is talking about quitting the game over it, then it's gotten pretty serious.
A few months later, we now have two 10-man raids (we'll call them One and Two), both at about the same point; each having the same number of bosses down, just different ones. Then him and one of his buddies says they are fed up with the lack of progression in their raid (One), and wants a raid with the best players in it to have a "Progression Raid". *head desk*
It was at this point that the GL says to us (the officers) that everyday he logs in, it's some new problem or complaint with or about Bob or Jon and he was sick of it. He is going to give the guild to someone else and quit playing WoW. And it's not just him either, we are all fed up and frustrated with the both of them. But none of us are really big on /gkicking people.
So, To /Gkick or to not /Gkick? Or is there another way?
Anonymous
I can completely understand the frustration of trying to explain your policies to players who don't seem to understand why things can't just always be the way they want them to be. I can also sympathize with the agony of listening to seemingly conflicting complaints from the same source. Neither of these situations, unfortunately, are uncommon in online gaming. Some people just love to complain. They see it as both their right as members and their duty to "improve the guild."
However, you can resolve these situations without walking away from the game.
Regain control
First, don't let the complainers take over your WoW time. If you dismiss them, they'll only bring up the same problems tomorrow. On the other hand, if you indulge them and let them complain whenever they want to, you may find yourself participating in a daily gripe session.
Rather, set up a time with the perennial complainers to hash out their specific issues. Don't overwhelm them with the entire officer corps if you have a lot of high-ranking members. Two or three officers is a good number for a talk like this. It's important to have other officers who can provide a different perspective. Also, if it's just you, then your arguments take on the air of a dictator's pronouncements.
Prior to this meeting, don't let the complainers approach you. Tell them to save it for the meeting, and enjoy your brief reprieve.
Talk it over
Then get together at the designated time and hash it out with these members. If possible, use voice chat software. These types of talks tend to go better when people can hear inflection. Also, voice chat means only one person can speak at a time -- that keeps the conversation from becoming too scattered.
Talk with them about their concerns frankly and explain to them exactly what the officers will and will not do to address those concerns. Try to address as many problems as you can. Let the complainers get it all out of their system.
Be confident during this confrontation but not emotional. It sounds like your guild is doing pretty well overall, so don't let their naysaying and bellyaching ruin your enthusiasm. At the same time, don't be afraid to admit it when they make a good point. Just remember that a good point on paper doesn't always translate to a practical solution.
If you have to turn down their suggestions, do your best to explain why, even if you're already told them in the past. Repetition can be more effective than you might think. Sometimes people have to hear things five times before the information sinks in.
Follow up and carry on
Once you've all heard each other out, take any outstanding issues back to the other officers, make decisions, and then call for another brief meeting to tell them what you intend. At the end of the meeting, explain that the matters at hand are now closed to further discussion.
From here, the complainers essentially have the choice to either stay in the guild without further criticism or to leave. That puts the ball in their court. If they decide to stay, make it clear that you won't listen to more griping. By staying, they are agreeing to the way things have been decided, and they have to accept the guild that way.
The only outcome here where you might need to gkick someone is if a player continues to complain despite everything you've said and done. Give him one final warning. At that point, if he doesn't shut up, you can kick him without remorse. Hopefully it won't come to that!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Kaphik May 30th 2011 2:15PM
Your two complainers seem to be only interested in their own progression, and not the guild's. As soon as you can replace them, get rid of them. Because they will leave as soon as they can find a "better" group.
The Giant May 30th 2011 4:44PM
I wouldn't wait - If that was my guild, I'd boot them so hard, they'd end up on the korean servers.
Noyou May 30th 2011 4:59PM
Anytime a guildy goes out of house to express views on a guild is bad business. When he starts saying the way it's run is _____ then it is clearly time for him to "nut up or shut up" the nutting up being starting his own guild. I am with Giant- boot him so hard he ends up in Korea. Preferably North. It's one thing to whine and badmouth anyone. But to do it in trade or on the forums it's childish, self serving and ignorant. It's very much like a sports figure going to the media and whining about why he's not getting the ball. Just goes to show you there are assclowns everywhere.
Sharlatan May 30th 2011 5:17PM
I agree, Get rid of them now, RIGHT NOW.
Its this crap that made me quit my GL job in a previous guild, and eventually the guild broke up over it.
You cant please everyone, dont try. Take a stance and then stick to it, if you have a position and it sounds like you do, give them a choice, live with it and shut up complaining, or leave. If they complain again, kick them.
A guild survives the loss of member or two, and a strong direction and strong leadership helps. A guidl rarely survives a GL and officers who are unhappy and maybe step down or become uninterested.
Its the GL's guild, its not a committee of everyone. members are that, members, they live by the guild rules and position or leave, they do NOT dictate guild direction.
Finnicks May 30th 2011 5:44PM
/g Jon and Bob, during Wrath you fielded complaints because one of the raid teams was significantly farther ahead of the other, claiming this to be unfair. In response for Cataclysm, we decided to make sure all 10-mans were equal by splitting up the best players, resulting in slower but equal progression.
/g And now you are complaining that we should return to the "A-Team" "B-Team" philosphy, so long as we put YOU on the A-Team, of course.
/g This hippocracy outright demonstrates to us, the officership, that you are far more concerned with your person progression than for the guild's progression and health as a whole. And therefore, it is our opinion that you have no place here.
/g Good bye.
/gkick Jon
/gkick Bob
/g And good riddance, I say!
Xen May 31st 2011 12:04AM
Hippocracy n.
A system of government consisting of rule by hippopotami.
Chris May 31st 2011 2:06PM
We had a problem with two members who did nothing but complain. They complained when they didn't get loot, they complained when a boss didn't get down. Yes they were our top DPS and healer on the charts, but there's so much more to being a good raider than topping recount. The DPS NEVER paid attention to raid mechanics and yelled at healers to heal him through easily avoidable damage then posted DPS (which he usually was on top) at the end of fights.
We got rid of 'em. At the time we usually were 1 or 2 people short completing a roster on any given raid night. We were worried it would end raiding for us. Guess what, we quickly got some new recruits and have since continued progression without those two. Raid nights are a lot more fun, even when we don't get a boss down. We even took in a couple people new to WoW, taught them the ropes and now are some of our most reliable players.
TL;DR: You don't need complainers. Even when they are topping charts. Get rid of them ASAP and recruit some fresh blood with better attitudes. Train them to be better raiders if need be. It's far more rewarding.
Big Shoe Jun 1st 2011 10:27AM
We address the issue of raid progression by not having an "A team," or a "Group 1." Instead, we simply have a Friday group, a Tuesday group, and so on. This way, nobody wonders why they're not on the "A team" and things are more harmonious all around.
That being said, the two pernicious guild mates you spoke of are not team players, and you were right to /gkick them both.
Orrdeath May 30th 2011 2:38PM
In our guild we had people like this. They seem to think there wants are more important than the guilds. They found out quick thats not how we ran things. They wee given warnings, and they persisted to think there ideas were right. Which isnt a big deal, but once they started to cause drama in the guild they were kicked.
If your guild has been together for a long time which it seems it has, is it just a few rotten apples causing the problems? If so, some times its easier to cut off a few apples then letting the whole tree die (bad comparison) But thats what we did, if you complain a lot and don't like how things are ran, your not a good fit for the guild and you shouldn't be here. And of story if they cant except them kick them!
Concordia May 30th 2011 2:48PM
Your spelling and grammar makes my eyes hurt.
Deathknighty May 30th 2011 3:00PM
As a grammar nazi, I truly do not understand what you are talking about. There are a few scattered typos in his post, but otherwise, it reads coherently and fluently.
troll moar
Orrdeath May 30th 2011 3:08PM
O I'll just go and edit my post, nvm the technology doesnt exist. I knew there were error but thanks trolls!
Orrdeath May 30th 2011 3:12PM
Sorry death I meant "troll" and iPhone is not a good typing device!
thedoctor2031 May 30th 2011 3:37PM
Your lack of relevancy to the topic make my eyes bleed.
Harvoc May 30th 2011 5:01PM
@ thedoctor2031
Who's lack of relevancy? Orrdeath or Concordia? I'm assuming Concordia because of your clever "make my eyes bleed" to his "makes my eyes hurt".
JattTheRogue May 30th 2011 11:29PM
@Deathknighty: "As a grammar nazi, I truly do not understand what you are talking about. There are a few scattered typos in his post, but otherwise, it reads coherently and fluently."
Don't want to get into a big thing about it (people have bad spelling/grammar on the internet and there's not really anything you can do about it, so I normally ignore it), but you're not a very good grammar nazi if you saw nothing wrong in Orrdeath's post. Consistent use of "there" instead of "their," using "your" instead of "you're," the previously mentioned typos and misspellings (quite a few), lack of punctuation at many different places ... I wouldn't jump all over a person out of the blue because of bad grammar/spelling/typos in a post instead of responding to the person (unless it was truly atrocious and unreadable, which Orrdeath's wasn't), but I'm not going to defend them with patently untrue statements either. /shrug
Solitha May 31st 2011 2:08AM
/cast Grammar Nazi
"Your spelling and grammar makes my eyes hurt."
It should be 'make', not 'makes'. You might want to reinforce that glass house of yours.
/cancelaura Grammar Nazi
RedderTheEmoDK May 30th 2011 2:43PM
Before the summer is over, the log-on-and-complainers may be your above average members, being more helpful than the no-longer-logs-in-much and the unsubscribers and Rifters.
Fathertouk May 30th 2011 2:57PM
Not sure I understand your meaning here. Are you saying he should try to keep these guys around on the off-chance that they change their tune and fall in line?
I'm all about questioning guild policies or whatever when appropriate, but it sounds like these guys are either being self-centered or just complaining for the sake of complaining, neither of which should be tolerated if it's poisoning guild morale or undermining the leadership. Keeping them on board because a personality flaw MIGHT correct itself is a little much to hope for.
danawhitaker May 30th 2011 8:30PM
@Fathertouk
I think the main point of the OP's post was "Don't burn bridges." This isn't a great time in the state of WoW to burn bridges with players who can raid on your schedule. I, too, would try and work things out with players in my guild before simply kicking them. Trade chat on my server is nothing but a sea of what were formerly the top raiding guilds practically begging for people to join and fill their raids. I wouldn't want to come to a crossroads where I'd burned my last bridges for viable raiders and couldn't raid at all.
I'm a guild leader, but I can also sympathize with feeling a lack of progression like Jon and Bob. Would it necessarily be a terrible idea to mix up the two raids and try to progress further (assuming of course that scheduling would permit that)? I'm sure they aren't the only people in the guild frustrated by the fact they aren't progressing. While my guild has always run one 10 man, and never reached the point of being fully viable to run a second 25 man, when we hit walls in ICC, it was incredibly frustrating. Perhaps the guild leader's complaints about wanting to quit are less about listening to the complaining and also at least partially about having hit a roadblock where there's no progression either. Perhaps they realize there's something to that complaint, and they don't really know how to address it either. In some ways, I'd be happy to deal with this - we're lucky now to have 6-7 players on at once on our raid nights, meaning we never have enough even for a guild group. We lost people to Rift and boredom with the game, even after adopting several of our former PUGs from the Wrath era whose guilds fell apart. If it weren't for them, we'd have exactly three people logging on during raid nights (or any night). We used to raid weekly during the last year and change of Wrath.
Recruiting new members isn't always the answer either, with guild level progression being what it is. Lots of people want the perks that come along with a Level 25 guild, and for smaller guilds, if you don't have those, they're going to pass you by. It may be the guild in question isn't in a position to compete with the benefits other guilds have to offer too. So again, that's more incentive to maybe work with the complainers, and see if there's a mutual resolution.