I wouldn't wait - If that was my guild, I'd boot them so hard, they'd end up on the korean servers.

Anytime a guildy goes out of house to express views on a guild is bad business. When he starts saying the way it's run is _____ then it is clearly time for him to "nut up or shut up" the nutting up being starting his own guild. I am with Giant- boot him so hard he ends up in Korea. Preferably North. It's one thing to whine and badmouth anyone. But to do it in trade or on the forums it's childish, self serving and ignorant. It's very much like a sports figure going to the media and whining about why he's not getting the ball. Just goes to show you there are assclowns everywhere.

I agree, Get rid of them now, RIGHT NOW.

Its this crap that made me quit my GL job in a previous guild, and eventually the guild broke up over it.

You cant please everyone, dont try. Take a stance and then stick to it, if you have a position and it sounds like you do, give them a choice, live with it and shut up complaining, or leave. If they complain again, kick them.

A guild survives the loss of member or two, and a strong direction and strong leadership helps. A guidl rarely survives a GL and officers who are unhappy and maybe step down or become uninterested.

Its the GL's guild, its not a committee of everyone. members are that, members, they live by the guild rules and position or leave, they do NOT dictate guild direction.

/g Jon and Bob, during Wrath you fielded complaints because one of the raid teams was significantly farther ahead of the other, claiming this to be unfair. In response for Cataclysm, we decided to make sure all 10-mans were equal by splitting up the best players, resulting in slower but equal progression.

/g And now you are complaining that we should return to the "A-Team" "B-Team" philosphy, so long as we put YOU on the A-Team, of course.

/g This hippocracy outright demonstrates to us, the officership, that you are far more concerned with your person progression than for the guild's progression and health as a whole. And therefore, it is our opinion that you have no place here.

/g Good bye.

/gkick Jon

/gkick Bob

/g And good riddance, I say!

Hippocracy n.
A system of government consisting of rule by hippopotami.

We had a problem with two members who did nothing but complain. They complained when they didn't get loot, they complained when a boss didn't get down. Yes they were our top DPS and healer on the charts, but there's so much more to being a good raider than topping recount. The DPS NEVER paid attention to raid mechanics and yelled at healers to heal him through easily avoidable damage then posted DPS (which he usually was on top) at the end of fights.

We got rid of 'em. At the time we usually were 1 or 2 people short completing a roster on any given raid night. We were worried it would end raiding for us. Guess what, we quickly got some new recruits and have since continued progression without those two. Raid nights are a lot more fun, even when we don't get a boss down. We even took in a couple people new to WoW, taught them the ropes and now are some of our most reliable players.

TL;DR: You don't need complainers. Even when they are topping charts. Get rid of them ASAP and recruit some fresh blood with better attitudes. Train them to be better raiders if need be. It's far more rewarding.

We address the issue of raid progression by not having an "A team," or a "Group 1." Instead, we simply have a Friday group, a Tuesday group, and so on. This way, nobody wonders why they're not on the "A team" and things are more harmonious all around.

That being said, the two pernicious guild mates you spoke of are not team players, and you were right to /gkick them both.