Encrypted Text: Rogues need to be number one
by Chase Christian 
Jun 1st 2011 at 9:00AM
Back towards the end of Wrath, Blizzard shared with us a lot of information about the then-upcoming Cataclysm expansion. The new 31-point talent trees were unveiled, along with the mastery bonuses for each tree. The mastery bonuses were heralded as the ultimate balancing tool: Developers could tweak these numbers without touching a tree's talents. Mastery would ensure that any given spec could be tuned independently of the other specs.
The concept made sense, as buffing individual talents had a tendency to cause players to just cross-spec into those newly powerful talents. The other option at Blizzard's disposal is buffing talents that are deep in a talent tree, which works well since we can only go 10 points deep into our secondary trees.
In order to buff rogues in the upcoming patch 4.2, the developers have used both approaches. Our assassination and combat masteries are both being buffed by 5%. Deep talents in each tree, like Vile Poisons, Savage Combat, and Sanguinary Vein, are also being improved. Finally, subtlety rogues will see Hemorrhage's base damage improved by 40%, although it remains to be seen how this change affects the spec's viability.
Even with these buffs, combat and assassination rogues are still slated to be well behind most other classes. Rogues are generally middle-of-the-pack in DPS for most tier 11 bosses, and these changes will just make us "less behind." Other classes might ask us why being "average" is so bad. Average might be okay for a hybrid, but rogues need to top the meters -- not for our egos, but by design.
Rogues are struggling
I talked last week about striving toward being the best rogue you can be and letting Blizzard sort out the rest. Unfortunately, while we're working as hard as we can, the developers aren't holding up their end of the bargain.
So what's wrong? The question has been a popular area of discussion on the Elitist Jerks forums, as the conversation on rogue DPS problems was literally dominating three different threads at once. Notable rogue Aldriana even wrote a blog post about the issues, complete with his assessment of the problems and a few suggestions for fixing them. I've heard that rogues just need better AOE and we'd be fine; I've heard that combo points are the problem; and I've heard that our poison ramp-up time is the source of our issues.
The truth is that it's all of these things at once.
It's all Wrath's fault
Take a trip with me down memory lane, back to Icecrown Citadel and the waning days of Wrath. Rogues were performing incredibly well on nearly every encounter in the instance. Everything must've been balanced then, right? If we start to take a critical look at the bosses of ICC, we realize that it was an incredibly simple raid zone. Against Lord Marrowgar, rogues could just focus on the boss while using Fan of Knives or Blade Flurry to cleave down any nearby Bone Spikes. We sat in cannons and nuked enemy hunters while aboard the Gunship. We stood still on Festergut, minus the occasional sidestep to dodge a Malleable Goo. Finally, Saurfang was the ultimate rogue encounter: a short, simple burn that emphasized cooldowns and single-target DPS above all else. The only fight that had us running around and never getting a chance to ramp up our DPS was Valithria Dreamwalker, which was a healer-centric encounter anyway.
The problems that people talk about today still plagued us then. We still needed to stack up our poisons before doing anywhere near reasonable DPS on adds, and our combo points were fixed on our current target, as we didn't even have Redirect to move them around. We simply didn't notice these glaring flaws as much, since nearly every single fight in the tier could be condensed into a single-target burn with a few mechanics to remember. The casters never really had an opportunity to double-DOT two targets or to shoot the boss while we were left helpless. As long as rogues remained competitive for single-target DPS, we could sustain the slight loss of DPS from various mechanics while remaining on top. Single-target dominance carried us through Icecrown and Trial of the Crusader, leaving all of our issues undiagnosed.
We can't even win Argaloth
In Cataclysm, there are no more simple bosses. Every single encounter in tier 11, save Chimaeron, involves target swaps or time spent off target. When we're looking for the simplest fight of the tier, the one that most closely resembles Patchwerk of Naxxramas, Argaloth comes to mind. Rogues can stand behind the pit lord and simply attack away, ignoring the entire Meteor Slash mechanic and dodging the fire patches.
Even on this ideal fight, rogues are still behind nearly every other class on the Argaloth meters, and it's not even close. Right now, the best hunters and the best mages are blowing the best rogues out of the water on a fight that has traditionally been controlled by rogues.
The rogue design philosophy, to this day, has been that rogues will do an unparalleled amount of single-target DPS but that we'll lose DPS as soon as the encounter shifts away from that paradigm. Let's look back to the Wrath model. Rogues were easily doing the best DPS against Saurfang, but our damage was cut if we had to shift to kill an add. Rogues could win the meters against Rotface if we were only sitting still, but we suffered the greatest from having to run out with an ooze following us. Rogues were demolishing Lady Deathwhisper, but we had to expend energy on Kicks to keep her locked down.
It was okay for rogues to do 110% of everyone else's DPS on a single target, because our other weaknesses would drop that down to 100% on anything but a pure tank-and-spank. Our weaknesses weren't flaws; they were harnesses to ensure that we didn't get out of control.
It can't work both ways
When rogues switch to a new target, we're required to build up our Deadly Poison stack from scratch before we do any real poison damage. When rogues switch to a new target, we're typically left without any combo points available once Redirect has been used. When rogues switch to a new target, we lose Bandit's Guile. When rogues switch to a new target, we have to reapply Rupture to activate Sanguinary Vein and Venomous Wounds. When rogues start to use Fan of Knives for AOE, we have to build up our Deadly Poison stack on every mob. When rogues switch targets, we can perform at most three moves for burst before being limited to auto-attacks. When rogues switch to a new target or AOE, our DPS is left in shambles.
Assassination outperforms both combat and subtlety on AOE encounters due to its stronger poison damage, while combat wins any fight with exactly two targets that are both in melee range. The specs have no unity in terms of AOE or target-swapping, which makes them difficult to balance against each other.
Subtlety is clearly behind both specs, yet the buff to Sanguinary Veins still leaves it even further behind combat and assassination after their improvements. The simple buffs to our masteries and a few talents are simply salves to lessen the pain and not an actual fix to the core issue.
Rogues need to either return to the Wrath model of doing amazing DPS but being kept in check by our weaknesses, or we need to see these weaknesses resolved. Arcane mages have zero ramp-up and do significantly more AOE and single-target damage than rogues do. Hunters can apply Serpent Sting to a new target and continue as if nothing ever happened. Warlocks have a bit more to do when swapping, but they get to continue to damage their previous target as well.
No other pure DPS class in the game has the same restrictions for target swaps and AOE that the rogue class does. There's nothing wrong with that, but if rogues are already operating at 90% of other classes' DPS, then we drop even lower when we're ask to do anything non-standard.
The fix
There are a lot of suggested fixes for the issues that we're facing. Our single-target DPS could get better via any number of mechanisms or changes, while our ability to swap targets quickly and AOE down clusters of mobs could also be improved.
Regardless of what the developers decide to do, it's clear that some action is needed. If you've been reading this column for any length of time, you know that I don't regularly call for rogue buffs, and I try to be understanding when we're nerfed. Rogues are the least-played class in the game, and we have been for some time. How is the rogue class supposed to draw in new players when we're getting slaughtered on the meters? Until rogues return to being an asset and stop being a liability, the attrition of rogue players is only going to get worse.
We don't need to win every fight -- but right now, we're not winning any fight.
Check back every Wednesday for the latest rogue strategies, from rogue basics and kicking your interrupts into high gear to how to handle your dual-spec rogue and how to pickpocket top tips from top-performing rogues.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Jayo Jun 1st 2011 9:22AM
Rogue's woes are nothing compared to enhancement shamans.
Chase Christian Jun 1st 2011 10:35AM
Good thing shamans are hybrids and can spec into a different role if they're doing poorly.
Jayo Jun 1st 2011 10:40AM
That would work if Elemental wasn't even worse, huh?
Amaxe Jun 1st 2011 10:50AM
"Good thing shamans are hybrids and can spec into a different role if they're doing poorly."
So you mean, it's a good thing we can go switch to a spec we actively dislike if the one we like sucks?
Spoken like someone who has never invested time with an enh shaman toon.
Chase Christian Jun 1st 2011 10:51AM
I'm not tell you all to roll resto shamans, I'm telling you that you have options. Rogues don't, which is why I'm upset. Even if I wanted to throw away my DPS gear and do something different to be viable, I can't.
Diop Jun 1st 2011 11:31AM
Still, saying "if you don't like enhance, go resto or ele" is only marginally better and about as sensative advice as someone saying "If you don't like Rogues, go reroll"
I main a Rogue but do a lot of raiding as an enh Shaman so I know only too well the pain both sides are suffering, he probably shouldn't have mentioned it in such an adversarial way (or at all on a Rogue coloumn) but the issue remains both classes need looking at.
(also as a side note when I'm on my enh Shaman I yearn for Fan of Knives, yeah it's not a great a good AOE but still, having a ramp up time of only 4-8 seconds instead of 12, not requiring multi dotting, not requiring the constant shuffling of a totem to keep up with moving adds, only having to press one button...)
Zayd Jun 1st 2011 11:41AM
Bring the player, not the class.
Erm, unless that class is a rogue. In which case bring nibbles!
Daedalus4096 Jun 1st 2011 12:54PM
Rogues do not need to be above everyone else on the meters. They need to be *tied* with every other DPS spec. Really, the fact that this same annoying and entirely untrue point keeps coming up only illustrates why the entire concept of "pure" classes is a design failure. Rift and SWTOR had the right idea in making every class a hybrid; they get to avoid all this nonsense.
Kaphik Jun 1st 2011 1:20PM
@ Daedalus4096
Problem is, they AREN'T tied with every other dps spec. If another class can bring the (limited) utility that rogues have and more, like battle rez, bloodlust, multiple raid buffs, et al, why would a raid leader bring a rogue along if there are limited spots? With the explosion of 10 man raid groups, spots are hard to find in a lot of places. If rogues are just "meh" dps, the "meh" dps of a paladin, deathknight or even enhancement shaman is going to be more attractive.
I absolutely agree that rogues need a substantial buff to their damage. I just don't have the answers as to how to achieve that.
Amaxe Jun 1st 2011 1:55PM
There's a difference between saying "tied" and "first."
When Blizz says "bring the player, not the class" then it seems to follow that what the toon brings to the game should be about equivalent, whether rogue, enh shaman, fury warrior, mage etc...
When one class starts to fall behind, then Blizz should look at what makes one class OP or UP in relation to the others.
Balancing the classes should not mean one class should be first in certain fights. It means that the only difference between DPS class A and DPS class B should be the skill of the player (assuming the equivalent gear).
Should Blizz make rogues about equal in power to other classes? Yes. Should they ever be designed to be tops? No.
quickshiv Jun 1st 2011 2:38PM
I think we all need to accept one certain fact. Blizzard knows exactly the state of every class including every spec. You don't need to tell them Rogues/Shamen are UP and Mages are OP. They know. They analyze all the data and see exactly what you see.
Once you have accepted that you can move on to the pendulum theory. The effectiveness of every class operates on a pendulum. Some classes are on the apex (mages), some are on the up swing (rogues) some are on the back swing (warriors), and some are on the back apex Shamen. Others are somewhere in the middle. The combined power of every class is equal to current content. Blizzard does this intentionally to keep things interesting. It also encourages people to play and level up alts. This method keeps you playing the game.
Every class gets its' time in the spot light on a cycle. It is how the game has always worked and it wont change. Even though I agree with the article it doesn't matter. Eventually blizzard will buff rogues to the point where they are #1 on dps but it has nothing to do with how much you or I scream about it or how many posts there are. They will do it in their own time according to the pendulum. As soon as you are happy with rogue dps the pendulum will start swinging back.
Shadda Jun 1st 2011 4:58PM
The problem is that people base these things off of the top one hundred players of a given spec, rather than what's average.
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Argaloth/25N/all/14/30/default/
This is why you won't see rogues getting any major boost. They perform better than any other melee class on Argaloth and are third overall. People seem to forget that ideal conditions for rogues are ALSO ideal conditions for most everyone else.
JaydsterC2 Jun 1st 2011 9:22AM
I feel your pain. Enhancement Shaman suffer from the same ramp up problem. We need a 5 stack of Searing Totem to do decent DPS. And target switching blows that all to hell.
solidus.obscura Jun 1st 2011 9:29AM
The problems affecting rogues are affecting all mdps. It only affects rogues (and enh shammies, ret pals to a lesser extent) more as the stacking damage is a significant component of DPS. I'd chalk a little up to nature of the beast... melee are more of a liability... rogues being the most susceptible.
(cutaia) Jun 1st 2011 11:05AM
I don't know about Enh. Shammies, but I wouldn't say ret pallies are suffering from any of the issues listed in the article. Target switching doesn't really do much to a ret pally's DPS outside of the time it takes to run from one target to the next (and we do have a couple ranged attacks to fill that time). Censure is the only thing we have to build up again, and it stacks up pretty damn quickly.
AoE scenarios barely affect our rotation at all -- it's just switching out a couple abilities -- and we were even given the ability to continue building Holy Power through it. With the other buffs in 4.2, ret pally AoE is going to be even more effective.
I know the fights themselves tend to favor ranged over melee, so we're all in the same boat there, but it sounds like rogues are far worse off just in general due to their sheer mechanics.
Menta Jun 1st 2011 11:48PM
I would agree with Cu, as a fury warrior i can at least spec into deep wounds which will hit on my crit cleaves.
Pantyraider Jun 1st 2011 9:32AM
200% damage on Poison crits, please and thanks
cronos12 Jun 1st 2011 10:59AM
I agree that poisons should be where Blizz needs to look a bulk of our improvements.
1) I think poisons should go the way of Vanishing Powder, Ammo, and Soul Shards. Just allow us to poison up our weapons via a skill for each poison type. Correct me if i'm wrong, but there isn't another class that needs to buy stacks of items for such an integral part of their class anymore.
2) Have attack crits apply multiple stacks of Deadly Poision. This will help with switching targets, as we'll get our deadly stack up to full faster.
3) Give Rogues a Raid Buff. Maybe make Honor Amongst Thieves baseline with a % increase for subtlety. This will give raids a reason to bring rogues, even if they aren't top DPS.
That's just a few ideas from this old rogue... I'm sure everyone else has some too!
Bumblebee Jun 1st 2011 12:08PM
@cronos
"1) I think poisons should go the way of Vanishing Powder, Ammo, and Soul Shards. Just allow us to poison up our weapons via a skill for each poison type."
More of a Quality of Life -issue really. No effect on our DPS, but would free some bag space.
"2) Have attack crits apply multiple stacks of Deadly Poision. This will help with switching targets, as we'll get our deadly stack up to full faster."
I really like this idea. It wouldn't only help apply poisons faster (which would be a significant buff for Assassination) but it would help make Crit a much more desirable stat overall.
"3) Give Rogues a Raid Buff. Maybe make Honor Amongst Thieves baseline with a % increase for subtlety."
Assassination has +8% Spell Damage via Master Poisoner. Combat has +4% Physical Damage via Savage Combat and Sub has HaT. All of them raid buffs. We already have the baseline buff utility in that sense. How effective they are depends quite a bit on your raid comp and size.
shawn Jun 1st 2011 9:33AM
I've noticed this due to lesser geared Hunters and casters out DPSing me by like .5% in almost every heroic. It really doesn't concern me as much as annoy me. Honestly, in my opinion, as long as you're doing the "right" amount of DPS for your gear and build, meter ranking shouldn't matter.
The point of an encounter is to down the boss. Is it that big of a deal if a Rogue does 20K and a Hunter 22K when the fight requires you to only need 15K DPS from each party member?
At iLevel 358 and a solid rotation, my DPS never dips below 10K on _any_ fight, trash mobs, bosses, single-target, multi-target, movement, etc.
Unless I just get lazy and phone it in, I put up more than enough DPS for the fight.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea as a pure DPS class we "should" be on top, but how much of this is just QQ when, really, we're doing our jobs well and contributing above average anyway?