Ready Check: Is your raid group socially compatible?
by Tyler Caraway 
Jun 3rd 2011 at 6:00PM
Those people who know me would probably say I'm a rather agreeable person. Perhaps not always entirely nice, but if you ask me to do something or for help, then chances are I'll say yes. However, should you demand that I do any task, then you're better off talking to the wall, and you'll be lucky if I so much as recognize you exist.
This makes being a part of a raiding team interesting. Raid leaders often do make demands of their raiders, and usually that's just considered to be how it is. On the other hand, there are raid leaders out there who do nothing but ask, and they do so ever so nicely. They're effective, yet these leaders can sometimes be viewed as soft, weak, unable to actually control the raid. Every raid is composed of several different personalities; every raid is led in a different way.
How, then, to know what to do as a raider? How do you know the best way to handle your team as a raid leader? It's all a big, jumbled mess.
Rules will be rules
Each and every raid or guild has a set number of rules and regulations that they expect their members to follow. These are usually listed on the guild website or explained clearly at the start of a raid to newer members. Despite this, most of these rules don't actually address the more common issues encountered within a raid setting.
For the most part, these rules address loot and attendance. There may be a few generalized social rules, such as no talking during raid encounters, but these are generally the social norm; it's pretty common knowledge that you shouldn't chit-chat over Vent while attempting a boss. What usually isn't addressed are the more free-form issues that often arise.
If you ever managed to sneak into our Vent server during a raid night, the most common phrase you'd probably hear would be, "Murmurs, shut up." During raids, I tend to be a fairly social person, talking, laughing, joking, things of that nature -- and this isn't uncommon, either. There are several people in my guild who are similar, and these people exist in most other guilds as well. Yet that simple phrase creates a rather complex philosophical question.
What is the extent of a raid leader's control? Does a raid leader have absolute authority over all things in all situations? Is it expected that I would obey such a command?
Creating a social environment
I would imagine (or at least hope) that there's a variety of responses to those questions. I am sure there are those out there who feel that, yes, the raid leader's word is effectively "law," and if I'm told to shut my mouth, then I should shut my mouth. On the other hand, there are those who would say that the request needs to be within reason. Asking me to shut up for no practical reason is rather silly.
The truth is that both and neither are correct. Although each raid will have its set rules listed and defined, the actual social dynamic of a raid is determined by the raid consensus -- that is to say, the collective belief in socially acceptable behavior held by a raid group.
In one raid group, it might be expected that if a raid leader tells you to do something, you do it without thinking, without objecting. In another raid, it might be viewed as silly to think that a raid leader is some supreme dictator given some form of divine right to lord over the rest of the players. Some raids might find it more acceptable to openly question things such as strategy over Vent; others might feel it is best to bring these issues up in whispers. It is all a matter of what the raid collectively believes to be acceptable.
Keep in mind that I am not speaking in terms of things that occur during an actual encounter. I doubt most people would think it's acceptable to tell your raid leader "no" when told to switch healing assignments or interrupt a certain ability in the middle of the battle. What I am talking about are the social rules that apply outside of encounters.
It may seem a trivial topic, yet it is this social contract, so to speak, that creates the entire atmosphere of a raid group, which is a huge factor in how well a raid performs, raider retention, and raider happiness.
What makes a raid leader?
Although each raid group is different, I would say to every raid leader to expect and accept that you probably don't have absolute authority. Raid leaders are under a lot of stress and pressure -- I know, I was one for quite a long time -- but a vast majority of that has to deal with the social dynamics of any given raid group.
Most raiders I'm sure honestly believe that their raid groups are "perfect" (or at least "good"). They don't have drama spilling out all over the raid chat, they don't have yelling matches or people screaming at each other over Vent, and they probably don't have major personal conflicts. It's possible those people do have a perfect raid group; however, often the case is that they simply have a fantastic raid leader.
Leading a raid is not about choosing where the guild is going for that night. It isn't about configuring strategies or making on-the-fly battle assessments. Those are things that a raid leader has to do, but it's probably only around 30% of the actual "work." Instead, the vast majority of a raid leader's job is to keep the drama under control, to keep every little nasty, dirty thing that happens behind the scenes, behind the scenes.
I was once a part of a fantastic guild that ran via loot council. For a time, I was raid leader and even guild leader. In the several years that I was with this team, never once did anyone ever say that we had loot drama. In fact, one of the major selling points that our guildies would bring up was that we literally had no loot issues at all. To this day, I can honestly say that we only ever lost one person in the raid to a loot issue, and that was because the fellow was just a crazy.
Those people had no idea. There were loads of loot issues constantly going on; virtually everything was a "problem" or an "issue" of some form or another. I can say that I spent more time putting out fires over loot than anything else. Yet no one ever knew. That's a raid leader's job: to keep the drama quiet, contained, and out of the public eye. Trust me, it sucks.
What raid leaders really do
It is important to understand the role of a raid leader for one reason: They have to keep the social order. What the social order is in any given raid group is drastically different from that in others. There are raids where silence in Vent is expected, where there isn't any measure of joking or playful banter. This isn't because the players are dull or unfriendly toward each other; some of them just need that to focus, and because of this, the raid naturally creates a social atmosphere where it is frowned upon to behave in a demonstrative manner. In this situation, having the raid leader tell you to "shut up" means you pretty much better do it.
On the other hand, there are guilds that are highly talkative, that socialize with each other during raids frequently and joke or tease each other constantly. In this situation, it may never happen that the raid leader tells raiders to quiet down, or if he does, it might be understood as a joke and not a dictatorial demand.
The important thing for the raid leader (and in fact the raid) to understand is what it is that a raid wants and to then do his best to accommodate that sentiment. If a raid group expects or accepts commanding, dictator-like leadership, then that is how a raid leader should behave. If the raid doesn't respond kindly to demands or orders, then change your approach.
I have found that the biggest reason that any raid leader fails is because he doesn't understand what it is that the raid group wants in terms of leadership. Often, they attempt to enforce a specific form of leadership that isn't what the raid collectively expects and therefore are met with resistance. This will cause the raid leader to become frustrated and probably quit.
Although a raid leader behaving like a highly antagonistic tyrant is usually the most common form of this, it isn't always the case. The "nice" raid leaders who are sweet and polite can just as often find themselves being subverted by other raid members left and right. In those cases, the raiders feel that raid leader isn't strict enough, and the more demanding raid leader would actually keep order better.
There is no wrong or right way to be a raid leader; it all depends on what the raid itself expects. There will be times and there will be raids where the classical "dickish" raid leader is the most effective. There will be times when the classic "pushover" raid leader is the better choice.
Bringing in new raiders
On top of raid leaders, there are also new raiders to consider. Every time that a raid gains a new raider, it causes a disturbance in the social consensus of a group. Since each person has his or her own personal views on these matters, a new player different in views thus potentially changes the entire dynamic. Now, one person isn't going to usually have a huge impact on the social dynamic of a raid group -- but it is entirely possible.
A raid group that is only partially social in nature may suddenly become highly social and talkative after introducing a single highly social person into the mix. Similarly, a more reserved and quiet person might have the opposite effect, reducing the social nature of a raid. This is often why guilds look for "fit" when getting new members. Although the "game" part of WoW is important, the social aspect is as well, and guilds will take or pass on players that they feel won't fit into the social consensus of their raid despite the need for the player's class or spec.
We see it all the time yet often don't openly acknowledge what it is. Comments such as, "Oh, he really seemed like a jerk" are exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. In that social outlook, the person seemed inappropriate and raiders felt the player wouldn't "fit in" with the rest of the raid. To another raid group with a different social dynamic, that player may seem nice, kind, and humorous.
As a new raider, you have to be aware of the nature of the raid that you are getting into. As important as clearing content is, the social side of WoW honestly does make or break your experiences. It's a tired cliché, but "just be yourself" is the best advice that you can have for anything in this game.
If you are in a raiding group that you feel conflicts with your personality, chance are it's because the people you're raiding with don't share your social traits. You have to make a choice. Staying will cause you conflict, and it will cause you frustration. If you can handle it, then great, go for it. If you feel that you might end up hating the game simply because of the people you play with, it might be time to find a new guild.
Ready Check shares all the strategies and inside information you need to take your raiding to the next level. Be sure to look up our strategy guides to Cataclysm's 5-man instances, and for more healer-centric advice, visit Raid Rx.
Filed under: Ready Check (Raiding)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ladeezluvlarry71 Jun 3rd 2011 6:57PM
I've been in too many raiding guilds to count and I think the success of my current one is how well everyone gets along and how easily we all agree on raid conventions. It's pretty sweet. :D
mark Jun 3rd 2011 9:42PM
this FTW
my current guild has it set for any new type of raider
"On top of raid leaders, there are also new raiders to consider. Every time that a raid gains a new raider, it causes a disturbance in the social consensus of a group. Since each person has his or her own personal views on these matters, a new player different in views thus potentially changes the entire dynamic. Now, one person isn't going to usually have a huge impact on the social dynamic of a raid group -- but it is entirely possible."
our GM tends to run everything - from the tiniest detail
new raiders cool with joing a raid and doing what he's told = raider
new raiders go random sugestions but not often - he gets "champion" status (listened to more - cause there good for options on awakward fights
new raiders got opinions on fights - and sugests tactics etc - fast promo to officer
(GM makes final decisions but he asks for options first)
new raider wants us to do things his way - thats gone too far - he learns to do as GM says or he finsds a new guild
MrDrew Jun 6th 2011 12:05PM
This seems to be my current guild as well. We have the GM/Raid lead and then we have class leaders and we all communicate pretty well with each other. Even when we have to pug someone or we pick up a new raider we explain our strat to them plain and clear and it works out 90% of the time.
Revynn Jun 3rd 2011 6:57PM
- " If you feel that you might end up hating the game simply because of the people you play with, it might be time to find a new guild."
This. I've always said that I'd rather raid with friends doing old content than bleeding edge progression with people I hate. While I've often considered leaving my guild for purpler pastures, the friendships I have and the group dynamic between the core members (the veterans and people who have been around for a long time, not necessarily the "A" raid team) is exactly what I want out of a guild and I just can't leave that behind.
Maneku Jun 3rd 2011 7:31PM
The whole social dynamic of a guild can change inside a raid, for better or worse. A guild primarily of jokers and chatterboxes might get quiet during a raid, or vice versa. Sometimes it's just how the players respond to the stress inherent to raiding, or sometimes it's because of the influence (or lack thereof) of the leadership. Sometimes it works out, but others it can cause problems when suddenly players that all got along great before are leaning different ways on the matter. I've had many problems within my own raid group with such an occurrence. Outside raiding, we're all friendly and chatty, and get along great. But get us in a raid, and suddenly half the group is telling the other half to STFU and raid, with the whole raid being annoyed with each other, and our raid leader is too laid back to do anything about it, which is probably a big factor in our horrid raid progression.
sinceritystar Jun 3rd 2011 7:43PM
This is a really interesting topic! One of my personal rules of WoW is if I'm in a raid group and I dislike the people, or the social environment, I leave. I'm one like you, I laugh and joke and tease in raids (not during encounters, naturally, but while killing trash or waiting for people to come back from quick breaks). If the raid leader tells me to be quiet, I know it's not for me.
My current guild is really chill and laid back. We take the encounters seriously, but between encounters it's a free-for-all, tons of jokes being thrown around and in-game vanity items being tossed about. That's the reason I stay, not for the progression.
Eleph Jun 3rd 2011 7:45PM
"Raid leaders are under a lot of stress and pressure...but a vast majority of that has to deal with the social dynamics of any given raid group."
Really? It would seem that our guild leader probably spends 1% of the time dealing with the social dynamics of any group, whether it's the group currently in gchat, our resident group of PvPers or our weekend raid groups.
I find the last half of that statement very peculiar and wonder if maybe a bit too much personal emotion has clouded this article.
In our guild, yes, we know the fights well now, and well enough where we could talk through fights, but we're not there to yap. Yes, there's chit chat, but if your raid leader is telling or asking you to shut up--doesn't matter which--you're probably talking too much.
The ability to remind a player to interrupt/don't stand in crap/move here is super valuable, but you can't really do that if someone else is talking at the wrong time, or in some cases, constantly talking. I personally detest having to sift through three voices in vent trying to talk over one another.
I'm guessing that when pilots of a commercial airliner are taking off from a runway, or landing the plane, they're probably not chit-chatting about their personal lives with each other privately, or with the passengers via loudspeaker. I think of that as the boss fight.
When you're in the air and on auto-pilot (trash mobs), go ahead and talk, but within reason. The cockpit (Ventrilo) is tiny, and both the pilot (raid leader) and the co-pilot(s) (raiders) are going get real tired of each other if they aren't afforded time to even think because of the constant babbling.
Tyler Caraway Jun 3rd 2011 8:46PM
Until you have been a raid/guild leader, then it is difficult to know exactly what to expect. I do not mean this disrespectfully, but it is the honest truth. Even in guilds that seemingly lack any outward social drama, it's there. It's always there.
A 25-man raid probably consists of around 30 raiders, do you honestly think that all of them get along perfectly? That none of them have issues or problems with each other? Doesn't happen. People may not be sniping at each other over vent, on the forums, or in chat, but I'll bet you money there's a good deal of side chat rooms for select people and whispers going around.
As a raid leader, you are constantly bombarded with tells from people; especially if things aren't going according to plan. You wipe, and you'll get at least five different people telling you exactly whose fault it was and why. That's the way it goes. They could be right, they could be wrong, it doesn't matter. You still have to address these things. Superiority complexes develop easily and cause huge rifts between players.
While this piece was written from my perspective, it isn't emotional nor indicative of any issues that I have now or may have had in the past. I no long raid/guild lead, but I still love the people I was guilded with at the time, just as much as I love the guild I am in now. While being a raid/guild leader was stressful, it never stopped me from having fun. If it had, I would have quit doing it.
One last thing, I think you misunderstood the article. I wasn't talking about chatting during encounters, nor anything that happens during encounters at all. This is strictly generalized, trash raiding. No bosses involved.
evemartyn Jun 3rd 2011 9:04PM
I think you missed the point, obviously he wouldn't fit into your raid group but that's not to say there isn't a raid group that would work for him. Our raid group has a nice mixture of both types I think, some people know just the time when a well placed joke will cut the tension, get us all out of our heads and back into the game. And one of them is our raid leader.
Eleph Jun 4th 2011 2:09AM
I elected to not include the fact that I have been a guild leader and lead raids in my initial post because when all was said and done, I didn't feel that it added any extra weight to what I was trying to say. In fact, it detracted from it.
Take away the terribad pilot analogy at the end. Forget that. But to retort and insinuate that "that just doesn't happen"--meaning that raid groups who get along are ultra rare--is so short-sighted.
They exist. There are many. In fact, given the comments I've read since my initial post, it seems there are many who share my own experience. But that's beside the point, I suppose.
Tyler Caraway Jun 4th 2011 9:31AM
I would hope that most raid groups get along! If they didn't, I doubt that they would remain together for any length of time.
Getting along and not having issues with people are not mutually exclusive. I'd argue that it's merely human nature. In such a large group of people, there will be conflicting personalities, there will be those handful of people that just don't see eye to eye and possibly don't even "like" each other.
When it comes to opinions of strategy, wipes, and roles, people are going to disagree. People are going to have different styles of humor, and people are going to be offended by different thing. It's absolutely the raid leaders job to make sure that none of these things blow out of proportion, that small little disagreements don't explode into all out drama. Unaddressed, they easily can. A raid that lacks drama almost always does so because it has fantastic leadership, not simply because everyone in the raid are best of friends. Even friends have tiffs.
As a personal example of what I mean; when I first joined the guild that I'm currently in, I wasn't entirely talkative and I wasn't around all too much outside of raids. I take a while to warm up to people, and I have alts on more severs than I count; nothing was wrong, it's just the way I am.
Our raid leader, though, thought that I might be uncomfortable, he was worried that perhaps the way people joke and talk made me uncomfortable, so he asked me privately if everything as okay. He wanted to ensure that I wasn't being offended by anyone. I wasn't, but if that had been the case then he would have just easily avoided any drama from starting well before it became an issue.
That's what makes truly wonderful raid leaders, and that's how guilds avoid massive amounts of drama. You don't wait for things to reach a boiling point, you notice the spark that's lighting the fires and douse them before they can even start to bubble.
Artemisian Jun 8th 2011 4:21AM
Tyler's on the money, it's generally true. I used to be co-GM (the other ones were 1) a psychopath, not exaggerating, and 2) a really chill dude who ignored confrontation) and I got every snippet of social drama coming my way to deal with. Now I'm just a regular member of another guild, but good friends with our raid leader, and he constantly has to put out fires of social drama and hates it.
So yes, you're the exception, not the rule I'm afraid :(
Angrycelt Jun 3rd 2011 7:50PM
Our raid group is made up specifically of the people we get along with. We don't have all the bases covered for every ability and contingency. We have overlaps in classes and roles. BUT we all get along, we all like each other, and we all know that the blur of pixels that stood in the fire isn't doing it maliciously or out of stupidity. We have members who have kids, are married, have annoying dogs and cats... we give each other a wide berth, and when we were grinding for days to figure out how to drop Nef, or Al'Aqir, or even back to the old BC days when we were just forming, we all got along and enjoyed playing together. We're now working through hard modes, and for being a relatively small guild, we're due to hit lvl 23 by next Tuesday simply because our entire guild is made up of folks we enjoy being around.
Heck, some days that's the only thing that makes me renew my subscription.
evemartyn Jun 3rd 2011 9:09PM
I feel sorry for you if you feel that way, and I don't mean that as an insult, I genuinely wish you were having the same experience I am. My guild is like a second family for me and its not the first one I've been in that felt that way. Maybe you need to be really picky about what guild you join to find your right fit.
Chase Jun 3rd 2011 10:09PM
I have awesome times in some PuGs. Not everyone, but there happen to be a bunch of heroics where my group is just plain fun. It isn't so much the run anymore I care about, it is the people I am talking to.
I really enjoy running heroics with my guildmates as well. Most have senses of humor that match up with mine, and I don't have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes.
Finnicks Jun 4th 2011 2:05AM
I am amused that this article appeared today.
Just yesterday I found myself yet again dealing with some interpersonal drama between two of my raiders who can't seem to get along and require my frequent intervention to keep things going smoothly.
It's part of the job... You're the leader. If person A does something to person B that person B doesn't like, and person B is a respectable, mature human being with any lick of sense, the raid leader is going to hear about from person A in private (whereas a less respectively, less mature human being with no sense would openly attack person A), and gets the wonderful, marvelous task of talking to person A and working it out.
BooCat Jun 4th 2011 6:39AM
It's not Blizzard fault if the community is not like it use to be, but it's the community itself. What is stopping anyone from forming a community or friends?
Tyler Caraway Jun 4th 2011 9:41AM
Blizzard was well aware of the social impact that the dungeon finder tool would have on the community, but it was a sacrifice that they calculated to be for the better, and they were right.
Getting dungeon groups back in TBC was probably the least fun thing in the world. It was great when first leveling and people were always looking, it could be so-so when attempting to do the daily heroic because there was a wide number of people with similar goals, but that is only a limited fraction of players.
How was a low level player supposed to find random dungeon groups? Sit around in a city watching trade chat? That's highly counter-productive. What about farming heroics for newer max level characters? If it isn't the daily, how many people really need to run them, let alone the specific one that you want, at any given time?
Cross-realm dungeon groups vastly increased the pool of players to draw from in order to create a dungeon group, and it made the entire process that much easier. To claim that the dungeon tool wasn't worth the cost that came with it is silly.
WoW is still very much a social game, and I cannot see how players feel otherwise. Dungeon groups may go by without much interaction, but it's the player's choice to make them so. You may not end up being best friends with the players that you meet, but that doesn't mean you cannot be friendly, engage in social interaction, and have a great time. It's a different form of social now; one that isn't any better nor worse than the previous concept.