Dev Watercooler: Content for the casual 85

One of the weirdest statements that I have to make to many people who are new to the MMO genre is that "the game begins at 85." While we know that isn't factually correct, since there are 85 levels of content previous to hitting the magic number, it still makes sense from a "never-ending world" point of view. There is no end, so the game begins at the "current" end.
Fargo makes the case that all players are entitled to an epic storyline, engaging content, and a feeling of continual power growth. The new patch 4.2 Firelands daily quest hubs in the Molten Front and the Regrowth are tailor-made to hit these points and provide a personal, continuing experience for players who don't participate in the raid game. With dailies being randomized and your personal tree growing at your own pace, players are rewarded based on their efforts alone.
Personally, I like this direction for solo questing experiences. The Molten Front and the Regrowth seem like better, more advanced, and more evolved versions of the reputation grinds we were previously chugging away at to open up gear and other rewards, but with less of a "watch a bar go up" mentality. Here, we have engaging choices and rotating sets of random tasks that keep us coming back for more, all the while physically changing the world around us. Now we just need to care about the cause. I think Firelands is going to push us a good way forward in that regard.
Check out Fargo's first contribution to the Dev Watercooler series, after the jump.
Dev Watercooler -- Content for the Casual 85
As this is my first dev watercooler, I thought some introductions would be in order. I'm the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft, but many of you may already be familiar with my writing and webcomics under the pen-name "Fargo" from years past. To all my new and old friends: Hello! I hope to have the opportunity for more chats like this in between cramming our game full of epic experiences capable of melting your frontal lobes with pure liquefied awesome. (It says that on my business card.)
I'm 85. Now What?
World of Warcraft has a pretty big footprint: we try to create a world that appeals to casual and hardcore players alike. There's a whole body of players -- be they casual or solo gamers or serious gamers with time constraints -- who gravitate toward questing. It's the most accessible part of the game. Quests move you through cool locations, allow you to play through epic stories, and continually reward you without requiring a lot of practice or commitment. Not everyone has the time to raid, and not everyone wants to; for many players, quests are the whole game. A major thrust of the Cataclysm expansion, obviously, was to recreate much of the world to give players a more consistent, satisfying, epic questing experience as they level up.
But there's a problem with level-up questing, and it keeps me up at night. It has an end. When you hit max level, the rewards slow to a trickle. You don't get a comforting Ding! every couple of hours. You stop learning new abilities. From a solo progression standpoint, your character is in many ways "done," and you turn your attention to the other parts of the game (like crafting.)
For many players, the end is just the beginning. We've done a lot to provide serious players with ongoing progression in the form of dungeons, raids, and accumulating high-end gear for fighting bosses or PvP. But what about the player who just wants to keep questing?
Keeping the Rewards Coming
In the absence of gaining levels, there are still ways to reward players who want to continue questing or playing through quest-like experiences. Here are some things (there may be more) that might encourage players like this to stick around:
We've grappled with this problem before, and we'll continue to tinker with solutions. The Isle of Quel'Danas provided people with a great sense of progression, at least on a realm-wide level, and it sure felt epic. The Argent Tournament definitely gave players a sense of personal progress, as well as lots of fun toys.
But for patch 4.2, we really wanted to give players something. Something big!
Fight for the Firelands!
The Guardians of Hyjal are getting smart in patch 4.2. They're not just assaulting the Firelands with hardcore raiding guilds... they're attacking that place with everything they've got. That includes you, solo players! We've created a whole zone dedicated to daily questing. There are some 60 new quests in total -- that's about half a zone's worth of quest content. While the raiders are concentrating on taking down the likes of Ragnaros, you'll be securing the rest of his fiery domain.
There's also a story here, a chronicle of a vicious, knock-down, drag-out fight that begins in Hyjal and progresses -- over the course of weeks -- across the mountaintop and then into the Firelands themselves. Along the way, major characters are going to get rocked, you'll meet (and destroy) a few new villains, and you'll earn yourself a small heap of nice rewards. The druids are establishing a beachhead in a hostile world, starting with little more than a pile of rocks and ultimately erecting an enormous otherworldly base.
The progression is personal: you won't see it happen until you make it happen.
We want to keep that sense of progression going, not just over the course of weeks but on a daily basis. As you begin to unlock and upgrade your hub in the Firelands, more quests will become available, and you'll be able to slowly push your way forward every day. Extensive randomization means your quest flow will be a little different one day to the next. You'll also have choices to make as to how the battle progresses.
The Firelands daily area hits a lot of the high points on my list above. And, for good measure, players can also earn a lot of gold and player-power enhancing items as well.
Beyond the Firelands...
Problem solved? Far from it -- to be clear, we don't think the Firelands questing arc is "the answer." But I'll come out and say I think it's pretty sweet. I'd love to hear your feedback -- it's been up and running on the Public Test Realm for a couple of weeks now. Personally, I've fought my way into the Firelands and I'm nearly ready to select my first major upgrade to the quest hub... do I go with the Druids of the Talon or do I recruit the Shadow Wardens? Decisions, decisions! My choice will impact the next couple weeks of questing.
Still, we're building towards something, and we're constantly watching players to see what works and what doesn't. I can't wait to see the Guardians of Hyjal stage their assault on the live servers.
In the meantime, even as we speak, our Top Men and Women (and I want you to imagine that we're wearing lab coats) are scheming up ways to push these ideas even farther in future World of Warcraft updates. Players shouldn't feel like max level is the end of their experience. We want everyone to participate in something epic, no matter what their playstyle.
Dave "Fargo" Kosak is the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft. Each morning by the first light of dawn his forearms are ritually shaved, followed by twenty minutes of cardio on one of those playground spring-horses.
I'm 85. Now What?
World of Warcraft has a pretty big footprint: we try to create a world that appeals to casual and hardcore players alike. There's a whole body of players -- be they casual or solo gamers or serious gamers with time constraints -- who gravitate toward questing. It's the most accessible part of the game. Quests move you through cool locations, allow you to play through epic stories, and continually reward you without requiring a lot of practice or commitment. Not everyone has the time to raid, and not everyone wants to; for many players, quests are the whole game. A major thrust of the Cataclysm expansion, obviously, was to recreate much of the world to give players a more consistent, satisfying, epic questing experience as they level up.
But there's a problem with level-up questing, and it keeps me up at night. It has an end. When you hit max level, the rewards slow to a trickle. You don't get a comforting Ding! every couple of hours. You stop learning new abilities. From a solo progression standpoint, your character is in many ways "done," and you turn your attention to the other parts of the game (like crafting.)
For many players, the end is just the beginning. We've done a lot to provide serious players with ongoing progression in the form of dungeons, raids, and accumulating high-end gear for fighting bosses or PvP. But what about the player who just wants to keep questing?
Keeping the Rewards Coming
In the absence of gaining levels, there are still ways to reward players who want to continue questing or playing through quest-like experiences. Here are some things (there may be more) that might encourage players like this to stick around:
- Participation in an epic story
- A sense of progress
- Discovery of something new or unexpected each day
- Earning character customization (including cool mounts!)
- Earning fun toys
- Making your character more powerful
We've grappled with this problem before, and we'll continue to tinker with solutions. The Isle of Quel'Danas provided people with a great sense of progression, at least on a realm-wide level, and it sure felt epic. The Argent Tournament definitely gave players a sense of personal progress, as well as lots of fun toys.
But for patch 4.2, we really wanted to give players something. Something big!
Fight for the Firelands!
The Guardians of Hyjal are getting smart in patch 4.2. They're not just assaulting the Firelands with hardcore raiding guilds... they're attacking that place with everything they've got. That includes you, solo players! We've created a whole zone dedicated to daily questing. There are some 60 new quests in total -- that's about half a zone's worth of quest content. While the raiders are concentrating on taking down the likes of Ragnaros, you'll be securing the rest of his fiery domain.
There's also a story here, a chronicle of a vicious, knock-down, drag-out fight that begins in Hyjal and progresses -- over the course of weeks -- across the mountaintop and then into the Firelands themselves. Along the way, major characters are going to get rocked, you'll meet (and destroy) a few new villains, and you'll earn yourself a small heap of nice rewards. The druids are establishing a beachhead in a hostile world, starting with little more than a pile of rocks and ultimately erecting an enormous otherworldly base.
The progression is personal: you won't see it happen until you make it happen.
We want to keep that sense of progression going, not just over the course of weeks but on a daily basis. As you begin to unlock and upgrade your hub in the Firelands, more quests will become available, and you'll be able to slowly push your way forward every day. Extensive randomization means your quest flow will be a little different one day to the next. You'll also have choices to make as to how the battle progresses.
The Firelands daily area hits a lot of the high points on my list above. And, for good measure, players can also earn a lot of gold and player-power enhancing items as well.
Beyond the Firelands...
Problem solved? Far from it -- to be clear, we don't think the Firelands questing arc is "the answer." But I'll come out and say I think it's pretty sweet. I'd love to hear your feedback -- it's been up and running on the Public Test Realm for a couple of weeks now. Personally, I've fought my way into the Firelands and I'm nearly ready to select my first major upgrade to the quest hub... do I go with the Druids of the Talon or do I recruit the Shadow Wardens? Decisions, decisions! My choice will impact the next couple weeks of questing.
Still, we're building towards something, and we're constantly watching players to see what works and what doesn't. I can't wait to see the Guardians of Hyjal stage their assault on the live servers.
In the meantime, even as we speak, our Top Men and Women (and I want you to imagine that we're wearing lab coats) are scheming up ways to push these ideas even farther in future World of Warcraft updates. Players shouldn't feel like max level is the end of their experience. We want everyone to participate in something epic, no matter what their playstyle.
Dave "Fargo" Kosak is the lead quest designer for World of Warcraft. Each morning by the first light of dawn his forearms are ritually shaved, followed by twenty minutes of cardio on one of those playground spring-horses.
The news is already rolling out for the upcoming WoW Patch 4.2! Preview the new Firelands raid, marvel at the new legendary staff, and get the inside scoop on new quest hubs -- plus new Tier 12 armor!
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
noel mcleod Jun 9th 2011 3:08PM
@Noyou
So very well said. I am in a family guild where we know many of our guildies in RL (my kids are in the guild) and the best geared players are always the kids! There is a 12 year old in our guild who has waaaay better PvP gear than me from grinding arenas after school, fortunately he doesn't have the obnoxious attitude you so often come across.
Huann Jun 8th 2011 9:40PM
Let me guess, it'll be more phrasings with players unable to interact each other. Good job for ruining this once great game.
I'm desperate for another mmorpg.
Noyou Jun 8th 2011 10:04PM
You either don't understand phasing or haven't played in a long time. While leveling my toons in every area of Cata I have had no problem finding people all over the place. Heck at most times you are competing for mobs. That being said Cata was a blast to level thru if you wanted social interaction. If any complaint you have it would be Dungeon Finder. But I will save that for those particular people (you know who you are).
DarkWalker Jun 8th 2011 10:23PM
@Noyou
I still remember my guild sending 4-5 people to the ICC meeting stone to assure at least 2 of them would see each other and be able to summon. That is, until we started ignoring that stone and using the 5-man one (which had another advantage in that it was on it's own little sanctuary zone).
Phasing is a real pain when you want to group with a specific player that is on a different phase, and Blizzard has yet to figure how to make such groupings actually work.
Andrew Jun 9th 2011 1:14PM
Drawing on my PTR experiences (which are fairly limited: I'm only about 1/2-2/3 of the way to getting either the DotT or the Shadow Wardens), they seem to have changed the phasing structure so that when you are in the Firelands the landscape is phased, but they players aren't. I've seen some players riding around killing invisible enemies in what appears to me as acres of fire that one-shots me when I get to close; these areas are extinguished in a later stage of our invasion I haven't gotten to yet. Grouping up with your friends and plowing through the dailies still might not work if you are on different stages of the quest chain, but it won't keep you from interacting with each other.
Tokhand Jun 8th 2011 9:29PM
I'm really happy about 4.2. I'm about to start a new job after moving and it's the summer and while I do like 'endgame', I like playing more. I don't want to start some new class and character and do similar things from a different perspective. I like my main's class and abilities and playing them in brand new places with new goals is awesome.
I am really on board with the Firelands the same way I was excited about Quel'Danas (and (sort of Wrathgate). That I'm playing I really like with limited time but actually doing something.
Huzzah!
DarkWalker Jun 8th 2011 10:18PM
Nice. If something like this was in place since the start of Cataclysm, I might (emphasis on might) still be playing WoW today.
Still, I don't think this would fulfill my wishes for a few reasons:
- "Extensive randomization". I read it as "the RNG will send your way the quests you hate most". What should I say, I HATE most RNG elements in the game.
- Fun toys. Thanks, but no thanks (at least until they are taken out of our bags; I don't really feel like collecting anything that will reduce my storage space in the end).
- The way character power is mentioned feels like it will be just a little boost. Which does not start to answer something I see as a quite big problem: with the absolute disparity in capability between fresh 85s and raid geared toons, any combat content tuned for fresh 85s will be a snoozefest for raid-geared toons. It would be different if the solo content could be used to get characters good enough gear to face Firelands' normal mode, but I really doubt this will be the case.
It's a step in the right direction, sure. But, for me, it might still be too little, too late. Besides, I'm not really willing to give another try at the game until I can be fairly sure I will be able to queue, as a DPS, for a random Heroic and have my VP in 30 minutes or less.
Khirsah Jun 9th 2011 1:26PM
1. If you don't like the dailies the RNG throws at you, you can skip those.
2. If you don't like your quest rewards, or they are taking up too much bag space, you can delete items, sell them on the AH, donate them to your guild bank or another player, or start a bank toon.
3. Solo efforts are designed to gear you for normal dungeons. Normals are designed to get you geared for heroics. Heroics are designed to gear you for raiding. And one raid is designed to gear you for the next. This is the way it has to be. However, when they introduce a new tier, they make the old tier more accessible so that it is always possible to catch up, if you want.
Another way to look at it: the gearing issue is nothing new. The gear you got at level 10 was designed for you to be able to use it while level 11, and so on. To say that soloing should net the same gear as raiding, or that you should be able to gear enough for raiding just by soloing is the equivalent of saying level 10's should be rewarded with the same gear as level 20's, or that there should be a way to conquer level 60 content at level 50, just because you don't have the time to do those other 10 levels.
That is not how the game works, nor should it be. And if your real life works that way, I'm sure anyone here will trade with you.
noel mcleod Jun 9th 2011 3:17PM
@Khirsah
I don't think I agree with you, and I think there are a lot of other people that don't agree with you either. You can quest with friends or not - I prefer to when the opportunity presents. You can run dungeons with friends (guildies) or not - again, given a choice I will run with guildies (and since I have two tanks they generally will run with me). But I can always PuG an instance if no one is on. RAIDS, on the other hand, can NOT be PUGGED unless you have huge amounts of free time (in which case I'd have the time to raid with a guild). This is the current frustration for a lot of people - commit to a grueling schedule of "work" raiding very "Tuesday/Thursday" if RL permits, or forget about seeing that content until the next expansion.
Or, join a huge faceless guild where you don't know anybody in RL - hmmm, that seems a little counter-intuitive ...
DarkWalker Jun 9th 2011 4:27PM
@khirsah:
I was basically telling why, though I see this casual content as a step in the right direction, I'm not thrilled with this update, and it will not, by itself, sway me back to WoW.
Random quests mean I get to do the ones the game has randomly chosen, not the ones I would like to do. And I don't trust random choices in the least. For me, at least, this diminishes my enthusiasm with the new quests quite a bit, as I'm not guaranteed to be able to do the quests I actually would like to do.
I don't care about any collectible items that take space in my inventory. While I love collecting anything that does not have any drawbacks - mounts, pets, titles - I won't collect anything that takes inventory space. As it is, I already had a lack of inventory space, and was often juggling mails between alts to make up for it. So, if it's something with novel or fun uses, but I have to waste an inventory slot on it, for me it might as well not exist, they are just wasted development effort.
The bit about the gear is because, since those dailies will most likely be tuned for fresh 85s, they will be boringly easy for any raid geared toon.
Lastly, comparing with real life is not really a good idea, more so when you think about rewards, gear, and randomness.
Tell me, how many sports do you know where gear makes a big difference, and where the best gear can only be bought by players that had already obtained good results?
Apart from games, how many real life ways you know for gaining valuable items that hinge on dumb luck the way raid drops and rare drops do?
How many desirable items do you know that can't be obtained in a solo way - i.e., items that a talented, self-employed person can't ever hope to get/buy?
Games often add extraneous grouping requirements and random factors to make things more "interesting". Which is quite unfortunate for me, since I don't like being forced to group (although, given the choice, I will often play with other players), and I really hate when games use dumb luck to determine my character's fate, with no chance for me to influence the result beyond getting the chance to "roll the dice" in the first place.
Khirsah Jun 9th 2011 5:01PM
@Darkwalker and Noel... First, I should have explained that I am looking at this from the point of view of someone that has real life commitments that have basically reduced me to a pvp only player in Cata. With a 1 year old baby, it is tough to be able to get 90 minutes free to wait for a dps queue and then run a dungeon. When I do have that kind of free time, I usually spend it sleeping. :)
I share your frustration with not being able to see or participate in the end game content. However, those that do have the time and lack of real life commitments to devote so much time to a video game deserve to have those efforts rewarded. Those rewards come in the form of better gear and getting to see the best content before we do.
After re-reading my previous post, I was not very clear, or polite. Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed or something. Anyway, my point is only that there are already ways within the game to customize it for the more casual player. When 4.2 drops, you'll be able to get the current tier gear easier, and that will be good enough to get you into firelands, if time permits. With people taking summer vacations and stuff, I'll bet you can fill in for absentee raid members for a few weeks, again as time allows. And since they are not counting on you to be there in the first place, you get to be the hero that filled out the raid group without commiting to what amounts to a second job.
While I would not be opposed to "one man instances" as others have mentioned on this thread, I am not going to hold my breath for Blizz to implement that. But there are other avenues for the more casual players to see end game raiding content. Running bg's and converting your points is a recent example of Blizz trying to do just that. It may take us longer, but we can get there, so come back to the game and we can be scrubs together! :)
DarkWalker Jun 10th 2011 9:26AM
@khirsah
I'm not likely to return at all for solo content, unfortunately. I purchased a few other MMOs since leaving WoW, a couple lifetime subscriptions even (though I don't know if Free Realm's one I got for $15 count :P), and even though for the most part they are not as polished as WoW, for solo play they do have a very big advantage with me: I haven't been playing them for the last 5 years.
In WoW I've done most things that could be done solo, both Horde and Alliance. I've an Alliance Loremaster, and a Horde character that was close. I have played the starting game experience with all races and classes, both before and after Cataclysm. I have a pair of Violet Proto-Dragons. The characters I cared about have maxed professions (except Archeology; high travel time + random rewards = I won't play).
Besides, someone should have told Blizzard that, when the questing experience feels just like watching a movie - even if it's a good movie - the replay value is also the same as watching the same movie again. Even though it was too linear, I somewhat liked the new questing experience the first time, but I can't bring myself to do it again.
Taking that into account, until I feel like I can start gearing and raiding in WoW again, I won't return. For me, the addition of a daily quest hub like the Firelands one was too little, too late. And, for me to return to raiding, I need to be assured two things: that I will be able to gear up for raids by playing 30-minutes chunks during the week, and that I will find weekend raids, either by finding a place in a permanent group in need of a Holy/Prot Paladin (I doubt my tank spot in my old guild is still there after almost half an year), or enough PUGs forming I can be assured of raiding most weeks.
Without this I will not return, or at the very least not until the next expansion. The only reason I didn't leave during WotLK was because the LFD allowed me to gear up for ICC in 30-minutes chunks of playtime, and due to that I was soon scouted as a second tank for the core 10-man raiding group of a quite nice weekend raiding guild.
Rob Jun 8th 2011 10:43PM
I like this idea that they are putting out more content for non-raid type players at end game. Its fun. I think i will come back at least for a bit to do firelands and to get some cool hunter pets. But all things end, they can only design so much content. Wraith was pretty bad for casuals who did solo stuff. There wasn't much until the tourney, and dear god that was boring. What the world could use is more feel of realm events like AQ gates, but maybe smaller scale. One thing I like about Rift is that all the time there are these events going on. But usually they are pretty ho hum, slaughter some enemies. No big deal. I want something in between the ho hum rifts and super epic once only events.
DirtyFr4nk Jun 8th 2011 11:24PM
I think that questing is fun and interesting but I wish they could make the explanation of the quest more interactive. The current tl;dr text page doesnt do it. I think most people click 'accept' without even reading the word accept. Sure you can make the text scroll on (I assume that feature is still in the interface options area), but it is not enough in my opinion.
There is nothing better than a quest which starts a cut scene as soon as you click accept, or even an NPC starts to sprout speech bubbles (as you look at your map for the direction you need to head for your quest), explaining the quest details.
I know not everyone likes that, and they really just want the action or the rewards, not the details. But wouldn't it be great if there was a tick box which turned them on or off. Instead of 1 dialogue exchange per quest hub (if you're lucky) and 1 cut scene per zone. And wouldn't it be great if it were easier to stack mastery as a warrior tank. (A little off-topic but damnit it's frustrating)
DarkWalker Jun 9th 2011 4:39PM
I was at first skeptical of DCUO's voiced quest text, but now I really like them. In short, all quests have just a 2-3 lines text explaining the objectives, but as soon as you open the questgiver pane, he starts explaining the quest. Even better, if you accept the quest and close the window, you still continue to listen his explanation, meaning you can listen to the quest "text" while on your way to do it.
It actually enables me to enjoy the full "wall of text" quest explanation while moving between quests as fast as if I had completely skipped the explanation. And I love anything that lets me reduce my wasted time when playing a game, makes me feel like I can actually accomplish more in less time :)
BooCat Jun 8th 2011 11:34PM
The game begins at 1 and only at 85 if you been there already.
VioletArrows Jun 9th 2011 12:32AM
I'm going to look on with caution. It only took me a month and a half to run out of things to do this expansion as a casual who got bumped down from heroics to no dungeons at all. And at this point, the way dailies are thrown around as if they're the main event (oh hai kill 10 rats 5 different ways), it's not *that* inspiring. Unfortunately I can't take a look at the PTR as he suggests; I'll likely just wait a month or two after it's released.
Still pissed about the spiders, though. ¬_¬
(My guild must be sick of my coming and going like there's a revolving door there.)
TonyMcS Jun 9th 2011 12:36AM
I find one thing about questing annoying and that's daily quests that break immersion.
I don't have a problem with Kill ten rats as a daily as you are essentially just thinning out the enemy. But the rest of the NPCs seems to suffer from memory problems. That poor lady who gave me the same sword everyday in WotLK lamenting no-one visited her. Now I'm in Tol'barad, spiders - fine, crocodiles fine, citizens and people - why not? But why am I killing the same Problim, mage, warder, shark and the various lords over and over again?
The only dailies that totally make sense are the Uldum ones - again just thinning the herd.
Of course this is not restricted to quests as much the same illogicality occcurs in dungeons and raids and it's all connected with a desire to change the world permanently.
The random selection of dailies in Tol'barad and presumably Firelands mitigates the effect somewhat, but it's still a pain.
Puntable Jun 9th 2011 10:23AM
I hope there are more dailys like those in Twilight Highlands (Except the Beer Run!). I like when the NPCs actually DO something besides stand around waiting to be killed. Also, any dailys where you can complete 4 quests by killing stuff (and picking up stuff) in the Same Area gets a big thumbs-up in my book.
Astoreth Jun 9th 2011 3:28PM
I find "Glop, Son of Glop" terribly amusing for this reason. Even if it does suggest uncomfortable ideas about the longevity and reproductive habits of stone troggs.